MAJOR bot-pathing request

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MAJOR bot-pathing request

Postby EvilGrins » Wed Dec 28, 2016 11:19 pm

Realistically nobody may actually have the where-with-all to do this (certainly not in 1 sitting) but just on the offchance...

http://www.mapraider.com/maps/unreal-to ... aarj-Tower

...I'd like to get that bot-pathed.

Playing on my own at home I can never beat that map, have beaten it with others playing online before but it's hard to find any server that's got it going in their rotation.

It's not like this map...

http://www.mapraider.com/maps/unreal-to ... astle-2012

...which I've also never beaten, but that's more that to a certain point I can't figure out where to go next.

That last one has bot-pathing to a point, which is good for initial stuff but not in the helping me figure out where to go next sense. Really, a lot of the time bot-pathing is handy on LARGE maps for when you get lost you can follow a bot that actually knows where it's going.
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Re: MAJOR bot-pathing request

Postby Hitman » Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:44 am

Have you tried doing it yourself since its not that hard, open it in the editor and paste this command in down left were it says command PATHS BUILD auto create pathnode network - opt=1
then press enter and the editor will freeze up for 20 sec or so and have created a grid with pathnodes over the hole map, when its done go to top Build/Build all, it will work for 20 sec more then save it (with a new name)
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Re: MAJOR bot-pathing request

Postby EvilGrins » Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:43 am

Hitman wrote:Have you tried doing it yourself since its not that hard

Well, it's the holiday season. So it'd be like a gift.
Hitman wrote:open it in the editor and paste this command in down left were it says command PATHS BUILD auto create pathnode network - opt=1
then press enter and the editor will freeze up for 20 sec or so and have created a grid with pathnodes over the hole map, when its done go to top Build/Build all

Okay... I'll give that a try, but most people have said in the past to not do that kinda thing cuz it overpaths and bogs down the memory and stuff.
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Re: MAJOR bot-pathing request

Postby sektor2111 » Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:20 am

Hitman wrote:Have you tried doing it yourself since its not that hard, open it in the editor and paste this command in down left were it says command PATHS BUILD auto create pathnode network - opt=1
then press enter and the editor will freeze up for 20 sec or so and have created a grid with pathnodes over the hole map, when its done go to top Build/Build all, it will work for 20 sec more then save it (with a new name)
Veeery bad move... I would not count on Editor for such things, especially because you cannot force a retard to drive a plane, else Editor will not add paths on Lifts which seems a problem for more people nowadays because it's so... "hard" :loool: . Editor can even do paths through LavaZones unlinked by itself and multiple nodes in location or node by node spamming map with trash.

Next: If I well recall map is based on those many teleporters and it will need some special stuff for preventing Bot being retarded, looping around - never doable with Editor. If Bot has to be in charge for this mission, then we need a bit of stuff because map's end doesn't make sense if I well recall. You search monsters and you will not kill all of them when map suddenly ends without a special goal.
Making bot to roam for monsters is a heavy mission, probably an MBot + XCGE will get a hand in problem but I cannot be that sure, because MH is not a DM.
EvilGrins wrote:Really, a lot of the time bot-pathing is handy on LARGE maps for when you get lost you can follow a bot that actually knows where it's going.
I would not count on that. In large maps is easy to break DevPath - See LostInTime V3 if you need a memory refresh.
The only best thing is to have good paths and to use (my waves now) REMEMBERSPOT and SHOWPATH original stuff rammed properly by UTPG (they fixed my ass - and not even that) in order to get out of map's nowhere-area.
My primary tests from 3 years ago were a failure - map has a looping spot right near start. Bots ordered to cover me were looping useless doing nothing, and lifts have nothing in common with paths :barf: . By doing all paths properly I'm afraid to not mess DevPath and then Bot support using triggers drives to no cover player and very hard to get into some points and it will be an insane load probably lagging as hell.
I might hit a try a la 2016 given my little experience in mooing at Engine toward DevPath...
Last edited by sektor2111 on Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MAJOR bot-pathing request

Postby EvilGrins » Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:36 am

sektor2111 wrote:Veeery bad move... I would not count on Editor for such things

Regardless of my misgivings, I tried it anyway. It didn't work very well, because the map, as it happened, has pathing... it just sucked.

So I deleted the existing pathing, went with Hitman's suggestion, and then saved 2 versions from that: Build & Build All.

The big problem is all pathing seems to be (for whatever reason) on the right of things. Bots run up right side of staircases, bots hang to the edge of ledges on the right. Right, right, RIGHT...

...and even with that, bots don't get much further (even when following me) than to the top of the stairs and just a bit into the first tunnel.

le sigh...
Last edited by EvilGrins on Thu Dec 29, 2016 4:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MAJOR bot-pathing request

Postby Higor » Thu Dec 29, 2016 9:36 am

Bot guy at your service.
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Re: MAJOR bot-pathing request

Postby Eviltom » Thu Dec 29, 2016 9:44 am

Basic pathing is really simple, just add path nodes along paths you want the bots to take. When you start adding objectives and things it gets more complicated.

But if you just want the bots to follow you just add your own nodes. After you press "build paths" make sure you check the 3d view and set it to show paths and make sure everything is joined up.. Then in game command the bots to "cover me" they wont show you where to go but at least you will have backup! Never use the automatic pathing tool its garbage
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Re: MAJOR bot-pathing request

Postby sektor2111 » Thu Dec 29, 2016 1:02 pm

Eviltom wrote:Basic pathing is really simple, just add path nodes along paths you want the bots to take. When you start adding objectives and things it gets more complicated.

But if you just want the bots to follow you just add your own nodes. After you press "build paths" make sure you check the 3d view and set it to show paths and make sure everything is joined up.. Then in game command the bots to "cover me" they wont show you where to go but at least you will have backup! Never use the automatic pathing tool its garbage
Look at map first, EG was asking if Bot can lead the hunt here - I have doubts in the way how this map it's being done - no goals set. No worries I have added Bot support in MH maps (+ I rewrote Bot controllers), I even have a MH pathing debugger tool, I know what I'm saying. When End is UnReachable and no Waypoints are set, all MH Bot hunt is just blabbering DM based and nothing as a mission.

Else a few weeks ago EG sent me a map for pathing where DevPath DOESN'T EVEN WORK regarding to blue lines properly linked shown in Editor. I did Bot support there using... Triggers - in this way you don't have too much cover, but they Assault map properly by themselves. It was called Garden of Life (oops Death) if I well recall. There you can try skills in making DevPath to work in a Level devastating CPU cycles properly and making DevPath to clamp in None operating, exactly like that CTF super Duper 24 hours map build for a stupid Level where all Bots are correctly retarded.
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Re: MAJOR bot-pathing request

Postby EvilGrins » Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:03 pm

Higor wrote:Bot guy at your service.

Great and powerful bot-guy, save me!
sektor2111 wrote:
EvilGrins wrote:Really, a lot of the time bot-pathing is handy on LARGE maps for when you get lost you can follow a bot that actually knows where it's going.
I would not count on that.

Oh, I don't... but until mappers of LARGE maps start including little street signs that read "This way Next" I'll go with whatever clues I can find.
sektor2111 wrote:See LostInTime V3 if you need a memory refresh.

Funny you should mention that map. I'm currently editing monster swaps on it.
sektor2111 wrote:
Eviltom wrote:Basic pathing is really simple, just add path nodes along paths you want the bots to take.

Look at map first, EG was asking if Bot can lead the hunt here

Definitely worth a look, as this map is IMMENSE. It's a converted part from the original Unreal1, so initially intended for Single-Player, but I wasn't really counting on bots to lead me around on it.

Over on Fuzzy's forum he's got a thread for MonsterHunt walkthrough guides · http://www.unrealfuzz.com/forums/viewto ... =85&p=1139

And from there, I got this · http://www.unrealfuzz.com/forums/downlo ... c134129eb2

Printed out... I know where I'm going. Just would like some bot backup is all.
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Re: MAJOR bot-pathing request

Postby sektor2111 » Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:27 pm

Primary check results:
- like I remembered, author has a lift problem - actually none of lifts are pathed and there are a lot of lifts - "Cover Me" will not be in account - PATHS are Broken at lifts (and not only there);
- some rock bridge has Nodes with no links - trying some corrections they went linked - I don't understand WTF was doing this dude there;
- definitely need a check for determining order of WayPoints needed;
- Mover79 - pretty nasty for a Bot deal without a custom A.I. trigger - also this route for covering will not be in account without a bit of coding.

Good luck with this "easy" task, EvilTom. In mean time I think I'll setup some Bot party in here using... Editor.
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Re: MAJOR bot-pathing request

Postby EvilGrins » Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:09 pm

sektor2111 wrote:"Cover Me" will not be in account - PATHS are Broken at lifts

Prior to the first attempt at auto-pathing, I played this map with bots a few times (had it for years). Cover me works okay, provided the bots are fairly close to you until you get past the tunnels to the outer caverns. After that, they kinda just jump off the edge of the lifts; by luck or bot-bravado I dunno... but as there's mostly only water below they can survive the fall easily enough.
sektor2111 wrote: - some rock bridge has Nodes with no links - trying some corrections they went linked - I don't understand WTF was doing this dude

Well, he also did Skaarj Castle (linked in 1st post) and it's pathing is decent for the initial starting area but no further than that. Could be Skaarj Tower was one of his 1st UT maps, as according to his bio he also made the original Unreal1 version too.

This is him · http://www.mapraider.com/profiles/DREW2

Kinda wanna check his other work to see if he got better.
sektor2111 wrote:Good luck with this "easy" task, EvilTom. In mean time I think I'll setup some Bot party in here using... Editor.

Map comes with updated spawnpoints and one of the trickier parts is that it opens a portal at the top of the stairs in the main room from which all the tunnels connect to. Trickiest thing is to get the bots to go into that portal, I think.
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Re: MAJOR bot-pathing request

Postby sektor2111 » Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:36 pm

The trick at portals is exactly reversal, trying shortcut through inactive teleporters and doing nothing - because there are teleporters there, portals are just movers, teleporters are there all the time and probably too close each-other. Aside if you go on some tower top, Bot won't reach there using ground navigation - I have to figure Teleporters functionality else everything will go borked. New stuff from XCGE helps me in sequential debugs without special mutators at this moment...

Else if you survive around castle - from spawn location to that point I'll bet that Bot won't find you unless some teleporter is active nearby else in Spawn location there are looping spots heading nowhere. I did a few probes and I got bad results, at least bridge doesn't have BSP bugs as I was thinking... that area can be done with paths but fore mentioned mover from a tower might be a nasty thing due to access type required. I have figured where I need first WayPoint for probing 1st stage.
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Re: MAJOR bot-pathing request

Postby Higor » Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:30 pm

Map can be so easily pathed, my greatest effort will actually go into figuring out where the objectives are lol.
Easy task.
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Re: MAJOR bot-pathing request

Postby Chamberly » Fri Dec 30, 2016 12:34 am

Yeah, Higor have a mind of a bot as well so he knows what to do, just tell what need to be done lol. :P

I'm picking on ya (Hig) lel
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Re: MAJOR bot-pathing request

Postby sektor2111 » Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:03 am

Then To do:
- Teleporters inactive yet are still creating paths but "specialhandling" deny them (Bot is messing up there like a dumbass - is a route and not a route), LOL EPIC - I have to write a cost control for teleporters else I wouldn't count on Bot attack today... see what I mean at teleporters zone aka portals - at a moment you have to unlock them alone if Bots are dying killed, because they will roam around teleporters doing nothing (shortest route there) - see what I mean - I got idea what to do, but not right now - now I go to sleep because is getting late;
- Lifts have to be pathed and TWEAKED read posts above about a nasty lift having lever not that handy - there is needed some stuff or simply creating a waiting point until player unlock something needed - or that route it's a need (not played all yet) and... some work around is required for making Bot able to deal there - I did such stuff for crappy buttons in other 2 maps - both of them are working, eh...;

I cannot say it's hard - mainly map has some paths - it's about custom stuff because I'm not sure if Bot will head hunt at how map is being done. Aside Pathnodes (ALL) can be lowered a bit for linking that Bridge properly and some triggers needs ONCEONLY setup...

Note: MonsterEnd cannot be found - it seems to have a high position and no nodes around - I have added nodes there, but still are needed a bunch of lifts linked. This dude was clueless at Lifts chapter...
I did not say that it's impossible Bot Support, what I'm trying to say it's need more work and more testing - I have now to abuse my MH tested toy.
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