Unreal Tournament 469

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sektor2111
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Re: Unreal Tournament 469

Post by sektor2111 »

Respect, Higor & Anthrax!
NfoServers weren't informed about certain servers using XC_Engine and desired run-line which founder himself has modified. In 469 there are changes at natives no longer having XC_Engine compatibility, as result, server was turned into a permanent crusher crap and nothing could start it. I see 469 using certain things similar with UGold227 - I don't think these are an answer...
#1) In 469 like in UG227 command from Editor used very intensive by me "Camera Align" doesn't work properly anymore - it should align camera over a selected actor because this is needed at changing viewport rendering type and when is losing focus over a selected actor - What was the problem here?
#2) I suspect that map stripped will have a "bytes-purging" causing zoneinfo actors to look like they share the same zone (deleted iLeaf data ? Why ?)- else in UGold227 certain areas are not zoned any longer because... they don't use a ZoneInfo actor when they should have LevelInfo properties in this case.

Because I have mods using XC_Engine by default, I have no use at this time of v469. Apology for my rants but I won't remove mods and maps because of newer Engine - these servers by me are working as they are with XC_Engine and conformed stock - Titans dying from a shock-ball, lolz. NfoServers actually aren't helping me with "template replies" and changes undocumented and NO it's nothing like a new standard as long as I could manage map's navigation (changes, removals, adds) and newer "standard" is causing me to return back in the dark and no longer having these options - losing options for me it's not a standard, it's only a n00b admin assumptions clueless in all ways, some of these geniuses have never heard about XC_Engine and they cannot even write 2 UScript lines calling this extension, I don't get why NfoServers are listening and are following what are saying these "button-admins" with no knowledge about newer options for UE1 in XXI century :wth: .
Things in account as described even in G00gl3's forums: Don't fix things which ain't broken. Editor commands have to be fixed and those which were working can be left alone. Give me a builder with C++ support for reachSpecs - it won't break any server, builder can be installed/uninstalled after all.

One of answers having nothing to do with what I was asking was talking about "an UnManaged VDS". Then I must ask: What is for a Managed VDS if I have no use of it and you recommend me an answer to a question which I never asked ?
Exactly here I wanted to write ban tool using a Dynamic array because their firewall won't help due to some OS exploits... which M$ doesn't care for ages...

I'm hoping that XC_Engine for V469 won't have an XC_EditorAdds causing connections at more than 1500 UU range and impossible jumps. You can even put back Range option like in XCGEv21.
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Re: Unreal Tournament 469

Post by Feralidragon »

A quick update on a major breakthrough with 469.

In this topic, the issue of package mismatches was raised time and time again, so I raised this concern internally a while ago.

And as of today, thanks to both @Higor and @anth, package mismatches will no longer be a concern in 469 clients.
This is already reflected in the build available to beta testers at OldUnreal.

In other words, starting with 469, you won't have to rename your maps, packages, etc, since you will be able to connect to any server at all (be it 436, 451 or 469) without ever getting a package mismatch error.

The way this works is as follows: if you connect to a server, and you happen to have a different version of a package on your side relative to the server, instead of getting a package mismatch error, the version from the server is downloaded instead and cached on your side, and that's the version the game will use in that specific server.

Since the file is cached like all the downloaded packages from the server, this has no impact on your locally installed packages.
In other words, if you leave the server and you play offline, the version of the package the game is going to use is the one you have installed.

This allows you to update existing packages (maps, mods, etc) while keeping the same file name, and overall package name.

One last important note however: this is a client-side fix/improvement, and not server-side, meaning that if you use 436 or 451 to play and enter a server with (as a player), you will still get the package mismatch error even if the server is 469.
On the other hand, as long as you use 469 as your client (as a player), you can connect to any server without any issues (yes, this includes 436 and 451 servers).

So if you care about supporting older UT versions in the future with your maps and mods, you will need to still rename new releases of your maps and mods, otherwise you do not. :)
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Re: Unreal Tournament 469

Post by sektor2111 »

I think renaming might be recommended because in a plain server hosted on Windows you might not have two maps with the same file-name - a files soup it's not recommended in any case, user asking for DM-ThatMap and receiving a reply for another DM-ThatMap which is entirely different can be very frustrating to not mention discussions in a forum about one thing which is two things because two maps have the same name - here is a default no way. If engine will support this thing, I have big doubts about users...

I'm curious what's the deal with a texture in 4 formats, map requiring some texture which only a version has and others not having that texture class, or using a package with a class removed...

Be wise and use some private tag, private name or even a time-stamp in your files (time is not repeating after all). However, perhaps this won't affect the same maps with two names... MH had this since forever...
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Re: Unreal Tournament 469

Post by Feralidragon »

I think you misunderstood what this fix does.

From the server point of view, nothing changes.
In other words, the point here is not for the server to support multiple versions of the same package.

What changes here is the client.
When a 436/451 client joins a server nowadays, if the client has one of the packages locally installed but it happens to be a different version (different GUID), then the client is unable to join that server since the client will be met with a package mismatch error.

Starting with 469, the client will just download the different version into cache, and load that one when joining that specific server (by GUID, rather than just package name).

If the client then disconnects from that server and joins a different one using yet another different version of the same package, the client will simply download that one as well and do the same thing.

So for the client (the player) there will never be a problem of that kind, it will be seamless and the client will be using the right versions 100% of the time in respect to the server that player joined.

The only problem there might be with this is in respect to things like .ini configuration files, in the sense that different versions of the same package, using the same configuration file, may have different behaviors if the configuration file is not fully compatible with both, but that's a concern that the package developer has to have, as the developer (the modder) can very easily change the name of the configuration file without changing the name of the package in a new version, preventing that problem altogether.

I hope it's more clear now.
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Re: Unreal Tournament 469

Post by sektor2111 »

It's clear how client will work, but in other hand I know maps never running in the same server because their texture resource used has the same name but content doesn't match in any way... There I would like to know what experts are recommending...
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Re: Unreal Tournament 469

Post by Feralidragon »

You mean something like having 3 different maps, all using the same texture (same package name), but each one having used a different version of that texture package?

This is something that came up during discussion around this issue, and my personal opinion then is the same as now (which seemed to be shared by some then at least): the moment package names do not impose a problem to the client (the client can now just download the different version seamlessly, as explained above), it means that if you have 3 package versions, each of which are only compatible with specific maps and other packages (like having 3 texture package versions, where one texture is present in one but not in the other, the example you gave), then you can simply build a 4th version of that package that attempts to unify all the other 3 versions.

So for example, if the problem is missing textures between versions, the new version could simply be a merge of both versions.
If one version has a different texture than the other, but with the same name, then you have to compromise and choose one of them.

In the latter case, if the texture is only be used by 1 or 2 maps for example, you can simply add that texture version with a new name into the texture package, and modify those maps to use that new texture instead, and done.

Whichever the case, since mismatches are no longer a problem, you can actually use this to make modifications and fixes to existing packages that would otherwise not work.

And ultimately, it's the responsibility of developers and mappers alike to be responsible and come up with a way to prevent that sort of issue from happening.
Such as adding a personal prefix to map names, texture packages, etc, etc.
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Re: Unreal Tournament 469

Post by sektor2111 »

Yes, merging textures can be an answer, but also it depends on internal names used for texture blocks. They used similar names for different texture and then... won't match some walls or causing borks - happened in MyLevels due to these similar names but different content of textures. These are a sensitive problem to solve...
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Re: Unreal Tournament 469

Post by sektor2111 »

Still some files from UTv469 were doing damage to MGS server - one of maps refused to load. Editor.u used as mapping resource (for certain texture) was linked with DLL causing calls to something which could not be loaded in context.

Code: Select all

Warning: Failed to load 'Editor': Can't find Class in file 'Class Editor.TransBuffer'
Warning: Failed to load 'MH-.....................unr': Can't find Class in file 'Class Editor.TransBuffer'
Warning: Failed to load 'Level None.MyLevel': Can't find Class in file 'Class Editor.TransBuffer'
Amazingly they had even UnrealTournament.exe file there which it's not really needed in a dedicated server context anyway - a childish action... I had to screw up structure in order to get rid of "files protection" otherwise reverting DLL and U "stock files" to original 451b could not be possible in these managed VDS Servers or how are they called.
After a few minutes of FTP-ing assets I got server back with map working properly...
"Respect" for the dude giving them idea and the private link to screw up my work with this non-public UT version UNABLE TO DO WHAT XC does and wasting my time for doing some dodgy moves for getting server back as it was one month ago...

Until this will be public and having a XC_Engine for it available, you button-geniuses keep PRIVATE stuff PRIVATE. If your native language pack lacks in understanding term PRIVATE get a dictionary and/or GTFO. You could install this version in a managed VDS at NfoServers only for yourself, without to ask them to do this destruction of repositories, letting 451b to sit in the back as a main backup. If you cannot figure how to do that, get a PC operating manual and learn how to use a computer. They had 451b as default server-install source but you can have even a 436 version if you really want that as gaming support for your assets.
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Re: Unreal Tournament 469

Post by Swanky »

sektor2111 wrote: Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:36 pm Yes, merging textures can be an answer, but also it depends on internal names used for texture blocks. They used similar names for different texture and then... won't match some walls or causing borks - happened in MyLevels due to these similar names but different content of textures. These are a sensitive problem to solve...
Better idea would be to create a master directory of original texture files and revolve maps around this. Renaming / resaving assets is usually just a rookie mistake, or ignorance. Best to avoid such maps / files altogether, or fix them to use the standardized original file.
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Re: Unreal Tournament 469

Post by Feralidragon »

^ That's actually one of the long term projects I have been wanting to do for years, but hadn't the time, motivation and resources to pull it off yet.

I intended to eventually create a central online resource and plugins for UEd so you could just search for textures you wanted (and even real BSP prefabs, and stuff like that), and preview them and download them to use in your map.
Although part of it was also motivated in preventing package mismatches altogether, all the while motivating the creation of new standalone resource packages outside of MyLevel.
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Re: Unreal Tournament 469

Post by EvilGrins »

Does anybody know if this is true?
http://forum.ultimateut.tk/viewtopic.ph ... 2598#p2595

If it is, I won't be getting this update. I love mapping with UTDMT & UTDMW.
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Re: Unreal Tournament 469

Post by Shrimp »

Surely a required call to a new `SetEnemy` function would break the backward compatibility requirement?
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Re: Unreal Tournament 469

Post by Feralidragon »

EvilGrins wrote: Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:42 am Does anybody know if this is true?
http://forum.ultimateut.tk/viewtopic.ph ... 2598#p2595

If it is, I won't be getting this update. I love mapping with UTDMT & UTDMW.
Then you won't be able to play NW4. :ironic:

But even if it doesn't work "as is" in the new update for any reason (a few mods are bound to break depending on how they were coded), it's still updateable.
Meaning that, either the original author of the mod fixes it, or if they're nowhere to be found, then the community may lend a hand doing it, especially now that mismatching packages won't be a problem anymore (meaning the binary itself could be updated directly from the editor for example without issues).
Shrimp wrote: Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:49 am Surely a required call to a new `SetEnemy` function would break the backward compatibility requirement?
I doubt that's the case.
I don't have the 469 UScript in front of me right now, but I don't think any function signatures were changed.

This is probably something else, maybe the way the mod was made relying on something that the new version probably fixed.
If the mod gets broken over something the new version broke by accident, then that translates into a bug report.

If someone is able to get more info on this, I may also be able to help to figure out which one may be.
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Re: Unreal Tournament 469

Post by OjitroC »

Feralidragon wrote: Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:13 am But even if it doesn't work "as is" in the new update for any reason (a few mods are bound to break depending on how they were coded), it's still updateable.
Meaning that, either the original author of the mod fixes it, or if they're nowhere to be found, then the community may lend a hand doing it, especially now that mismatching packages won't be a problem anymore (meaning the binary itself could be updated directly from the editor for example without issues).
Will it be possible, prior to the final release of UT469 to the 'public', to indicate which if any of the existing mods the new patch might break? Or at least to indicate what, if anything, in the new patch might break existing mods? This will be critical for those of us who play mainly off-line, and use a wide variety of mods and mutators, in deciding whether or not to actually install the new patch. It would be frustrating, at the very least, to install it and then find one couldn't use one's favourite mod or mutator (and have to go through the possibly complex procedure of uninstalling it).

This also points to the need to provide detailed documentation with the new patch that indicates all the changes from previous versions and provides a detailed list of those current system files that would be altered and/or replaced (including the changes made to any .ini files - this is important to me because my UT setup doesn't use the UnrealTournament.ini for configuration info, instead I use Higor's MiniLauncher which has its own .ini, so that any changes made to UT.ini would have no effect on my setup).

Mismatches are surely going to remain a problem when playing off-line? It could even become worse perhaps - if someone updates a mod or mutator to be compatible with 469 then presumably that updated version would not be compatible with other versions of UT?
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Re: Unreal Tournament 469

Post by EvilGrins »

Aha!
Feralidragon wrote: Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:13 amThen you won't be able to play NW4. :ironic:
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