An attempt to improve UT99.forum's atmosphere.

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Terraniux
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An attempt to improve UT99.forum's atmosphere.

Post by Terraniux »

As we all are guilty to human habits, in our way of speaking and acting, we expresss them in words, literal text.
Text is confusing and yet clear as black and white. We are all victims of our emotions sometimes, yet our uncontrolled desire to type the right thing makes us feel good.

We all want the same same. : A nice -- feel good -- trusted -- UT.org forum :agree1: That is our horizon.

So here is an attempt, in response to Jacks topic ' new mapper classes'
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=12621&start=0
Spoiler
This run of half-finished, overly simple maps that are getting posted isn't going to help the community. There needs to be a support system that a new mapper can enter into and be comfortable in asking questions and getting guidance. I think it would be great if someone took the lead on this and asked to be the go-to guy for mapper questions.
And my response that I would try to come with a plan:
Spoiler
What to do about this?!

So let me be the first, to say.

I may have a plan and a possible solution for this, Jack. :thuup:
I'll present it as soon as I can. :!:
Note: Before responding to this topic: Jack, only mention tried to come up with a possible solution and it went from bad to very ugly. Please post calm and do not argue in any way please!
As I is too, trying to post a solution to increase the experience more happy-way-like.


1. "Index users"

Admins / mods should gather a small list of people that are mapping, coding, designing stuff. Make a big fat obvious link of this in the top bar with links.
Also, people should sign up for this, if they are not on it. So people know who to contact.
Providing also content, in a few sentences like:

FeraliDragon created the great NaliWeapons series! A must have mod for any UT genre.
NogarDilaref created the amazing Kullrena! Check it out!!!! amazing map!
JacKGriffin is a great coder ! Ask him any any question concerning coding!
Higor " is a great coder ! Ask him any any question concerning coding too!
PaperCoffee is a die hard vetaran mod, admin and great desiger in all form of art!!
Terra creates a lot MH ......
Sektor is a god almighty when it comes to PC STUFF AND CODING AND BACKBONE stuff,....

etc....

etc....

These are just suggestions..... , BE KNOWN FOR YOUR SKILL!

2. Make the forum more graphical.
Add a simple image gallery, also add plugin like a 'online whiteboard' or 'shoutbox' were people can draw things on and leave it behind.
Entering the website and not only seeing TEXT, will attract players more to stay longer and check out things. The whiteboard may be misused but this should be experimented with first
Present this nicely. ---> SHOW CONTENT!!! :highfive: :highfive: :highfive:

3. Skins
Allow users to change skins of the forum board. This is a nice and clean one but offer the public a couple of skins!
This is optional of course.

4. Use a post confirmation

This one might be :mad2: :pfff: when seeing it, but it may help when it says: Are you sure your post is positive? Don't start any fights. Yes, or No.
People think twice.

5. Provide more content

We people should provide more content.
If people are too busy, perhaps more topics with existing stuff that people should share and try out!
This motivates people more to fire up the programs! like UED!

6. The game is from 1999

We are TOGETHER THE CONSCIOUSNESS that expand the life of UT.
Either be part of it, or go away .
Share any negativity to your BRICK WALL, OR YOUR PEN. Not in your posts.

7. There are not stupid questions

Answer any questions nicely, regardless of existing topics or posts. Don't be a smartass.
Be patient and be ready to LISTEN.
-------

My fingers hurt of the typing, and tried to share my mind with the purest , honest and fine intentions. :thuup:


I hope this plan helps, and works out. If not, Let me know what you think of this. :agree1:



Discuss!
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Re: An attempt to improve UT99.forum's atmosphere.

Post by papercoffee »

Terraniux wrote: FeraliDragon created the great NaliWeapons series! A must have mod for any UT genre.
NogarDilaref created the amazing Kullrena! Check it out!!!! amazing map!
:lol2:
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Re: An attempt to improve UT99.forum's atmosphere.

Post by Feralidragon »

Well, for anything to do with changing the forum in any way, shape or form, allow me to link you to a relevant post of mine from years ago:
viewtopic.php?f=33&t=5234#p57165
this holds as true today and it held back then, so you may as well forget anything to do with forum enhancements, so I am not even going to comment on those, although some of them do sound interesting.
Shade has all the power, uses none of it. He's maintained this place up for many years, with some help from the community, and that by itself is awesome for sure and that contributed a lot in keeping the community going, but anything beyond that is just not gonna happen, not from him at least.


So, having that said:

1. Index users: While I understand your point, I believe most of us do not want to be the "line of support" for UT99.
We all help in what we can, but when we can in our own terms. That means if there's a post asking for help, while there's an expectation for help to come, there shouldn't be an expectation from whom it will come from.

Also that would create a potential situation where the simple opinion of an "index user" would automatically hold more weight, or would be the only person contacted when others could help out the same way.
Therefore I think that simply making a new topic or post asking something, unaware of who's going to reply, and then someone, anyone at all answering it, is still preferable.

5. Provide more content: While more content helps, it has to come from the heart.
What I mean with this is that content should be made for fun, or with prospects of having fun with it, and it should be willing from the person, and not a chore.
Otherwise that results into empty low quality content just for the sake of content, which is worse imho than no content at all.
That post from ShaiHulud with that server plugin is a solid example of the good kind of content that is very welcome.

6. The game is from 1999: Not sure if you are talking about the drama, or just about people saying that the game is dying or is dead or whatnot.
About the drama is easy, there are rules and paper is active on the hammer, as for the negativity about the game itself, that's inevitable as long as the game remains with a really faint heartbeat as it is nowadays, although that constantly repeating the obvious fact doesn't really help anyone, so on that I agree with you.

7. There are not stupid questions: Yeah, this one is very relevant. Certain community members failed to understand something as basic as this, and when they were called for it, they just went away, eventually. This is just my opinion, but no matter how much a person is able to contribute, creating an hostile environment is something that should not be tolerated.


Having that said, I also have my own plans as I mentioned previously, and I will soon make a post to provide more details about them, after I finish a few more preparations on my side first.
But it's all potentially long-term stuff, although it does address a lot of the issues you raised, but I will add more details later, and it doesn't detract any way from actually improving this place, so yeah, whatever can be improved now, should be improved.
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Re: An attempt to improve UT99.forum's atmosphere.

Post by Terraniux »

hm.................. hmm............... interesting. :thuup:
thanks for the wise words FeraliDragon. :thuup:
Yet there is this:
Ok, let me "double ask" / " mirror " this statement :
1. Index users: While I understand your point, I believe most of us do not want to be the "line of support" for UT99.
We all help in what we can,
So a new person signs up UT99.org -- and finds this link / your name with --"Help and support users UT99" ( I just made that up)

And he reads ---> I know the great NW1,2,3 series or that great map of his> ( YOU), And he knows you are the big time effort coding, or mapping and a nice guy too, and he contacts you!
With the question: Can you help me? .

I can understand your POV "when everyone asks your help", you get annoyed at some point.
But the honor would be greater right? :agree1:

The moment you help the guy at the TOPIC OR THE PM, you expand the LIFETIME OF UT, and this forum.


Just a small list / topic with indexed users with their SKILLS. whether 1, or 2, or 5 . I think this will help big time! :thuup: :thuup: :thuup:
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Re: An attempt to improve UT99.forum's atmosphere.

Post by Feralidragon »

I honestly think that is the wrong way of thinking about things.

To start with, that erroneously presumes that only because I did some mods, I am able to help said person, which may not be true.
In my own case, even if we do not take into account at all that I have been out for years, and thus my knowledge on things is still a bit hazy (something said user wouldn't know), my own knowledge and ability to help will always be limited, even concerning mod making to some extent, since the game has plenty of stuff that I didn't even look at yet.

Then you brought up another interesting side to this which is the annoyance.
We're all human beings in the end, and we all are busy people I believe (some more, others less), and honestly I do not mind for people to ask me help directly, but I certainly do not want those requests to funnel into me, especially when there are other people who can help out, and likely who can help more than I ever could, so it would inevitably become annoying, even though it wouldn't be the users fault (because they don't know of course).

Furthermore, allow me to tell you about something which actually happened: while I was away, some guy at OldUnreal posted there about something I said years ago, some kind of opinion or something I had back then on the game or so, I don't recall well what I said.
Over the years, what I said was proven to be inaccurate or wrong altogether, and Jack/gopostal tried to say to the guy exactly that, and provide him more correct information.
However that guy pretty much assumed that Jack was wrong by default, simply over the fact that he knew about my work, but didn't know about any of Jack's work, which then someone told me about it (I don't remember whom), and I was forced to login and intervene, and essentially say something akin to me being wrong and for him to listen to Jack instead.

It's nice to an extent for some people to hold my opinion high on some matters and to seek my help or whatnot, but it's VERY unpleasant when others try to honestly help, providing more accurate information, and get brushed off to at least some extent, or even being prevented from helping altogether. I personally do not like that at all.
This sort of practice would only promote elitism imho, which is the opposite of what we should actually do.
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Re: An attempt to improve UT99.forum's atmosphere.

Post by Terraniux »

Feralidragon wrote: It's nice to an extent for some people to hold my opinion high on some matters and to seek my help or whatnot, but it's VERY unpleasant when others try to honestly help, providing more accurate information, and get brushed off to at least some extent, or even being prevented from helping altogether. I personally do not like that at all.
This sort of practice would only promote elitism imho, which is the opposite of what we should actually do.


hm.........hm.....hmhmhmm....... true, true, true.... Yet Elitism is not the example here.

but!
My experiences share me, that when people see a mirror, they "KNOW". When they close their eyes, they KNOW. When another person tells them, they don't know.
YOU fill in the gaps....

....
Ok, if you would re-write my numbers or add an 8th " suggestion", Feralidragon, what would your ' rules ' be? or be done?

Please share :thuup:
Last edited by Terraniux on Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: An attempt to improve UT99.forum's atmosphere.

Post by papercoffee »

Feralidragon wrote: This sort of practice would only promote elitism imho, which is the opposite of what we should actually do.
This exactly.
We survived with our community because we have a vast and varied number of opinions cramped together in this little forum.

Even so this is highly flattering...
"PaperCoffee is a die hard vetaran mod, admin and great desiger in all form of art!!"
It's also untrue.
I'm just the only comic/character artist on this forum. Tomorrow could a person join who is much better in all form of art.
And why " in all form of art"? I can't make music or sculpt. And my acting isn't worth mentioning. :mrgreen:

ps.: my name is written in lower case :wink:
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Re: An attempt to improve UT99.forum's atmosphere.

Post by Terraniux »

papercoffee wrote:
Feralidragon wrote: This sort of practice would only promote elitism imho, which is the opposite of what we should actually do.
This exactly.
We survived with our community because we have a vast and varied number of opinions cramped together in this little forum.

Even so this is highly flattering...
"PaperCoffee is a die hard vetaran mod, admin and great desiger in all form of art!!"
It's also untrue.
I'm just the only comic/character artist on this forum. Tomorrow could a person join who is much better in all form of art.
And why " in all form of art"? I can't make music or sculpt. And my acting isn't worth mentioning. :mrgreen:

ps.: my name is written in lower case :wink:
hehehe
Well, I just typed a few suggestions. I don't know the full story of you all.
I just know know names and their related work. just ideas.

The reason I typed is "indexing" is not be some elite thing but to credited and be know for your skill, regardless of your grade.

Again this is all just an attempt, correct me where I am wrong. 8)
At the end of this discussion I am sure we found the solution :thuup:
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Re: An attempt to improve UT99.forum's atmosphere.

Post by papercoffee »

Terraniux wrote: The reason I typed is "indexing" is not be some elite thing but to credited and be know for your skill, regardless of your grade.
But we already have something similar. The Honoured Member list. :wink:
You wouldn't be mentioned there (and get a green name) if you won't have much impact on the community with your behaviour and input.
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Re: An attempt to improve UT99.forum's atmosphere.

Post by Terraniux »

papercoffee wrote:
Terraniux wrote: The reason I typed is "indexing" is not be some elite thing but to credited and be know for your skill, regardless of your grade.
But we already have something similar. The Honoured Member list. :wink:
You wouldn't be mentioned there (and get a green name) if you won't have much impact on the community with your behaviour and input.

aha gotcha!



I don't ask for "formal" name or a green jelly tag.
This is UT99 forum dependant.


Just a page with a LOT OF NAMES, with skill and recognitions.
This affects THE WHOLE UT WORLD!

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Comon, ................ rarrrrhhhhgg... . Ok im off to bed.
Tomorrow is another day.



But nice to see, yet so far no fight or argue has occured! :thuup: I think we are on the good way here! :mrgreen:

Till tomorrow. MHHOAAAARRNNSSSSSZZZZ>
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Re: An attempt to improve UT99.forum's atmosphere.

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Re: An attempt to improve UT99.forum's atmosphere.

Post by XaNKoNII »

Well this post is wholesome. What a great contrast to what I´ve been spectating lately :wtf:
People sharing ideas and arguing back and forth being constructive and staying true to the argument (not getting overly emotional), makes me feel wholesome in my heart.
Honestly I don´t think I have much of an opinion regarding what´s been exposed here, I do however believe the tension we all felt lately was a mere temporary fase that sadly happened, so maybe it´s still not enough to cause big changes? :|
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Re: An attempt to improve UT99.forum's atmosphere.

Post by Higor »

Big changes out of 3 newfags sperging out and not behaving?
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Re: An attempt to improve UT99.forum's atmosphere.

Post by Hellkeeper »

I don't think any of the suggestions in the first post of this topic can change anything except for the last one. It's mostly a matter of people being too harsh or outright agressive from the start which creates this tensed ambience. People should just calm down, and that means mods and so on being much tougher when someone begins to show hostility. Harsh criticism is fine, being an asshole about someone's work is not, except when the creator is obviously disregarding everyone and everything.
On the other hand, I wholeheartedly support the suggestion made in another thread of people posting screenshots of their work when they release something, unless it's impossible to convey through pictures. Maps, skins and most muts/mods can be illustrated easily enough, attracting a lot more players and testers. That would make the forum much more "graphical", instead of this whiteboard idea which, in my opinion, is frankly unnecessary.
You must construct additional pylons.
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Re: An attempt to improve UT99.forum's atmosphere.

Post by Feralidragon »

Terraniux wrote: but!
My experiences share me, that when people see a mirror, they "KNOW". When they close their eyes, they KNOW. When another person tells them, they don't know.
YOU fill in the gaps....
I am sorry, but I honestly have no idea what you mean with this.
Terraniux wrote: Ok, if you would re-write my numbers or add an 8th " suggestion", Feralidragon, what would your ' rules ' be? or be done?

Please share :thuup:
Here's the main problem with the overall UT99 community: most still believe to this day that things will improve through improving the forums themselves, or even create more forums.
It does not work.

While improving the forum in some way does help a little, in the end it doesn't make that much of a dent on things overall.
So, as far as my own opinion goes, the only things that can actually be improved in this forum are of a technical nature that only Shade has the power to perform, such as fixing the things which are broken (like the first mobile experience), have ways to make posts better and simpler (that youtube tag isn't as flexible as it should, we lack proper inline code tags, we don't have image slideshows like in some places as you mentioned, etc), use something else other than the default phpBB theme, etc, etc...

As far as the actual people go, just like others said in this topic, me included, the rules are thus far sufficient, and the moderators should just enforce them.
Whoever posts here usually gets some level of help, most discussions do have activity in them, and so on... and apart from some past drama here and there, things are overall nicer right now, so as far as people in a forum, I think everything is fine.

More than this falls outside the scope of a forum, and that's what I am going to talk about hopefully between today and tomorrow.
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