Single tap dodge mutator?

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Re: Single tap dodge mutator?

Postby EvilGrins » Tue May 17, 2016 12:42 am

papercoffee wrote:I don't know ...where is the challenge in just hitting one button?

According to him, from what he's said, he's not hitting 1 button...
Ajora wrote:You simply dodge in whichever direction you're already moving. It's amazing and everybody loves it.

...he clearly states the dodge makes him go in the direction he's already headed. Which means he's already holding down a button to be moving in a direction, and then hits another button in order to do the dodge.

Basically, he's still using 2 buttons.
Ajora wrote:Doing nothing but dodging actually does slow down your movement. It took me 9.5 seconds to get from one point to the next using only dodges, whereas it took me 7.5 seconds to reach it by only running.

That makes less sense to me. Dodge makes you slower?

The already existing dodge, the quick double-tap of any movement key, makes you move FASTER. I could probably do that 9.5 in 1.3 with the existing double-tap.
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Re: Single tap dodge mutator?

Postby Ajora » Tue May 17, 2016 12:57 am

I'd like to stand fully corrected on what I said about the dodge feature making you slightly slower. I performed my initial test by rapidly jamming on the forward movement key, rather than properly timing my dodges when necessary. I was able to reduce my time from 9.5 seconds down to about 7.2 seconds, which is very slightly faster than the 7.5 second time period it takes to traverse my testing area while only running. I apologize for my error.

However, I still fully believe in and stand by the implementation of a single tap dodge button. It's done wonders for the new Unreal Tournament game and I regard it as a monumental oversight for it not to be implemented into UT99.
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Re: Single tap dodge mutator?

Postby papercoffee » Tue May 17, 2016 1:51 am

Well in UT4 it's maybe restricted with a cool down effect or a hard coded break of any kind to prevent using it solely.
But in UT99 is the "break" your brain plus your eye-hand coordination, you have to train it to time your dodge perfectly.
So ...in UT99 is no coded restriction for the dodge and if you would have it accessible through a single key plus movment-key would you be to fast and impossible to hit for the majority of player.

Skilled player can move in an insane way in UT99 but newbs can't because of the relative hard learning curve. I can understand that Epic want to lower the learning curve for UT4 to gain more player to make it more convenient for the modern-day casual player base.
But a single tap dodge wouldn't fit UT99 because of the lack of restriction ...it would be considered cheating or just unfair if this would be merely a config tweak on client side.
As a mod/mutator running on a server would this be a slightly other case. Still unfitting but now can every player use it :wink:
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Re: Single tap dodge mutator?

Postby Ajora » Tue May 17, 2016 3:07 am

There is no restriction to how often you can use the single tap dodge key in the New Unreal Tournament, nor is there any reason for it. If you're dodging 100% of the time then your movements become predictable. Unreal Tournament guru JackFrags even said in one of his highly acclaimed tutorial videos that it's a huge mistake to dodge too often.

Edit: Actually, it was Zaccubus. :oops:
Last edited by Ajora on Thu May 26, 2016 8:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Single tap dodge mutator?

Postby Higor » Tue May 17, 2016 3:47 am

Cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat

EDIT:
cheat
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Re: Single tap dodge mutator?

Postby Ajora » Tue May 17, 2016 4:05 am

That doesn't even make any sense. If every player on a given server is capable of using the mod/mutator, then it's a perfectly level playing field.
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Re: Single tap dodge mutator?

Postby EvilGrins » Tue May 17, 2016 8:09 am

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EDIT:
Sorry, couldn't resist.
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Re: Single tap dodge mutator?

Postby UT Sniper (SJA94) » Tue May 17, 2016 9:47 am

You will be banned within 5 seconds for just having it in your system playing in a server set up right. Just because you cant dodge right and need to use a cheat, doesnt mean dodging is slower.
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Re: Single tap dodge mutator?

Postby papercoffee » Tue May 17, 2016 12:07 pm

Ajora wrote:There is no restriction to how often you can use the single tap dodge key in the New Unreal Tournament, nor is there any reason for it. If you're dodging 100% of the time then your movements become predictable. Unreal Tournament guru JackFrags even said in one of his highly acclaimed tutorial videos that it's a huge mistake to dodge too often.

Oh that JackFrags?! Yeah... doesn't ring a bell.

I didn't want to say it that blunt like the previous speaker (yes even Evil Grins) but they are right.
Such a single tab dodge would be considered a cheat in UT99.
As a server side mod ...ok ...but I doubt you would play long enough online because you would be very quick frustrated 'cause of the lack of restriction.

If you like this mechanic so much stay with UT4 where everyone can use it. ;)
Btw. can you brovide us a link where this is discussed on Epic's forum. I couldn't find it there.
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Re: Single tap dodge mutator?

Postby EvilGrins » Tue May 17, 2016 3:29 pm

papercoffee wrote:Oh that JackFrags?! Yeah... doesn't ring a bell.

Quick Google · https://www.youtube.com/user/jackfrags · he reviews 1st person shooters.
papercoffee wrote:(yes even Evil Grins)

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Re: Single tap dodge mutator?

Postby Ajora » Tue May 17, 2016 7:40 pm

papercoffee wrote:
Ajora wrote:There is no restriction to how often you can use the single tap dodge key in the New Unreal Tournament, nor is there any reason for it. If you're dodging 100% of the time then your movements become predictable. Unreal Tournament guru JackFrags even said in one of his highly acclaimed tutorial videos that it's a huge mistake to dodge too often.

Oh that JackFrags?! Yeah... doesn't ring a bell.

I didn't want to say it that blunt like the previous speaker (yes even Evil Grins) but they are right.
Such a single tab dodge would be considered a cheat in UT99.
As a server side mod ...ok ...but I doubt you would play long enough online because you would be very quick frustrated 'cause of the lack of restriction.

If you like this mechanic so much stay with UT4 where everyone can use it. ;)
Btw. can you brovide us a link where this is discussed on Epic's forum. I couldn't find it there.


There's a small discussion about it here, although the thread was intended to be about wall jumping (the author made a mistake). One of the current game's developers refers to single tap dodging as "a godsend". And I agree.

https://www.epicgames.com/unrealtournam ... -tap-Dodge

Another small discussion about it on this reddit page.

https://www.reddit.com/r/unrealtourname ... _to_dodge/

And a second small discussion about single tap dodging on reddit.

https://www.reddit.com/r/unrealtourname ... tap_dodge/

"That was incredibly annoying, and seems like a terrible design choice." Referring to the old school method.

The new Unreal Tournament seems to be shaping up fairly well, though it has a really long way to go and I'm personally not too fond of the current weapon models.
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Re: Single tap dodge mutator?

Postby papercoffee » Tue May 17, 2016 9:40 pm

Ajora wrote:One of the current game's developers refers to single tap dodging as "a godsend". And I agree.

I have read it ...but I have to correct you DDRRE is not a developer like YemYam or Flak. He is a contributor who got a special tag because of his engagement for this Game. :wink:

I don't say that a single tap dodge has no place in the UT-franchise but it needs to be restricted in UT99 with a delay... or as a server side mod only. If it would be just a tweak for the client would it be cheating.
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Re: Single tap dodge mutator?

Postby Ajora » Tue May 17, 2016 10:16 pm

papercoffee wrote:
Ajora wrote:One of the current game's developers refers to single tap dodging as "a godsend". And I agree.

I have read it ...but I have to correct you DDRRE is not a developer like YemYam or Flak. He is a contributor who got a special tag because of his engagement for this Game. :wink:

I don't say that a single tap dodge has no place in the UT-franchise but it needs to be restricted in UT99 with a delay... or as a server side mod only. If it would be just a tweak for the client would it be cheating.


I fully agree that it should only ever operate as a server side mod. Possibly with a delay. Sorry if I wasn't clear about that.
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Re: Single tap dodge mutator?

Postby JackGriffin » Fri May 20, 2016 1:31 pm

I'm with Higor.... and I'm also a purist. If you are going to substantially alter the movement of the players then you fundamentally alter how the game is played, especially in PvP matches. Just a couple of tweaks makes it a completely alternate version of UT.

BTW, don't miss out on his reference to JackFrags. I watch almost no TV and very little YT but I watch everything Jack puts out, especially his vids with Frankie:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxbivv ... WrLQHGHQyw

They play a lot of FPS shooters but put the scenes together into a coherent storyline. Stuff like 'delivering medicine to the refugee camp'. There's no camp or refugees but it makes a fun backstory as they strive to reach the 'goal' and it often goes over several stringed videos. Jacks is a super engaging guy and although he plays Jerry Lewis to Frankie's Dean Martin I've found Jacks to be really, really smart in some things he discusses in his videos. You get some history, philosophy, academics peppered into his videos and it makes them interesting to me as someone who has no interest in Twitch-style content.
So long, and thanks for all the fish
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Re: Single tap dodge mutator?

Postby EvilGrins » Sat May 21, 2016 1:17 am

STANDARD FORWARD DODGE GOODNESS!
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JackGriffin wrote:although he plays Jerry Lewis to Frankie's Dean Martin

Ye Gods... you are so old!
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