Why not take new U4 Engine and make an own UT4

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Why not take new U4 Engine and make an own UT4

Postby blackcrack » Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:07 am

Hi,

so an UT 2018 now .. out from the Community ..

if i see the whole energy there by UT99.org and the loosing on Epic's Forum,
why not take over the Open Source Code of U4 Engine and developing by self further
under the roof of ut99.org and make it so far independent from Epic.
They have cry around, they need the help from the UT-Community and at end do they are mess around .

So, why not brunch the code and make it own, all updates can later make as patch to Epic once and
the UnrealTournament Community have the hand about the further developmented* code ..

and therewith, why not an own tread/Forum on this , for the developer, gamer and modder .
Therewith it is also possible to create and upload many different Skins in size and color ,
also the whole "force" in work together, i have see manny things on homepages who can use
in UT4- levels like plants, Chairs and hut's and other things, so "the internet of the things"
in this case, the one from Unreal, who extra build it for unral 4.x engine..

if i see something like in the Movie, could it be happens to comes all together again
https://www.epicgames.com/unrealtournam ... her/page63
and work there together ..
The energy/the peoples for working together exist, but.. have not a well "working together engine"
therefore and this could be happens there in the UT99.org Forum, because, there it is fun behind and the right
community, without "backthinking" (hintergrundgedanken) easy just for fun and as Hobby where it is the most power behind..
but on Epics Forum have we are together not the right access and administration, because it is a commercial Factory, and now..
no updates for the softwatre and the most power it is put in in an other game insteat to UnrealTournament how
it should be .. imho.. because, the UT Community have bring the whole from epic again to roll on..
and now, we are on the try ground.. suuupper(in negative way)..

that should be just a suggestion now for thinking about and speak about too..

so, what do you meant ?

do you want to put up with that ?
or do you like that ?

best regards
blacky

stronger-monsterhunt.de
blackysgate.de


*sorry for my bad english !

edit: change the heading,had something confused ;)
Last edited by blackcrack on Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why not take new U4 Engine and make an own UT2007

Postby Hellkeeper » Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:38 am

Your idea is to do the same thing UT4 tries to do but without professionl support from Epic.
I don't see this happen.
People interested in such a project are probably already contributing to UT4.

I'm curious as to why you used the name "UT2007" which was the working title of UT3. :D
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Re: Why not take new U4 Engine and make an own UT2007

Postby Feralidragon » Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:47 pm

Because it's illegal.

Only because the engine is open and the new UT4 is supposed to be a community effort, doesn't grant anyone the right to create their own Unreal or UT game.
At most, the only thing that can be done legally, is to take UT4 and then port UT99 to it as a mod, which is legal as per their last EULA update where they grant the usage of all resources from a previous UT game into a newer one.

Other than that, no one can do a thing without getting a C&D letter from Epic or worse.
So no, it cannot happen.
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Re: Why not take new U4 Engine and make an own UT2007

Postby Hellkeeper » Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:15 pm

Yeah, that too.
Although if you don't use the words "Unreal Tournament" in your game, you can potentially make something similar. Case in point :Toxikk, which is a carbon copy of UT2004 using UE4 with absoluetly nothing different from UT2004 except that it sucks.
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Re: Why not take new U4 Engine and make an own UT4

Postby blackcrack » Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:27 pm

Hi :)

an C&D letter, what is this ?

and because the Name, They have maybe the rights for the 2 words Unreal + Tournament but not as Unreal only or
maybe Unreal LLL (as ultralarge or something other ;) ) because the word "unreal" is a Daily use of the word ..
so, we just have to come up with something because of the title ..

If the community use the source and use it not commercial, it is able to use, imho ..
how i have understand in the past time where was speak about .. so it is able to use the code
and create an own game, without a commerce background..

and on this, it's able to bake different mods.. who runs on this engine where is modify
maybe in this direction for have a portable engine like it was by ut99.

so and now let me show where it is forbidden to use the the open source code UE4
and create a own game as private and without an commercial background.. lines, words and the direct link on it.
I still remember that you can do that when it's not about money or make money with it.

https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/eula
(A) Allowed forms of Distribution and Sublicensing
You may only Distribute the Licensed Technology as follows:
a. => "The Product may not contain any Paid Content Distributed in uncooked source format or any Engine Tools. "
no commercial .. not illegal ..

b. Fork is possible but must be a work together with Epic ..
well,there it is ever possible for building hole for mouse (autosnapins or a patch for make it portable or something..)
a patch it is an other thing.. and can be a Foreign program where makes changes if is not directly programmed in..
only for users who want change his game via patch .. ;)
as update or what ever ....

so it is also possible to take the code, make a patch as anonym spread / allocation
and there then a mod for Monsterhunt, Tourament or Unreal .. Monsterhunt is not licensed ;) Unreal is daily word using.. and a Tournament is a Tournament ..

well, so far if it's not Commerial and it is use in the background .. and maybe at end patches used who nobody know who's programmed..
for make it portable like ut99
and if it's in the net and the enduser mus not pay for it .. it is the using not illegal..

Because the name.. hmm.. so, if we can not use the Word Unreal, s0 maybe "U!" or "Unreal Community" or "comUniTy!".. what ever, all in this direction..
and icons can taked and changed from V1 or something .. and, in different Forums of 3D and moddeling, it is give so many what can be used..
..we just have to come up with something ,, ideas, suggestions and new things founding .. out of the community..
to make it UnreaL ..


best regards
Blacky
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Re: Why not take new U4 Engine and make an own UT4

Postby OjitroC » Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:46 pm

blackcrack wrote:https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/eula
(A) Allowed forms of Distribution and Sublicensing
You may only Distribute the Licensed Technology as follows:
a. => "The Product may not contain any Paid Content Distributed in uncooked source format or any Engine Tools. "
no commercial .. not illegal ..

That doesn't actually mean what you are suggesting - you need to look at later clauses on Paid Content and at the definition of Paid Content. It simply means you can not distribute the source code of content for which you have paid - it must be part of the Product you produce using the Engine and that product must be in object code format.

Epic want you to use the Engine for commercial purposes so that you pay them a royalty - see the later clauses on this. So you can use the Engine to produce a new game - what they won't let you do is produce an Unreal Tournament game!

Note that Unreal Tournament (UT4) is covered by its own EULA and License and so regard should be had to that as well as the UE EULA in determining what can and can not be done in terms of producing or modifying UT content, etc.

Unreal is an Epic Trademark, see later in the EULA.
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Re: Why not take new U4 Engine and make an own UT4

Postby Feralidragon » Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:11 pm

blackcrack wrote:an C&D letter, what is this ?

It stands for "Cease and Desist", and is a letter/mail a company generally sends first before even attempting to sue.
It's essentially a "warning" and a formal request for the other party to cease and give up all development, to which if the developer complies and throws all work into the garbage, that's the end of it, if not, he/she gets sued.

Having that said, like others mentioned, the name is trademarked, and changing the name is generally not enough, since there are more laws surrounding it all.
Of course, these laws depend on the country, and in some countries even the concept of trademark is not even a thing, and for many of those where it is, trademarks are not applied worldwide, they are generally limited to specific regions, but it just so happens that US is almost always the first of those regions, with EU being a close second.

Furthermore, if a game is created where the name is slightly different, the weapons and their names are as well, as long with everything else, what you're essentially creating is your own game with your rules, which happens to be clearly nothing more than a ripoff from UT, and that's always what it is going to be seen as.
And if you then state "oh no, it's actually UT but under another name", prepare yourself to be C&D'd or sued.

There's no way around it.
Furthermore, UT made by the community is a colossal mistake, and proof of this is UT4 itself: even with some direction provided by Epic itself, it still ended up a clusterfuck of ideas meshed together which in no way resemble a consistent UT experience at all. Even UT3 has a better consistency than UT4 at the moment.

Everyone has their own view of what UT should be, and the safest bet would be an exact copy of either UT99 or UT2004, the only UT games deemed to be good enough overall by the community, and even then the engine upgrade would make players feel an enough big difference to state that they are different (take it from someone who did something similar first with a specific mod, and the community noticed things to be "different" when they weren't at all).
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Re: Why not take new U4 Engine and make an own UT4

Postby blackcrack » Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:06 am

hmm.. i have make the stronger-monsterhunt.de (webpage and) Rootadmin who had Killerbee give Pizzi(† by Gaming break (sleep a round into die) his avatar was stay still in the corner of the game) his servers an hand was i a rootadmin by side of pizzi, before was i short time a rootadmin by Killerbee, i know what you meant with
" it is ever something else for any who have become different gaming versions in the hand and was influenced/shaped by the game who have he gamed first.."
so, your right, i have gamed at first the Unreal 1 and had the presentation movie in the hand..
http://www.blackysgate.de/files/folder- ... ssic-ut99/ from friends over mbox ;) and i have helped with to spread it.
and i have ever say , first must be build up the Original-Version and then the extended versions like Ut99 ,
this is the right way and not first all included what's making fun, this works not.., the root of the game must be developed first,
include the Dragons (imho) .. nothing else .. so, the idea of the rebuild from the Unreal,
comes from me and not from the other where was kicked also in the Epic UT Forum..

how ever, the first problem is, to be deducted the whole workforce from UT and the 2nd to be not directly build the original Unreal with the new Engine
in Photo realistic to have a well start point again... and the 3rd problem, Epic meant this to controlling and managed what should make the Community
and also not enable to have different Avatars who be from the past Unreal's in different sizes.. but not from other games..
i meant therewith the cow's as warcow Avatar, and Skaarjs from U1/UT99 and the real one and not a poor imitation or a gossip if it,
something like the Krall, Gasbag, Slith and the Nali, they are great ... and original like it should be ..

A mix of the different Gametypes/generes be at start impossible because,
there comes a "Freaky" game out and therewith not an original who can again branch in different genres like the UT and Monsterhunt and the whole other.
http://www.stronger-monsterhunt.de/web/ ... id=servers

First mus build the root, then the branches like a Tree, a tree grow up also not with the branch at first and then to the root's..
This had Epic not understand and hat meant to take all together and let then make money out of this .. what it is totally crap.. :barf:

and in this be we are in one Opinion Feralidragon :) :thuup:

and by the way.. Epic had make it able to developing the Community his own game, but in a totally wrong way..
es ging einfach nicht schnell genug..it just was not fast enough ..
The Sugar/Honey - game Fortnite is a result of not "unreal" players and Epic is go to greedy ... this is the fail/error of Epic as Game Developer
what i see in this "BigGame" Fortnite it is easy a short hype.. where epic betrayed himself .. because they support easy not the longterm users , they support easy the short hype users and comes at end to the same result like before it start the UE4 Engine .. nothing in the hand.. but they have now betray imho the Unrealgamer and therewith long therm users..
and this is pity because, such changes/possibility's for Epic is coming never so fast, because the Longterm Unreal & UT99 Gamer have now see like Episs is in reality ..

so, and if we want a more new Version in UE should we make some, without Epic .. and maybe anonym .. this is my opinion..
Or Epic comes back and stay to his words .. up to be finish the Unrealgame and help the Old Unreal Gamers for finishing the UE4 Unreal1 Version..

best regards
blacky
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Re: Why not take new U4 Engine and make an own UT4

Postby Hellkeeper » Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:34 pm

I didn't understand a word.
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Re: Why not take new U4 Engine and make an own UT4

Postby OjitroC » Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:45 pm

Epic certainly adopted the wrong model to produce UT4 but presumably did so for a reason - not surprisingly it is a low cost (to them) approach given that the Engine is available free of charge and the only way they can recoup their costs (and make a profit) is from royalties on products that use the Unreal Engine or (as I understand it) on mods and plug-ins for UT4 produced for sale by individuals in the 'Community'.

However, that is the way it is and there is no going back - it is no longer possible to produce another UT4 using the Unreal Engine though, as has been suggested, it would be OK to port Unreal or UT99 to the Unreal Engine.
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Re: Why not take new U4 Engine and make an own UT4

Postby Higor » Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:21 pm

UT4 is being constantly tampered with by 'over-qualified' 'designers', 'concepters' and other BS titles, etc...
Do you REALLY want to see a community made UT4? :loool:

We already have the UT we want, now we simply need permission and resources to upgrade it's engine.


=======================
The only alternative to getting permission, is rebuilding the engine from scratch like these guys are doing for another game:
https://github.com/REGoth-project/REGoth

Since UE4 is up for grabs, it's a matter of downgrading some parts and adapting others.
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Re: Why not take new U4 Engine and make an own UT4

Postby Cronoloop » Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:22 am

Higor wrote:We already have the UT we want, now we simply need permission and resources to upgrade it's engine.


did someone phone polge yet for the source code? :ironic: :ironic:
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Re: Why not take new U4 Engine and make an own UT4

Postby sektor2111 » Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:14 am

Cronoloop wrote:did someone phone polge yet for the source code?

I think source-code was "accidentally lost" because I think there are very solid reasons for not being released (other thoughts of mine are going into a private debate not where Internet Bots are indexing sentences). Else I don't see any other logic explanations for not releasing an old and a wreck source-code after two decades when some of old admins and players are GONE ("Gone" in the meaning of any term).
Higor wrote:We already have the UT we want, now we simply need permission and resources to upgrade it's engine.
Almost what I need to hear. Two decades community was doing servers keeping the UT flame active and paying their part for doing servers. After all these investments, I think community has a bit of right to demand something more as long as it was a lot of work and money spent. Perhaps this work done by community should be taken in account more seriously as long as "Factory" did not move a finger for development/fixes, especially critical ones. So to speak critical problems belongs to factory and fixes belongs to community. Draw the conclusion who owns something to who, developers from community were not payed for their work after all... and their work is/was important as well after all, perhaps community should have a heavy word to say here...
Community has build anti-cheats, engine extensions, master-servers, mods, which do means work, A LOT of work...

But these are my thoughts, you don't have to think that much, carry on...
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Re: Why not take new U4 Engine and make an own UT4

Postby Feralidragon » Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:33 am

All Epic has to do is to give the green light to Smirftsch to release UT (and maybe Unreal) source code.
I would even say that no matter the clean up Epic does to the code, Smirftsch's version will still work better since he's been working with it throughout the years and modernizing it for newer IDEs and systems overall.

So it's only a matter of them willing to do so in the first place, sort out any pending legal issues (which probably aren't that much to be honest), and they would be done with it.
If a working source was released, I would probably at least attempt to help out with one thing or another in the native side, although it's been several years since I picked anything native.
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Re: Why not take new U4 Engine and make an own UT4

Postby sektor2111 » Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:05 pm

I have to mention one simple thing: when a coder (even a newbie) has a few information how do engine works and checking natives (not editing or programming C++ stuff) but UScript, stuff is doable more clear, clean and way better, else everything is a guessing work for new comers to UScript, that's why at least some solid documentation would be more helpful than nothing. For me took some time to figure several things in UScript which Engine does, by logging and testing mods a bunch of times, since by simply showing what C++ side of Engine does, everything would take less time without assumptions and X tests.
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