Epic is turning off Master servers for UT99 & UT2k4; UTX Announced - What To Do?

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TankBeef
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Re: Epic is turning off Master servers for UT99 & UT2k4; UTX Announced - What To Do?

Post by TankBeef »

sektor2111 wrote: Mon Dec 19, 2022 5:53 pm Me one I don't get the point of this topic in UT99 stage
Sektor, the problem is not just the master servers. If it were just that, one would not really mind that much, because of all you said. I agree.
The problem is that, apart from that, the game is being delisted from online stores. It feels like they want to erase history, a key milestone in online multiplayer. This is one of only a handful of games that paved the way so that these companies could get filthy rich from microtransaction buying teens, and now they want to pretend that it did not exist. :noidea
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Re: Epic is turning off Master servers for UT99 & UT2k4; UTX Announced - What To Do?

Post by OjitroC »

The_Cowboy wrote: Mon Dec 19, 2022 7:26 pm
sektor2111 wrote: Mon Dec 19, 2022 5:53 pm ...
Finally, someone who speaks English and understands version control!
I think you probably need to explain that a bit more - it's not clear to me that sektor said anything about version control (other than that this forum is largely, but not exclusively, concerned with UT99).
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Re: Epic is turning off Master servers for UT99 & UT2k4; UTX Announced - What To Do?

Post by Red_Fist »

Leo(T.C.K.) wrote: Mon Dec 19, 2022 12:54 pm I still don't get the punchline of the two maps joke. Like is that referring to something or some practice specificaly?
Or is it just random? In that case it is..pretty stupid.
Oh, I don't want to muck up the thread, it just means they can't stop the servers till my maps are done.
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Re: Epic is turning off Master servers for UT99 & UT2k4; UTX Announced - What To Do?

Post by OjitroC »

TankBeef wrote: Mon Dec 19, 2022 7:42 pm
sektor2111 wrote: Mon Dec 19, 2022 5:53 pm Me one I don't get the point of this topic in UT99 stage
Sektor, the problem is not just the master servers. If it were just that, one would not really mind that much, because of all you said. I agree.
The problem is that, apart from that, the game is being delisted from online stores. It feels like they want to erase history, a key milestone in online multiplayer. This is one of only a handful of games that paved the way so that these companies could get filthy rich from microtransaction buying teens, and now they want to pretend that it did not exist. :noidea
Why would Epic want to erase history? How can Epic erase history? Are they pretending that UT99 did not exist? Does it even matter if they do or are - given that that does not affect us as players/mappers/modders, etc?

Personally I don't think there is any point in thinking about that or ascribing 'motives' to Epic's actions. They are a company driven by commerical imperatives that has, until now, maintained a service for a game that is now 22 years old with a miniscule playerbase. What other companies in other fields maintain services for a 22 year old product or continue to sell a 22 year old product in its original form?

Epic are removing the game from sale in their digital storefront - presumably because they no longer want or need to sell it. Is there any reason why they should want to continue to sell as presumably it does not make a return for them and it ties up resources that could be used elsewhere. Sadly most products have a 'life' and as far as Epic is concerned, UT99 has come to the end of its useful life for them - which does not mean, of course, that it has come to the end of its useful life for us - that is the key point, in my view anyway.
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Re: Epic is turning off Master servers for UT99 & UT2k4; UTX Announced - What To Do?

Post by Red_Fist »

Hmm, any connection ? I wonder.

$520 million I never played and have no clue of what fortnight is, just don't get it and don't plan on figuring it out either.

https://myfox8.com/news/fortnite-maker- ... socialflow
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Re: Epic is turning off Master servers for UT99 & UT2k4; UTX Announced - What To Do?

Post by Feralidragon »

I've already said this in Discord, and I am also going to say it here.

We all know that the only game that they will keep supporting, as in having master servers, online services and being available in all store fronts (including EGS) is UT3.
Not only that, but UT3 will actually become UT3X, a free version of UT3, which might or not have more than just have the new Epic back end integrated.

What this coincides with is with the scheduled release of Creative 2.0 of Fortnite, which is apparently scheduled for next month (January 2023), as in late in that month, which is exactly around the time when they will shut down the master servers for the UT series.

For those unaware, Creative 2.0 is in fact a new version of the Unreal Engine 5 editor with all the Fortnite assets, in order to create content for Fortnite itself.
Among the many features that should come with it, the main ones are:
  • a new scripting language, called Verse (they dropped UScript in UE4 in favor of C++ and Blueprint, but it seems that now in UE5 they intend to have a scripting language again beyond those 2 options);
  • the ability to cooperate with other players (creators, developers) in real time from the editor, being able to start, pause and stop a real game at any point and perform any changes live;
  • the ability to upload all created assets to a cloud storage in Epic, and then the direct ability to use them in-game and share with other players.
In other words, it's as if Epic is setting up Fortnite to be the next platform for modding, like UT once was, however due to the age bracket the game is more popular with, in the end is basically Roblox in UE5 (you can already see that if you enter Fortnite and see all the custom community game modes).

What does this have to do with UT3X?

It seems to me that they've decided bring down the master servers at that point in time because they intend to go all in with the new back end needed to support Creative 2.0, and thus they decided to just drop all the old back ends which cannot be migrated over, opening a new chapter for them, while trying to close the chapter on us.

UT3X will be free, and I've read somewhere that it might be released on March 2023 (unverified).

No one knows what exactly it will bring, but it seems to me that them removing all the other UT versions from all the stores, along with shutting down the master servers, is an attempt from Epic to have just a single UT game available, and make it so that it's a new experience, especially for those who never experienced UT at all before.

Given that they will release it on Steam, GOG and EGS, replacing all the UT games they had, by removing the other ones they ensure that players do not get confused and all converge to this "new" UT version they're about to release.
Meaning that if, by then, someone searches for "UT" or "Unreal Tournament" or other, the one they will always find for thereon is UT3X, maximizing the effect of the release and potential sustainability of the game.

In other words, they're removing the UT games that would otherwise compete directly with UT3X, and which they consider to be already "obsolete".

I believe they're hopeful that existing and old UT players will try it out and converge into that single game, however what they're really mostly betting on is getting NEW players to experience the game for the first time, with no bias whatsoever from the other UT games, players that will go in with low expectations, meaning that these players may in fact like the game, given that UT3 is not a bad game by itself, it's just a bad sequel to the UT we already came to know and love.

And it's also a way to test the market at a very low cost, using the latest UT game, a game that unlike UT4 is fairly stable and is complete, and test whether or not players are still interested in arena games like UT, which may dictate the future of this franchise for the next years.

Should they migrate the game to UE5 as well, either now or later, it also grants UT modders the same tools ("Creative 2.0") that Fortnite players will get, which may give birth to the development of UT maps and mods again.

I could be dead wrong on this, but at this time we can only speculate until we see what actually happens.



Having that said, I want to be very clear: while the master server shutdown was an eventual inevitability, I don't like the fact that they're removing the games from the stores, especially since thus far they made no attempts to contact OldUnreal for a possible way to provide the game for free (maybe already patched).

So, regardless of what they intend to do with UT3X, it seems to me that they're being very shortsighted and disrespectful when it comes to the existing community, which are the greatest fans of UT as a series, by removing these games from the stores with no other alternatives to get them.

It seems to me that it would be a much smarter move to, at the very least, allow these old games to sit with the community, in the sense that they would be allowed to provide the full game for free, but only in places like OldUnreal for example, as it would still make the game available somewhere, in a semi-official capacity, while ensuring that the search engines would still return UT3X as the first results, towards Steam, GOG and EGS.

If they did so, I think existing UT fans would be a bit more sympathetic to the idea of UT3X and Epic in general, and would be willing to give it a try, while still being able to play and download the classic ones at any time.

Therefore, if what I described above is their end game, then their actions are actually understandable, but that doesn't mean that they're correct.
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Re: Epic is turning off Master servers for UT99 & UT2k4; UTX Announced - What To Do?

Post by sektor2111 »

That's a connected issue with sales. Here probably I had a narrow point of view because I'm looking at the title of topic and I don't understand what exactly is the problem with master server - it WAS OUT X times and X+Y time, nothing exploded. This game will die at community decision, it cannot be wiped that easy...
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Re: Epic is turning off Master servers for UT99 & UT2k4; UTX Announced - What To Do?

Post by Eternity »

Maybe some just used to think this way - if the developer has stopped support and it can no longer be obtained legally anywhere, they lose interest to it, leave it immediately and most likely will not touch it anymore.
In some places, if one caught on downloading something that is forbidden to download, it may lead to quite unpleasant (to put it very mildly) consequences...

Wonder, if this is related...

In fact this (or whatever Epic theoretically may ever do with it) makes no any technical issues for UT99 at all. It will be shared via file servers and P2P services and will be hosted on a community supported servers.
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Re: Epic is turning off Master servers for UT99 & UT2k4; UTX Announced - What To Do?

Post by Diablo »

TankBeef wrote: Mon Dec 19, 2022 7:42 pm
sektor2111 wrote: Mon Dec 19, 2022 5:53 pm Me one I don't get the point of this topic in UT99 stage
Sektor, the problem is not just the master servers. If it were just that, one would not really mind that much, because of all you said. I agree.
The problem is that, apart from that, the game is being delisted from online stores. It feels like they want to erase history, a key milestone in online multiplayer. This is one of only a handful of games that paved the way so that these companies could get filthy rich from microtransaction buying teens, and now they want to pretend that it did not exist. :noidea
Teens? More like 5 year old kids.
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Re: Epic is turning off Master servers for UT99 & UT2k4; UTX Announced - What To Do?

Post by _21 »

With this I lost any semblance of respect I had left for Epic. I don't get how they don't realize that Fortnite has a narrow appeal can't force everyone to join that group.

That said, I don't care much what Epic does anymore. They didn't do anything good for U/UT for more than a decade now why should we start caring now?

I will personally keep playing UT99 even if they don't want to.
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Re: Epic is turning off Master servers for UT99 & UT2k4; UTX Announced - What To Do?

Post by Leo(T.C.K.) »

Red_Fist wrote: Mon Dec 19, 2022 10:45 pm Hmm, any connection ? I wonder.

$520 million I never played and have no clue of what fortnight is, just don't get it and don't plan on figuring it out either.

https://myfox8.com/news/fortnite-maker- ... socialflow
"This content is not avaiable in your country/region."

Also FortNite is a game that might have started as something decent but evolved into nearly cancer-like status with "seasons" and characters and crossovers.

Like the aesthetics are as if for little children while there's just so much trash that you can't keep track of. The base idea was a "last man standing mmo-like game with buildable fortresses", but as I said it soon turned into oversaturated cartoony retarded bullshit that relies on what is now being called misleadingly a micro transaction. Its as if UT had random characters like superman or power rangers in it and it would be taken seriously while being all colorful and bright and what not and...

like you're supposed to take that everything and anything can exist within the world of fortnite and...
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Re: Epic is turning off Master servers for UT99 & UT2k4; UTX Announced - What To Do?

Post by sektor2111 »

_21 wrote: Tue Dec 20, 2022 10:19 am They didn't do anything good for U/UT for more than a decade now why should we start caring now?
Bingo, now we get together. After X past outages now they will be in permanent outage. Is this even a problem ? Let's summarize a few stuff executed from 2014. NWIII, Brut, GunGame, XC_Engine, Botz, and so on - I don't see any sign that community will suddenly stop playing UT because original NOT NEEDED MasterServers are going turned off. The only stage affected is a plain install -> No GameSpy, No Epic - no servers visible On-Line.
The thing that needs clarified is how to get a legit UT Kit updated - when I'm saying updated it's not only about INI files and updated MasterServers, but I'm talking about some manuals with information for developers not just mystical colored poems.
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Re: Epic is turning off Master servers for UT99 & UT2k4; UTX Announced - What To Do?

Post by Feralidragon »

sektor2111 wrote: Tue Dec 20, 2022 3:14 pm I don't see any sign that community will suddenly stop playing UT because original NOT NEEDED MasterServers are going turned off.
I think you're not getting what is actually going to get shutdown here.

It's NOT only the master servers, the game itself won't be available for purchase and download from digital stores, meaning that from that point on, for someone to download and install the game, they will be forced to resort to piracy, if Epic doesn't provide a legal alternative.

Existing players are of course not affected at all, but every now and then we have old players returning and buying the game again, or even players finding the game for the first time.
One of the most active members in the ut99.org discord mentioned that he didn't even try out UT99 until somewhere in 2019 or 2020 (he was only a UT2004 player/developer until then).

So this does have a significant impact in how much longer the community overall will last.
It won't last forever, that's for sure, but with this move Epic ensured that the community will likely disappear 10 years before it would otherwise.
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Re: Epic is turning off Master servers for UT99 & UT2k4; UTX Announced - What To Do?

Post by darksonny »

Feralidragon wrote: Tue Dec 20, 2022 4:55 pm

So this does have a significant impact in how much longer the community overall will last.
It won't last forever, that's for sure, but with this move Epic ensured that the community will likely disappear 10 years before it would otherwise.
This movement contradicts what Epic tries to do with ut3x, not everybody loves that ut version. Or they are trying to erase old games that they dont think as profitable or they are trying to rejoin and "reset" the series startin' by the last known version. And more confusing thing is the farewell words in their last paragraph and giving thanks to players for these years.

Not optimistic, I'm stil seeing a dick move, and as it says in spanish: "con su pan se lo coman" if they are doing things this way, they take his way players will take their ways. ITs a bussiness thing yeah, ok, im not sure people will buy anymore anything from epic coming from unreal series.
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Re: Epic is turning off Master servers for UT99 & UT2k4; UTX Announced - What To Do?

Post by TankBeef »

Feralidragon wrote: Tue Dec 20, 2022 4:55 pm Existing players are of course not affected at all, but every now and then we have old players returning and buying the game again, or even players finding the game for the first time.
Like me...
I stopped playing around the time UT2003 came out. Full stop. I started playing again mostly because of the pandemic lockdown. Now I am enjoying the game even more than when it came out.
So yeah, you never know who will discover or come back to the game. :noidea