How to play deathmatch on non-deathmatch maps?

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Kerr Avon
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How to play deathmatch on non-deathmatch maps?

Post by Kerr Avon » Mon Feb 01, 2021 12:07 am

Although I haven't played UT in a while, I have played it a lot, mainly deathmatch or Last Man Standing, against the (very good) bots, and it's one of the games that's permanently on my PC and laptop, and is still my favourite PC arena shooter, even after more than two decades. But I am racking my brain trying to remember something; how can I play deathmatch mode on non-deathmatch maps, such as capture the flag maps, or domination maps? I'm sure I had something, probably a mutator or a game type, that allowed this to take place, but I can't find it in the game now (I have lots of mods and mutators installed, and none of them seem to be the one I think I remember).

What is the name of the mod or mutator that allows this?

Thanks for any answers.

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OjitroC
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Re: How to play deathmatch on non-deathmatch maps?

Post by OjitroC » Mon Feb 01, 2021 12:36 am

One simple expedient is to alter the prefix of those maps to DM.

There's also a series of mutators from MrLoathsome - these may be on this forum somewhere (I haven't checked) - if not, they can be had here http://www.ecoop.ucoz.com/load/ along with lots of other cool things (well worth looking the list of 'stuff' there).

This is the readme
Spoiler
Show
Loathsomes Multi Map Madness - Pack1

Play DM, TDM and LMS on CTF and DOM maps.

Credits to .AFcore who showed me the technique that
makes this possible.


Install:

Copy all the .u and .int files into your UT\System directory.

Six new games will be in your gametypes list:

"DeathMatch - CTF Maps"
"Team DeathMatch - CTF Maps"
"Last Man Standing - CTF Maps"
"DeathMatch - DOM Maps"
"Team DeathMatch - DOM Maps"
"Last Man Standing - DOM Maps"

Select the game you want to play and configure settings as usual.

Note: If you have AutoSwitch Levels checked, be sure to have some
maps added to the Cycled Maps in the Map List section.
If the Cycled Maps list is empty, this will default to a random DM map.

Game settings also available in the Advanced Settings in the
Gametypes section.
Look for:

"CTF2DMGame"
"CTF2TDMGame"
"CTF2LMSGame"
"DOM2DMGame"
"DOM2TDMGame"
"DOM2LMSGame"

Server admins: uz files included in the uzfiles folder in the archive.

New Gametype classes:

CTFMMM.DeathMatchPlus
CTFMMM.TeamGamePlus
CTFMMM.LastManStanding
DOMMMM.DeathMatchPlus
DOMMMM.TeamGamePlus
DOMMMM.LastManStanding

Enjoy !

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Barbie
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Re: How to play deathmatch on non-deathmatch maps?

Post by Barbie » Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:21 am

You can use the command line and set the game type, for example

Code: Select all

D:\Programme\UT\System\UnrealTournament.exe D:\Programme\UT\Maps\CTF-Face.unr?Game=Botpack.DeathMatchPlus?Mutator=Botpack.LowGrav
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Re: How to play deathmatch on non-deathmatch maps?

Post by EvilGrins » Mon Feb 01, 2021 7:27 am

I just swap the DOM or CTF to DM, simple renaming. Usually works pretty well, for the most part any pathing on a CTF or DOM map works fine in DM...

...only downside is bots sometimes stop on the formerly CTF maps at defense points, which is kinda pointless in Deathmatch.
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Kerr Avon
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Re: How to play deathmatch on non-deathmatch maps?

Post by Kerr Avon » Mon Feb 01, 2021 12:41 pm

Thanks for all the great answers, everyone!

OjitroC, when I get home I will try Loathsomes Multi Map Madness - Pack1 first, it sounds like a very convenient way of doing what I want. It doesn't sound familiar, though, I don't think that was the mutator I used (if it was a mutator), but this new one sounds great.

It never occurred to me that just changing a map's prefix would allow it to be used for a different gametype. I'd have assumed that UT would have been programmed to reject such a map because the in-game placements wouldn't match the game-type. Otherwise, why isn' t UT programmed so that it will automatically allow the player to play DM on any CTF or DOM map, if they choose, so that when you select the DM type then it would ask if you also wanted to include the non-DM maps? How does UT set the player/bot spawn pointd on say a CTF map when playing DM on it? Does it use the map's preset spawn points? If so, then doesn't that mean that most CTF maps when played in DM will result in most players just spawning at either end of the map?

Barbie, it likewise never occurred to me to use command line functions. Out of interest, iss there a comprehensive list of these functions, please

Thanks again, everyone.

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OjitroC
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Re: How to play deathmatch on non-deathmatch maps?

Post by OjitroC » Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:21 pm

Kerr Avon wrote:
Mon Feb 01, 2021 12:41 pm
How does UT set the player/bot spawn pointd on say a CTF map when playing DM on it? Does it use the map's preset spawn points? If so, then doesn't that mean that most CTF maps when played in DM will result in most players just spawning at either end of the map?
Yes, the PlayerStarts in the map are used so playing DM in a CTF map, for example, could mean players spawning at either end of the map. One way around that is to use another of MrLoathsome's mutators - RandomSpawnLocations (RSL) - I think this uses pathnodes and other navigation points as PlayerStarts. I've used it a lot and it works fine (from time to time though the player may spawn in some very odd locations). You can use it in normal DM matches to avoid the predictability of where players/bots will spawn, especially on smaller maps, and, in CTF maps, it spices them up somewhat by spawning players outside the 'team areas', though that, of course, alters the gameplay to a greater or lesser extent depending on the design and layout of the map.

As EG points out there are other drawbacks to using CTF maps for DM - basically you can try particular maps and see how they work for you - you may find the gameplay on some OK and on others not.

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Re: How to play deathmatch on non-deathmatch maps?

Post by Neon_Knight » Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:32 pm

Kerr Avon wrote:
Mon Feb 01, 2021 12:41 pm
It never occurred to me that just changing a map's prefix would allow it to be used for a different gametype. I'd have assumed that UT would have been programmed to reject such a map because the in-game placements wouldn't match the game-type. Otherwise, why isn' t UT programmed so that it will automatically allow the player to play DM on any CTF or DOM map, if they choose, so that when you select the DM type then it would ask if you also wanted to include the non-DM maps? How does UT set the player/bot spawn pointd on say a CTF map when playing DM on it? Does it use the map's preset spawn points? If so, then doesn't that mean that most CTF maps when played in DM will result in most players just spawning at either end of the map?
There's at least one official map taking advantage of this. On PC, as then there are Coagulate and Hood in the Console versions, which can also be played on DM or DOM-based modes. I can't say about the others.
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OjitroC
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Re: How to play deathmatch on non-deathmatch maps?

Post by OjitroC » Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:42 pm

Neon_Knight wrote:
Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:32 pm
There's at least one official map taking advantage of this. On PC, as then there are Coagulate and Hood in the Console versions, which can also be played on DM or DOM-based modes. I can't say about the others.
Yes, there are also custom DM (or DOM) maps that are designed to be played as DM and DOM by simply altering the prefix - I can't remember which ones so that's not much help but I do recall seeing that in a map's readme in a number of instances.

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Re: How to play deathmatch on non-deathmatch maps?

Post by EvilGrins » Tue Feb 02, 2021 12:07 am

Kerr Avon wrote:
Mon Feb 01, 2021 12:41 pm
It never occurred to me that just changing a map's prefix would allow it to be used for a different gametype.
I wouldn't recommend trying that with a MonsterHunt map, as all the spawn points are pretty close together, no matter how large the map is.
Kerr Avon wrote:
Mon Feb 01, 2021 12:41 pm
why isn' t UT programmed so that it will automatically allow the player to play DM on any CTF or DOM map
There's also an internal component to it, which I've only learned about as I sometimes play maps by not going into UT to select them but just double-clicking on the map files themselves. There's an internal selection within maps for what gametype they're setup for, I've sometimes double-clicked on a CTF map only to have it open up in DOM instead due to this.
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OjitroC
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Re: How to play deathmatch on non-deathmatch maps?

Post by OjitroC » Tue Feb 02, 2021 12:24 am

EvilGrins wrote:
Tue Feb 02, 2021 12:07 am
I wouldn't recommend trying that with a MonsterHunt map, as all the spawn points are pretty close together, no matter how large the map is.
Ive played the odd MH or SP map and forgotten I had RandomSpawnLocation in the mutator list - only to realise when I spawn halfway through the map!! I wouldn't recommend trying to play AS maps as DM either (though some AS maps are worth 'converting' to DM by removing AS specific actors and some movers).