Semi-sorta coop-ish but not: model request

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Semi-sorta coop-ish but not: model request

Postby EvilGrins » Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:54 pm

Is there any way to make a Warlord player model that flies?

Kind of like how you can play as any monster in coop games, except I'm talking for standard gameplay outside of coop.

There's an existing Warlord player model, but it doesn't fly... which seems kinda pointless as it has wings. Also it doesn't allow for team colors.

So it would need to be able to have team color options too.

Thoughts?
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Re: Semi-sorta coop-ish but not: model request

Postby SilverSound » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:35 pm

You could just make it a custom pawn. I think I know someone who's been messing with custom pawns for a while.
I'll show him your question.
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Re: Semi-sorta coop-ish but not: model request

Postby Ðàrk-_¦_-Ñìght.: » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:20 pm

I'm guessing none of you ever seen MCoop2 and yes there is a UT99 version and as far as I know that version worked just fine even online last I played it back in 2004~ish.

You can make the default Warlord mesh usable by players but you have to completely re-write the entire animation functions as they do not have the same labels traditional PlayerPawn's rely on.
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Re: Semi-sorta coop-ish but not: model request

Postby EvilGrins » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:09 am

Ðàrk-_¦_-Ñìght.: wrote:I'm guessing none of you ever seen MCoop2 and yes there is a UT99 version

I know, I have it. That's why I specified "outside of coop". Part of why I asked, coop Warlords aren't team colored.
SilverSound wrote:You could just make it a custom pawn.

Not looking for a custom pawn, I'm looking for a player model.

Got a custom pawn for one now · https://unreal-games.livejournal.com/116951.html

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I'd like a non-coop model that can fly and be team colored.
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Re: Semi-sorta coop-ish but not: model request

Postby JackGriffin » Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:43 pm

How are you going to handle weapons? There aren't animations for any of those in the warlord. If you just want to "be" a warlord then yeah it can be done with not a lot of hassle using the mcoop framework but if you want to be a normal player that can get and use weapons besides the cannon the warlord has then it's going to be exponentially more difficult. You most likely have to create a system where the warlord uses the same cannon but the projectile changes depending on the chosen weapon. That will be very tricky to pull off since animations will need to be sped up to match a minigun (for instance).

My opinion is if you pursue this you force some sort of default rocket for using the mesh. If you can fly that's a huge advantage and it ought to be countered by a weak offensive weapon.
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Re: Semi-sorta coop-ish but not: model request

Postby EvilGrins » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:11 pm

JackGriffin wrote:If you can fly that's a huge advantage and it ought to be countered by a weak offensive weapon.

It wouldn't be like the RocketX or any of those other fighter plane mods. A standard Warlord doesn't really fly that fast.
JackGriffin wrote:How are you going to handle weapons?

I was kind of thinking maybe a fixed/enhanced version of this thing.
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Re: Semi-sorta coop-ish but not: model request

Postby sektor2111 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:05 pm

I think even without animations you can hold weapons - I see even other monsters having weapons but not seen - not rendered.
What was happening ? Due to unpredictable mapping stuff - pawns weapon-holders and fascinating bugs moved not fixed, I went ahead into my patchers to load nearby weapons for all Monster - No discrimination. You'll be surprised to see that they do not mess weaponry things that noticeable and even can fire weapon randomly - no joking - ScriptedPawn root has code for weapon as poor as it is, it works at random times - so monster not trooper might held weapon even if you cannot figure it. If you do not believe me I'll point finger in ScriptedPawn class:
Code: Select all
function FireWeapon()
{
   local float rating;
   local int bUseAltMode;

   if( Weapon!=None )
   {
      Weapon.RateSelf(bUseAltMode);
      ViewRotation = Rotation;
      if ( bUseAltMode > 0 )
      {
         bFire = 0;
         bAltFire = 1;
         Weapon.AltFire(1.0);
      }
      else
      {
         bFire = 1;
         bAltFire = 0;
         Weapon.Fire(1.0);
      }
      PlayFiring();
   }
}
...
state TacticalMove
...
RecoverEnemy:
...
      if ( Weapon == None )
      {
         PlayRangedAttack();
         FinishAnim();
         TweenToRunning(0.1);
         bReadyToAttack = false;
         SetTimer(TimeBetweenAttacks, false);
      }
      else
      {
         FireWeapon(); //LOL - I could see this not very few times
         if ( Weapon.bSplashDamage )
         {
            bFire = 0;
            bAltFire = 0;
         }
      }

In some evil test which I did Bot did a suicidal combat using some powerful weapon, monster was not right into a good spot and then got weapon. Next round was leaving me with mouth open, Slith fired a Redeemer (usually having problems) killing me and other bots around and... itself as usual for A.I. because I was tweaking default redeemer for Skaarj usage and right now all pawn can use that - but for sure only Skaarj is loading weapon correctly - I mean AMMO load. Now I think I'll drop some codes in ScriptedPawn which I'm using in order to see pawns loading weapons with ammo as Skaarj does, I guess it will be some nasty war around, lol, but I'm not concerned, probably it will be more entertaining. If you were afraid of monsters for... no valid reasons so far, right now probably you'll have good reasons for retreating if you are using such new stuff.
To summarize with less blabbering from me, a player model having any mesh can hold weapons as proved by some borked MCoop... not sure about other features (I could fly playing as Bird, btw).
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Re: Semi-sorta coop-ish but not: model request

Postby JackGriffin » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:44 pm

But many of the weapons have firing code tied to the animations. I'm not sure how that's going to work in real world play. How is it going to use something like minigun?
EvilGrins wrote:It wouldn't be like the RocketX or any of those other fighter plane mods. A standard Warlord doesn't really fly that fast.

It may not fly fast but it's a major advantage. You can easily reach a defensible position that standard players can't see. It's like giving a trans to just one player in a DM match.
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Re: Semi-sorta coop-ish but not: model request

Postby sektor2111 » Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:07 am

If you look well at code, animations are not specified so is nothing to do like an animation problem, else creature has weapon but you cannot see holding it. In some tactical move situation a rocket or other projectile is fired unexpected. I was removed by an Instant Remover II suddenly fired by a SkaarjScout which usually has no weapon...
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Re: Semi-sorta coop-ish but not: model request

Postby EvilGrins » Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:15 am

Regarding the speed thing, having played extensively against Warlords for years... they're not faster than a standard redeemer.
JackGriffin wrote:How is it going to use something like minigun?

It basically points and shoots, using its own cannon but more rapid recoil.
JackGriffin wrote:It may not fly fast but it's a major advantage. You can easily reach a defensible position that standard players can't see.

I see 2 scenarios:
1. Ideal circumstance to have if you're the admin, in-game but superior to all (use your powers for good instead of eeeeevil).

2. If you're hosting games you take the advantage out, you let anyone who plays your games play as a Warlord too.
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Re: Semi-sorta coop-ish but not: model request

Postby JackGriffin » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:42 am

sektor2111 wrote:If you look well at code, animations are not specified so is nothing to do like an animation problem

But you are talking about S.Pawn and not PlayerPawn. That has code in it to mimic weapons but this warlord would require all the playerpawn connections because it would be a player. That's different than allowing the player to control a scriptedpawn like MCoop does. If he only wanted to puppet-control a warlord then it wouldn't be too tough but making it a true player means you'd have to fulfill the required animation set as well as figure out how to deal with the 3rd person weapon. It's not impossible but it's not going to be very pretty.

And we haven't even gotten to dealing with PHYS_Flying as a playerpawn yet. That does some weird things to collision.
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Re: Semi-sorta coop-ish but not: model request

Postby Leo(T.C.K.) » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:57 am

The thing at the mcoop2 thing for UT is that you can use it outside of coop....
That's what he was talking about. Plus you might be interested about the extra muts I did on killerbee's request that help things.

PawnShrinker and ShrinkerPlus (and its updated version).
Go to unrealtexture.com/Hosted/Leo_T_C_K/oldstuff to find these. It will allow you to be able to shrink by command and spawn shrinked. This is crucial to warlord as he won't spawn on many maps if you play as him.
This will make it possible to spawn on maps that will otherwise crash.
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Re: Semi-sorta coop-ish but not: model request

Postby sektor2111 » Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:53 am

I don't want you drive crazy with my notes, but... I think "State Flying" can be properly written... and then I can imagine what I can do as player in NsDM. My enemy will not have many spots to hide unless map is a really bad one. Trust me, in my insanity at studying Paths seeking chapter, all I have to say is that pawn flying has definitely a lot of power at this point.
Why ? Because he can reach at goals using "current locomotion methods" which means not many restrictions. You can fly in any point. I could figure this in a MH map where Bot could not move to End objective but Me flying I could see paths, then was asking "WTF ?" When I switched back to walking - good bye paths. Aside from locomotion recalls, I don't know if Warlord has a deal with water - by playing as bird I was almost stuck at touching water, definitely physics here have to be checked well. Hey EG, don't you think it's time to do some modding since you have these fantasies ? You can bring them alive exactly as you want.

Probably 3rd person weapon is doable but... I don't know what animation is available at this point in Warlord until you want to modify mesh accordingly - this is not my chapter.
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Re: Semi-sorta coop-ish but not: model request

Postby JackGriffin » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:15 pm

sektor2111 wrote:Hey EG, don't you think it's time to do some modding since you have these fantasies ? You can bring them alive exactly as you want.

If only he were someplace where people could help him learn every step of the way. Someplace where all the tools were available, often discussed by the people who made them or use them the best. Someplace searchable that will quickly answer "How do I...?" and then he could feel that surge of excitement when he sees something he did on a random server.

Man, I wish we had something like that.
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Re: Semi-sorta coop-ish but not: model request

Postby sektor2111 » Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:49 pm

JackGriffin wrote:Man, I wish we had something like that.
50% is in forums 50% means sample creatures already done - even borked ones are an educative sample about "do not do like here".
Warlord work is not hard but - there are bunches of details:
- knowing TP animations VS Warlord animations;
- looking at functions calling animations and replacing strings with warlord's one;
- states work around - cheat flying replaced with flying because it's almost the same;
- setup key for default fire - creature can fire itself + melee attacking + landing as needed - immunity at landed in high speed (I did not see warlord crushed by a long fall);
- in case of missing certain animation, replacing using a default one available from mesh;

Biography: MCoop (probably half of job is done there) - UTPT (decompiling some code) - UEditor (mesh browser) - NotePad++ (good editing), Umake (easy compiling).

My desire around this task = on a 5 scale is from 0 to -10.
Reason:
For me this is like cheating - gates from some maps are going pointless if you can bypass them without to work for that by just flying. Pupae pawns are no threat for such a pawn, you can take a shit on them from air and they cannot do anything about that.
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