Unreal Tournament 469

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sektor2111
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Re: Unreal Tournament 469

Post by sektor2111 » Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:09 am

And I'm curious when will be available a public testing version. I have less hopes to see things finished in XC_Engine for a "final" version so maybe 469 will have a better functionality. But because I don't know what does it breaks or not, I don't intend to do things which later I'll have to redo because of newer environment.

Else perhaps I have to prepare a backup adjusted stock server version, cleaned by borks, as a safe measure in case that UT469 will get ready when I'll have 20+ years of house isolation. Worth doing that ?

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Re: Unreal Tournament 469

Post by ExpEM » Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:53 am

Can we stop bots from camping on teleporters?

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Re: Unreal Tournament 469

Post by sektor2111 » Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:58 am

ExpEM wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:53 am
Can we stop bots from camping on teleporters?
No ! A NavigationPoint it's their goal. Pull them higher for being UnReachable, it won't hurt anything. Use ambushpoints around, items, ect ect kickers.
You can even disconnect paths going there or simply block teleporter with another bBlockActors actor allowing only player to get in. You don't need a game update for a lack of knowledge.

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Re: Unreal Tournament 469

Post by ExpEM » Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:04 am

sektor2111 wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:58 am
ExpEM wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:53 am
Can we stop bots from camping on teleporters?
No ! A NavigationPoint it's their goal. Pull them higher for being UnReachable, it won't hurt anything. Use ambushpoints around, items, ect ect kickers.
You can even disconnect paths going there or simply block teleporter with another bBlockActors actor allowing only player to get in. You don't need a game update for a lack of knowledge.
Specifically when a bot is in combat and goes through a teleporter, enemy is out of sight so bot "stakes out" on top of the teleporter.

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Re: Unreal Tournament 469

Post by sektor2111 » Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:08 am

Seriously ? Don't tell me that a kicker set for KickedClasses = class'BotPack.Bot' won't blow him away. Do we need 469 for that ? This is MAPPING problem not UT problem, also a design problem if Bot cannot see next path to enemy.

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Re: Unreal Tournament 469

Post by ExpEM » Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:12 am

sektor2111 wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:08 am
Seriously ? Don't tell me that a kicker set for KickedClasses = class'BotPack.Bot' won't blow him away. Do we need 469 for that ? This is MAPPING problem not UT problem, also a design problem if Bot cannot see next path to enemy.
I literally mean what I said, a bot goes through a teleporter then enters stakeout while standing on the receiver teleporter. aka camping on the receiver teleporter.

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Re: Unreal Tournament 469

Post by sektor2111 » Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:15 am

:facepalm:
I have done even a Mutator blowing turds away, it's somewhere in forum - NO UT update is ever need here for breaking other maps - with some new "creativity".
Look at AS-Rook - the lack of mapping it's not an excuse, are we done here ? I was asking something which it's covered by USELESS posting now.
Last edited by sektor2111 on Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:23 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Unreal Tournament 469

Post by ExpEM » Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:16 am

sektor2111 wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:15 am
:facepalm:
I have done even a Mutator blowing turds away - NO UT update is ever need here for breaking other maps.
This is a Bot AI problem not a map breaking problem.

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Re: Unreal Tournament 469

Post by sektor2111 » Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:18 am

It's the lack of knowledge about BOT, and about pathing generally, simple as that - and original Bot can be replaced.

PS: I don't even need to use bad maps - we have a mountain of these. And what I posted/asked on top won't even be read... Good...
Thanks for spam !

Edit: But I got idea, a new feature in MapGarbage for "touching" Bot when arrives to a teleporter... Good idea.

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Re: Unreal Tournament 469

Post by papercoffee » Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:34 pm

@sektor2111 can you please calm down?
You seem very aggravated around this topic.

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Re: Unreal Tournament 469

Post by sektor2111 » Mon Apr 06, 2020 4:38 pm

I'll explain the panic a bit later - so far I did a bit of testing in that super duper UGold 227. Hello ? Anybody there ?
Mr. Editor did lightning and geometry PERFECT but I did not see any zoning done properly. After rebuild of BSP and lightning in UT Editor I got zones back.
I'M HOPING that this uber duber editing from U227 won't come in UT. Bot problem it's a PITY - a brain f@rt; if you want, I'll drop you some images with a U227 build and I assure you that you would be thrilled what sort of result has come... see map which I posted in XC thread build there because of some funky lightning stuff. Every single actor it's in zone iLeaf = -1, no kidding, MapGarbage excepted points from void to be linked - nice "build" no doubts... I'm not surprised to see my NavigationPoint going down-hill when it comes to computing space distances into void... at iLeaf = -1.
And yes, I'm taking these very seriously not abrasive but enough louder because that 227 claimed a superior engine should not be a MODEL for this UT update - you guys which you were doing a deeper research light me what's going on over there. Right now I'm going to look at those "maps" happily posted here what kind of zones might have and how screwed they are...

Edit:
See what I mean:
Initial build sampled:
Initial.PNG
Has a single zone ignoring ALL PORTALS - Jesus Christ !
Then I had to reconstruct this - more closer to reality:
Adjusted.PNG
This it's why I'm thrilled. Do you still want that U227 whatever ? Perhaps I'll use it 50%, the rest it's old plain UT. Now I understand what Ferali meant about that map build problems. A simple cubed map was properly borked without reason.

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Re: Unreal Tournament 469

Post by papercoffee » Mon Apr 06, 2020 5:49 pm

I don't know what you are talking about ...I had never issues with zones in UEd2.1 (227).
My heavily zone using Gravity map has shown up just like it should be after a rebuild in Unreal227's Editor.

Edit------
That map got borked because I made a mistake with the portal sheets. Thinking too complicated was my problem.

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Re: Unreal Tournament 469

Post by sektor2111 » Mon Apr 06, 2020 7:03 pm

Let me explain then consequences of a map having everything into void VS a smarty bot.
While "smarter" Bot wants only items from map in such a map he won't go anywhere. Is this even needed ? I think not.
How I discovered these ? Trying to remap paths network discarding void buggers - nothing was linked because everything was into void, it surprised me that it was working even in plain UT... If you open map posted in XC v24 thread I don't have any portal miss-aligned or such - scale 8 not 16. Build returned was good looking at first check, but later... cough. Less hopes with editing complex things...

As for previous Bot and Teleporter marriage, there is not bug found if a kicker smaller than teleporter is placed in teleporter radius - will execute a drop for clown camping in Teleporter, piece of cake + teleporter can be set with a velocity, all incoming pawn can be thrown like is fired up by a kicker. The only need here is making sure about Bot's physics. Bot must have desired physics for navigation else DevPath returns no destination.

Edit:
If you guys do not have issues with 227 Editor2.1 then use it please to fix map SkaarjTower... :noidea

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Re: Unreal Tournament 469

Post by Mastron » Tue Apr 14, 2020 1:54 pm

Do you think this Bot is going to get improved anytime soon?

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Re: Unreal Tournament 469

Post by sektor2111 » Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:46 pm

I don't know, I'm using for months some MBot types which I wrote and this is my desired deal. Use your bots depending one needs and not a "common template" supposed ready for everything and flawed. Of course, in UT469 would be nice a physics check vs zone from time to time, removal of MoveTarget in state "dead" and combo stuff, watch for firing weapon at enemy when enemy is not visible - but only if exist enemy, sanity checks when mapper is dumb with Bot in maps unarmed and spitting spam in console, etc...
In kicker doesn't hurt a bWaterZone check - physics falling in water it's an abomination - taking in account zone morphing for development. ALL needs sanity checks because they don't hurt performance, there are strong machines now days, it's more damaging a wild code dealing with null things.

EDIT: One of the reasons for producing lousy maps it's that some commands are not showing anything - :wtf:
- LEVEL LINKS
- LEVEL VALIDATE
- LEVEL FIX - here are doable more things because I don't think that's a fix after using it multiple times...
You can see what I mean - it's plain stupid having these removed or not working... and not even in 451 any they don't do anything. And What's Up with CoolBSP ?
Aside: they don't work neither in Gold U227 Editor... :???:
I might be willing to import some of these assets in GarbageLord - at least those accessible ones at UScript Level. Cya later !
EDIT: The same with command DUMPINT - nothing is generated but... a log line lying... Or do I have a config issue ?

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