Unreal

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Unreal

Postby Dr.Flay » Fri Jan 15, 2016 4:17 am

OK. OK. We give-in. Unreal 1 finally gets its own section
viewforum.php?f=59

To be honest this is overdue (my fault) as it has been planned since I argued for it in the staff room while Papercoffee still had a mug there.
Shade and others were always against the idea, but I pointed out that since we have Oldskool Amp'd for UT99, and several Botpack conversions for Unreal, the lines are now very blurred.
I for 1 play UT in Unreal for the extra quality of the effects and mutators, and Unreal in UT99 so I can use Chaos or Nali weapons.

For the moment I am just moving anything ported or requested for these 2 games.
It crosses my mind that as we also have later U-game resources also back-ported (such as the 2K4 Dragons) , that this new section could be included and we make the section more generic.
For the moment it is just for Unreal 1 and Single Player related posts.
Strictly speaking we should move Jacks dragons into Off-Topic, but it seems a shame to see it buried even though it is only for Unreal 227.
My hope is that by staying visible, someone may be inspired to make a UT version, even if it is with the current version of the UT-SDK.

Much has been moved into off-topic over the years, so now is a period of Unreal amnesty.
Step forward and suggest any Unreal thread you feel has been unfairly banished to off-topic.
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Re: Unreal

Postby PrinceOfFunky » Fri Jan 15, 2016 4:58 am

Dr.Flay wrote:OK. OK. We give-in. Unreal 1 finally gets its own section [...]
For the moment I am just moving anything ported or requested for these 2 games.

Uh .o. I like Unreal :D remember this topic too :3 viewtopic.php?f=12&t=6544&p=77033&hilit=+truth#p77033
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Re: Unreal

Postby MrLoathsome » Fri Jan 15, 2016 5:59 am

Yay!

I am gonna make a U1 compatible version of the FrickinSharks, and now I have a place to post about it!
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Re: Unreal

Postby JackGriffin » Fri Jan 15, 2016 6:41 am

Respectfully I disagree with this decision. Here's why...This place survived because it did one thing and did it very well: it supported UT99 and because of that became the de facto place to discuss UT99. All the new work gets posted here and it's often the landing spot for players trying to start up or create a server. Stick with that, diversification never goes well. BUF tried that and it's a ghost town now aside from off-topic. UA is completely dead.

The only real places left that see traffic aside from here (outside of clan loyalty) is Old Unreal and UnrealSP. Let them take care of Unreal, especially since the discussions around 227 are both ongoing and very specific. By fostering Unreal talk here you are going to end up posting information that is outright incorrect because almost no one posting here knows 227 or it's going to be thread after thread of "Does this work in UT?/ Can I port this into UT?" and very few who can answer that. The guys at Old are way better equipped for those answers, let them have it. You'll be helping the community at large by not watering down the discussions just to drive a little extra traffic. Unreal questions need to get referred to Old, Unreal mapping needs to be sent to UnrealSP. Every question about UT belongs here.

Anyway, just thought I'd say that.
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Re: Unreal

Postby SC]-[WARTZ_{HoF} » Fri Jan 15, 2016 8:12 am

I have to agree with Kelly. This place is for UT99.
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Re: Unreal

Postby Dr.Flay » Fri Jan 15, 2016 8:40 am

I do understand Jack, as it is more or less the argument put forward in the staff room.
But whichever folders the posts are in, it won't make a difference to search results. I could exclude Off-Topic from being searched, but then many valuable posts will be lost from external engines.

It is precisely because we are a UT99 site that the SP mods and ported projects get buried and only findable if you know you are searching for it.
You cannot search this forum for "Unreal". The hit-count is too high.

Have no fear, this is not an attempt to add more content or visitors, only to sensibly organise that which is being posted here already by various people.
The section is labelled thus;
Unreal Exports and Imports
Maps, Mods and Resources ported from or to Unreal.


It is fairly specific, and strictly speaking your Dragon project does not belong here, so-help-me I am just being nice by not consigning it to Off-Topic, as it may well inspire UT players to dig out their old copy of Unreal and try out the modern updates.
Even if they are smitten, they can install UT into it and we don't lose them to the dark-side.

I don't foresee we will gain or lose anyone over this, as long as we stick to the criteria.
If you look in the section now you will see the sort of things I mean. Leo's ported weapons packs are a good example, and requests for help with ports either way will be much easier to find.
Anything that will successfully run with Oldskool can be posted in this section.
eg. Unreal maps, models and resources.
Unreal mutators and gametypes will not be allowed because they will not function, but ports will be, or anything to do with the cross-game projects such as UTeamFix , .:..:'s Unreal+UT server IpDrv modification , NBSpecials (and more) and even some Unreal Infiltration maps can also be made to work or open in UEd2.

All that said, if the Unreal world now also gets a Frickin Shark because of this.... enough said. case closed :mrgreen:
.... although I do feel a logic-loop coming on !
The Devilfish is in UT, but from Unreal... soooo is it.... umm... did you.... oh but if... *POP!!*
My head hurts, but that is because UT99 comes pre-equipped with a huge chunk of Unreal already, and probably needs its own section.
Other than MH, who uses any of those resources ? (yes aright Loathsome, I see you waving).
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Re: Unreal

Postby Higor » Fri Jan 15, 2016 8:55 am

I am with Kelly here.

I only see one new section to be a viable add, but only when Tim decides to get rid of Galaxy and open source the goddamn engine, until then, not even "UE" is gonna be worth opening.
THEN, the board is opened and something is done with it...

Because to be honest, the amount of clueless would be coders that've got no idea what kind of improvement UT needs over at the UE forums and plan to hypothetically 'improve it' is scary high.
Would be nice to have some sanity ground on how to do that if Tim ever decides to make it happen.


======
Speaking of which... the Duke Nukem Forever approach is totally possible (it's a heavily modded Unreal Engine 1 lmao).
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Re: Unreal

Postby Hellkeeper » Fri Jan 15, 2016 10:55 am

JackGriffin wrote:By fostering Unreal talk here you are going to end up posting information that is outright incorrect because almost no one posting here knows 227


To be honest, there's a good number of people here who are also on OldUnreal.

But I think Unreal is not really UT99.org's business, that's true.
You must construct additional pylons.
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Re: Unreal

Postby papercoffee » Fri Jan 15, 2016 2:01 pm

I don't think that Unreal Exports and Imports is a bad idea... but some unmistakable rules should be implemented.
We are not an Unreal place and we shouldn't get in competition with OldUnreal and UnrealSP.
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Re: Unreal

Postby JackGriffin » Fri Jan 15, 2016 3:16 pm

Yeah, don't get me wrong Flay. I think it's super commendable that 99.org would continue to offer support and try to be helping everyone it could. The problem with that is in most ways the development of Unreal has surpassed UT. It's no a matter of changing a few things to import into UT any more. You can see that with my dragons, and I used very little of the available new things. My coop server has live chat now running with multiple server as well as teamspeak servers and no one needs to download things to do it. My number one question from new players: "How do I use this in UT?" I hate to tell them but you just can't. Smirf had added core things to the newer builds that use functionality that UT will never get. In almost every way 227 is just a superior game.

Don't anyone get offended, that's not elitism speaking. Those are just facts as they are. You have to understand that to really play in Unreal now if you want to use the newer builds. I'm running a server and actively developing for it and *I* still don't get it all. That's why I posted my Unreal work as an FTP grab and not openly on the forum. It's confusing to most people here. Do you (you being the collective 'you') know the first thing someone should ask me when grabbing the Unreal mods from my FTP? If you don't automatically know that then you shouldn't bother with them, it's that specific now.

BTW, the question should be "Are these 227 only"?

(EDIT: relevant post just made at Old):
http://www.oldunreal.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/ ... 781207/1#1
Smirftsch wrote:well, that's not so easy. Back in 2005? I think it was, I was given the NDA together with the Unreal 224, 226 as well as UT436, 451 and 468 code. Officially I was grouped into UTPG team, but with the responsibility for Unreal. Now UTPG (http://www.utpg.org/) was already quite inactive at this point of time and I continued with my "orders" to work on Unreal.
In theory I am able to make the same updates for UT, but from official side I was never given a clear answer if or if not I am also allowed to work on UT, my questions about that have been answered like "do what you've told to do". Now, since I have work enough already and don't want to lose my main project "Unreal" due to trouble with Epic I decided not to go this path without a clear and straight answer. Also there are some very ambitious projects from the community which I don't want to interfere with, like the UT99 sdk. I have no one specifically here for this UT section, so it is not the primary place for people to look for UT stuffs either, despite all the downloads and the forums here I offer for it.

What I can do is to continue updating the video renderers if needed and my alaudio sound renderer.

Phew. Hope this answers your question.


He's obviously very careful not to step on UT99's toes. The same should go here.
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Re: Unreal

Postby EvilGrins » Sat Jan 16, 2016 1:44 am

For year's I've been testing Unreal content in ut99, after I found some of it works in both games, so I'm kinda cool with this idea so far as exporting anything from all Unreal/UT games into ut99.
papercoffee wrote:We are not an Unreal place and we shouldn't get in competition with OldUnreal and UnrealSP.

May not be that big a deal. Most forums have multiple sections for various versions. When BU (BeyondUnreal) went primarily UT4 they made ut99 sections for those that still wanted to do that stuff.

Hermskii's & Hook's & House·of·Fool's, and several others, have a main section with subsections for the other Unreal/UT versions.

Bit of Doc Flay putting ut99's NW3 & TWTzombies into Unreal a stretch back: Start reading from the bottom · http://tinyurl.com/jz5ljmt
http://unreal-games.livejournal.com/
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Re: Unreal

Postby JackGriffin » Sat Jan 16, 2016 3:19 am

EvilGrins wrote:For year's I've been testing Unreal content in ut99, after I found some of it works in both games

...is the heart of the problem and it's why mixed forums for content is a really bad idea.
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Re: Unreal

Postby papercoffee » Sat Jan 16, 2016 3:39 am

Sooooo, what should we do with Unreal content in the future?
I mean ...some of them are compatible with UT and some are not.

Should we post them only in the Off-Topic section?
Why bother post them at all?
What about imports from Unreal?
Your dragon is therefore also Off-Topic for UT99.org :|
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Re: Unreal

Postby JackGriffin » Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:30 am

Let's not lose sight of the fact that Flay and staff is just trying to do the right thing here. Almost always the adage that 'any support is good support' holds true but the Unreal content becomes the exception to that rule. Unreal is a very split game now. The older legacy stuff does indeed work with UT (mostly) and to a great extent it's interchangeable between them. 227 though ushered in a new era where Unreal now has much more flexibility and core game assets. There's a dev section at Old where we can literally post a found error in the core and within no time there's a new build that fixes that error. Same with functionality requests. AND this new content is being added to the core, where it runs much faster and more stable. For developers it's a literal playground and Smirf just keeps cranking out the content.

The downside to all this is that Unreal and UT are continually moving away from each other. It's now easier to import UT things into Unreal that the other way around. I'm running several hundred MonsterHunt maps on my coop server for instance.

Anyway here's how I would answer you:
Should we post them only in the Off-Topic section?

No, I'd keep the Unreal section but clearly mark it as a legacy section. In fact I'd assign someone to test everything that gets posted there. Anything that requires later builds of Unreal I'd not allow to be posted. In fact I'd demand that anything posted MUST also run under UT. This will keep everything where it should be.
Why bother post them at all?

There's some good stuff in Unreal. By FAR the best, prettiest maps are there. Spend a weekend on my server loading some of the map series' and tell me how lost you get in some of these worlds.
What about imports from Unreal?

As long as it will translate to UT without needing third party mods like OldSkool then I don't see any issues. There's still a ton of content that goes back and forth between the engines without any problems.
Your dragon is therefore also Off-Topic for UT99.org

To be honest I should have never posted it here but you guys are my friends and I wanted to share with you. I get all geeked out and excited when things work and no one in my family or friends understands any of it at all. You guys are my UFamily and you get what I'm doing. I know that sounds like a plea from emotion because that's exactly what it is. I know it was wrong and that's why I clearly marked it as incompatible with UT. I guess the short answer is that I was excited. :shrug:
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Re: Unreal

Postby papercoffee » Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:51 am

JackGriffin wrote:To be honest I should have never posted it here

But then many people wouldn't know about it if you wouldn't have posted it here.
Not all member here are also active in the Unreal community (I don't know if I'm counting as active there)

I know it was wrong and that's why I clearly marked it as incompatible with UT. I guess the short answer is that I was excited. :shrug:

I'm just on my way to learn about UEd2.1 and have fun making my new map in it (look at the contest thread) without the worry that the editor will crash any minute. I already send a request to Smirftsch for a vector plug-in everyone could need.
If this would be implemented everyone, even UT mapper, could benefit from it.
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