UT99 online gaming latest years - bad impressions

[Dizzy]

I think that mentioned high tick rate and speed is intentional - because it makes some of them extremely fast. Will not give here names, but generally, almost everyone experienced sees what is going on.
Considering what I said about incompetence: what to say, when server gives you text: your fire speed and game speed is to high, please correct them and reconnect. - Sure, now all fast players will lower their settings
I will look those links when will have some more time.

I read through the entire thread and actually I'm not sure I understand your complaint.

I run BT servers where timing is very important and I've never known anyone to complain about other players being too fast except when their netspeed is too low which can be controlled via mods such as AntiNetHack.

The demo files you've posted don't work on my UT - could you record them using software like ShadowPlay or Fraps and post them on YouTube please?

[TammT]

I read through the entire thread and actually I'm not sure I understand your complaint.
I run BT servers where timing is very important and I've never known anyone to complain about other players being too fast except when their netspeed is too low which can be controlled via mods such as AntiNetHack.
The demo files you've posted don't work on my UT - could you record them using software like ShadowPlay or Fraps and post them on YouTube please?

BT servers ? What game is it ? And I don't think that we need to talk about other games. This is about good ol' UT99 in year 2017.
Demo works not by you probably because you don't have that map installed. I could do video with Fraps and put it online, but that's too much hassle. Instead, did another one, on popular map Agony. If you don't havi it in your MAPS dir, should know how to get it and install. If still works not, maybe to update UT to latest version.
http://www.mediafire.com/file/z2gun7eazag4lge/c2.rar
There is only one demo, but I changed Netspeed during game couple times. Started with lower, then changed to LAN at Rocket Launcher spot. Very well visible how faster became. Then changed back to slower, back to faster couple times.

I will try to explain it in short, for the last time. UT99's probably biggest flaw is inproper speed control. It is tied to video V-sync in offline play, and to tick rate when play on some server. But beside tickrate netspeed has influence too. Then, speed control is done partially by testing CPU speed at start. What makes huge troubles on notebooks, desktop computers set to cool 'n quiet and like. Total not clear why they did not just use some accurate timer for that purpose, as is done in every decent game.
Well, that still would not resolve speed cheats online, of course. Therefore speed check on servers is necessary. Unfortunately I was not able to see it, so have no clue is it used, where, how successful. There is not much server where I can play so-so good - on most I'm too laggy, slow . How some can play with ping over 200 is total unclear for me. When I have something about 150 it's total disaster. May be that my provider cheats with ping - it shows not real lag, because packet transfers are with more delay, and worst, with variable delays,

[Carbon]

BT = Bunny Track, a very popular game type for UT.

Yes, you have again described the problem, so why not try writing something that would be in the direction of a solution? A clear question even. 3 pages in and nobody clearly understands what you are looking for...why do you suppose that might be?

[TammT]

BT = Bunny Track, a very popular game type for UT.
Yes, you have again described the problem, so why not try writing something that would be in the direction of a solution? A clear question even. 3 pages in and nobody clearly understands what you are looking for...why do you suppose that might be?

Sorry, but I wrote what is the solution: " Therefore speed check on servers is necessary.". It is possible, and probably it already exists on some servers:
If player runs, server will see how much he moved in certain time interval, and if it is too much for given gamespeed it is cheat - really not complicated.
In same way can control speed of redeemers, teleports. I don't know how Rocket Launcher reload goes exactly - is it all at client, or server gets info at every new rocket loaded - but that's just one more thing where they are too fast.
Btw. I talked about server - with Newnet, which asks player to lower his settings which affect speed, when detects too fast fire speed. So, it can check it, but coder working on it has some serious issues about knowing people - who will lower his speed just because is asked for, and from computer SW ? So, another solution would be to explain him what works with people, and what not. Or to look for another coder.
Did you watch demo ?

[Carbon]

No, I didn't watch the demo. No need really.

So you need to explain human nature to server masters and find a coder. There are a number of people here who have the skills, but so far it appears they aren't worried or interested.

Best of luck with your mission!

[Barbie]

If player runs, server will see how much he moved in certain time interval, and if it is too much for given gamespeed it is cheat - really not complicated.

What about running on a moving brush? Or flying around with jets or R3? Or using relics?
Sounds not so easy any more...

[JackGriffin]

It's not nearly that easy. Because of the ancient nature of the netcode and the fact it was designed to function with dial-up modems there is a metric ton of prediction code built into the engine. Want to see what I mean? You only need to simply compare a player running on the ground with an alt-guided redeemer flying over his head. The player will appear smooth and normal while the redeemer appears herky-jerky and not at all smooth the closer you look. Both the player and the redeemer are doing the same thing but there's a ton of prediction code that smooths out the player's movement so it looks cleaner.

I've plotted exact movement before on players running across an open map online. You'd think it would be a consistent velocity, however it's anything but that. Players rubber band a ton, it's just in very small increments.

Anyway I'm blathering on but I can simply say that distance-versus-time used as a rule will not work. This is due to all the fluctuations that exist in tickrate, netspeed, packet loss, etc. The best way to deal with speed hacks is to watch the netspeed of the client and poll the processor speed like ACE does. If the client is changing either of those on the fly then they need to be removed.

[sektor2111]

It would be a hard work for tracking everything. Last time I have installed on tablet a sort of diagnostic program for looking at hardware. One thing distracting me - this is the new way of doing hardware, it was a dual core CPU with speed stepping processor - "enemy of UT" as I can use this term. When tablet was running mainly nothing, CPU 2 was idling and CPU1 was running at around 500 MHz. When Tablet has started processing both Cores went active at 1300 MHz - not to forget 64 bit operating.
Given the new way of power saving and hardware features from nowadays, this old engine has to be rewritten... BY WHO ? Because it looks like this new hardware architecture makes life harder for old software a la UT.
Who is in charge to do this in legal terms ? Yeah, a wreck still hangs on copy bullshit stupid rules from Ice Age... Nobody ? Reason ?
If a new UE1 will be coded, a lot of players will quit playing more or less borked versions and will return to UT99 - I can bet on that. And if Editor would be a bug free one... I will not wanna know the number of UT99 players in future - but this is at dreaming stage...

[TammT]

No, I didn't watch the demo. No need really.
So you need to explain human nature to server masters and find a coder. There are a number of people here who have the skills, but so far it appears they aren't worried or interested.
Best of luck with your mission!

Yes, lack of interest is one of main factors. What really bothers is attitude of server admins.

What about running on a moving brush? Or flying around with jets or R3? Or using relics?
Sounds not so easy any more...

I just gave basic concept.

It's not nearly that easy. Because of the ancient nature of the netcode and the fact it was designed to function with dial-up modems there is a metric ton of prediction code built into the engine. Want to see what I mean? You only need to simply compare a player running on the ground with an alt-guided redeemer flying over his head. The player will appear smooth and normal while the redeemer appears herky-jerky and not at all smooth the closer you look. Both the player and the redeemer are doing the same thing but there's a ton of prediction code that smooths out the player's movement so it looks cleaner.
I've plotted exact movement before on players running across an open map online. You'd think it would be a consistent velocity, however it's anything but that. Players rubber band a ton, it's just in very small increments.
Anyway I'm blathering on but I can simply say that distance-versus-time used as a rule will not work. This is due to all the fluctuations that exist in tickrate, netspeed, packet loss, etc. The best way to deal with speed hacks is to watch the netspeed of the client and poll the processor speed like ACE does. If the client is changing either of those on the fly then they need to be removed.

Yes, netcode is outdated indeed. Fluctuation is here, and I'm sure that in my case that's the main problem with my connection. Some averaging can resolve it, I guess.
How you meant that netspeed watch, and what actions to perform ? ACE indicates it, indicates tickrate too, and what is use of it ? Only that people see it. Speed differences are there. Client can change netspeed when is not connected to server.
How can server poll processor speed of client ? That can be fooled easily on client side, I'm sure.

It would be a hard work for tracking everything. ...
Given the new way of power saving and hardware features from nowadays, this old engine has to be rewritten... BY WHO ? Because it looks like this new hardware architecture makes life harder for old software a la UT.
Who is in charge to do this in legal terms ? Yeah, a wreck still hangs on copy bullshit stupid rules from Ice Age... Nobody ? Reason ?
If a new UE1 will be coded, a lot of players will quit playing more or less borked versions and will return to UT99 - I can bet on that. And if Editor would be a bug free one... I will not wanna know the number of UT99 players in future - but this is at dreaming stage...

Well, as client computers gone faster, server computers gone too. There should be enough power for all necessary calculations, trackings.
Doing new UT99 would be nice thing. Actually, it is done already in couple cases. So, we have so called multi core release, what resolves some speed problems - for instance it will not run faster offline with V-sync off. Or will be not too fast online with it - funny thing is that one admin pointed on it to me (I knew about it for years, but did not use it) .
So, we actually already have UT99 with proper speed control (may be not 100% in all cases, I did not test it much), and we are back to what is told here already: how to make people using it, and more important: how to check is it what really running ?

[sektor2111]

Speaking about ignoring things. We have some news, that so called XC_Engine which works in big parts. Amazingly, I found last time at least 3 members joined and saying that they have no clue what is that because G00gle did not show anything - bullshit lies. G00gle, as I've proved by showing a ScreenShot as evidence, is pointing even version of XCGE. Yes, Carbon, we have coders working at news and less admins care about. Here I'm completing some need for PC operating guides needed by admins who think are admins just because they own a server and not because they can really manage that. See redirects, see maps sorted and all. I see admins unable to configure an old MApVoteLA13 after years (we are in 2017 btw) - How do they will manage the rest of things like a pro anti-cheat and logs ?
Only by reading "Servers" section you can see "troubles" posted. Admins need tools, if you give them tools they will not use them because have blue color or some butterfly in ass - "reasons". There are server tutorials which nobody is reading because we have to post some post through forums asking dumb noob questions.
At this moment for me is more productive to prepare a beer with lemon than reading crap from "server-issues" threads.

[Higor]

Yes, lack of interest is one of main factors. What really bothers is attitude of server admins.

UT modding could have been so much bigger, and this is 1/2 reason why.
UT can be updated in any way possible and Quake is proof of that.

The other 1/2 reason? The developers are busily engaged in their neverending quest to kill the franchise.

[TammT]

Speaking about ignoring things. We have some news, that so called XC_Engine which works in big parts. Amazingly, I found last time at least 3 members joined and saying that they have no clue what is that because G00gle did not show anything - bullshit lies. G00gle, as I've proved by showing a ScreenShot as evidence, is pointing even version of XCGE. Yes, Carbon, we have coders working at news and less admins care about. Here I'm completing some need for PC operating guides needed by admins who think are admins just because they own a server and not because they can really manage that. See redirects, see maps sorted and all. I see admins unable to configure an old MApVoteLA13 after years (we are in 2017 btw) - How do they will manage the rest of things like a pro anti-cheat and logs ? ....

I did not look into some forum section dedicated to admins, but generally have very bad experiences with many of them. It is not just their lack of computer knowledge, but overall bad attitude. One banned me just because I used taunts (voice messages, parts of UT99 from start) . And his server was usually deserted. There are some servers in Hu, which are deserted over years, I did not see player on them really over 1 year. No bots, when you go there you can only run and shoot walls. I contacted admin with some simple suggestions and he said that it is his server, etc ... OK for me, if he likes it as is - empty - it's his right. But real problem are those who do nothing against cheat, and that's not only because they are not skilled with setting server.
And back to speed problem - yesterday seen some extra fast UK players on ...De server. One of them claimed that he designed one map on which played. I believe he is. But whole game was total crap, because he was way too fast, way to accurate. Nothing new, could someone say - yep, I just bring it as example for: there are people who want to make gaming better, more fair. But there is lot of them who don't want it, and they even work on undermining efforts of first ones - because they like it as is. That's the real problem here.

[esnesi]

speed issues on servers

The most valueable information is the configuration of the server where you notice these issues.

You have these issues on every server you play?
The NewNet 0_9 servers where you noticed less issues, did they have XC installed?

You mentioned;

it uses Newnet 0.9, and when I was first time there, it was really much better than on most server. They did lot changes, experimenting there. But all time I complained about different speeds there. Some player were much faster, and even my speed could change, even in middle of one match.

It was positive, but after a while you saw players with different speeds again?

[TammT]

...

it uses Newnet 0.9, and when I was first time there, it was really much better than on most server. They did lot changes, experimenting there. But all time I complained about different speeds there. Some player were much faster, and even my speed could change, even in middle of one match.

It was positive, but after a while you saw players with different speeds again?

I talking that my speed changes in middle of one match, and you come with that question ????
If some players speed changes in middle of match, so on same map it means only one thing: that whole system is bad, flawed. And in my case it was worst with Newnet 0.9x .

But I will not talk about it more - this leads nowhere.

Let's see from aspect of fairplay - how people which have obviously faster speed reacts when someone notices that they have advantage with it:
Most common reply is that they are not faster, that it's BS and like.
Second most "popular" : it is skill
I remember only 2 cases where it was not like above 2:
One said that he has very fast computer and fast connection - and that could be actually true, even if then I did not thought so. But when I said that playing so is nonsense he did not agree.
One Dutch player did not complain, although did not specifically admit that he is faster - he said that will rather leave when sees me.
Now, what can say after it - how the Hell that no one could not say simply - yes, I'm faster, I run faster, my fire is faster ....
Why is that people think that when is better in something it is all their merit ? And when is worse, then it's some other's. connection's. etc. fault.
Why most of players and even admins is not aware about basics of UT99 multiplayer ? Which must be basically same as for most of multiplayer games.
I see newbies jumping in, who barely know maps, and then they think how they good players are, while whole thing is just that they are way too fast. And they vote always for maps where high speed is most benefit.
Really fair players are rare nowadays.
All in all, I think that I need to lower my expectations. Or google for better planet

[sektor2111]

All in all, I think that I need to lower my expectations. Or google for better planet

So to speak I read your posting... but as you can see, here was started a rain with questions like these things are truly rare or false thoughts, Even by googling "Speed hack UT99" probably more results are shown. By keep asking "Where ? How ?" I can only see how much ignorance exist... You, guys, are funny... Evidences are so... closer... debated and... forums not read - as usual.

[attachment=0]WhatAreThese.PNG[/attachment]

Now what ? This is what G00gle knows - yeah, speed hacking is not a true thing, G00gle is bullshitting for sure...

Perhaps response is simple, creating a logo texture which is not supported by that Render in order to crash moron intended to speed hack using that d3d render, as a first measure... using a default skin which is crashing d3d loser (oops, typo mistake - user)... So my solution might be a "karmic" one, until some guy(s) will come with proper updates... probably never...
Else a mod spawning a temporary pawn with Ivan skin in front of new player - Speed hacks using old render ? Good night ! Check your desktop - it's an order.