Stop Those Bots!

[Peamole]

How do you stop the bots from picking up everything in a room? For example: They take all of the scuba gear, RocketX, ut_shieldbelt, etc..
What about how the bots on your team can telefrag you but you can't telefrag them? Doesn't that just grind your gears? Are there any fixes besides spawning everybody into slides, v-shaped slides, or shoots? Or a set of code applied to all bots at the start of every game, like a bot behavior mutator?

[OjitroC]

Sektor's MBots are less inclined to pick up everything - at least the version I'm using - the difference between them and default bots is very noticeable particularly in team games (in which normal bots are very annoying for the reason you state).

[EvilGrins]

Sorry, can't help you. I'm very pro bot.

[sektor2111]

UE1 and its Bots were never supposed to have ALL items in one room - look at stock maps. That's the style and not bunches of items in a square meter.
If you need such things, items need to be rewritten with another desire code, not stock items causing a permanent desire even if this desire is decreased, it won't be Zero. Closer items are mainly movement targets as long as their desire is positive.

[NemesisNeS]

I'm very pro bot.

I agree and approve, as I am also pro bot.

Sektor's MBot does change the dynamics of what bots can pick up, and there is significant change in how they move as well. You can also tweak things in the actors screen, though I don't recommend this unless you know what you're doing. There was another mutator around somewhere, where you can pretty much have the bots pick up things that they need. I.e., health vails, boosts and ammo and weapons, though it limits them from over picking up the same items within a set time. This also applies to live players as well, though I can't remember the name of the mutator for the life of me. Most maps that don't have proper bot pathing is another story all together though.

[sektor2111]

Sektor's MBot does change the dynamics of what bots can pick up, and there is significant change in how they move as well.

Agree but... I'm not satisfied yet about everything. It's hard to do changes without affecting whatever game-type which is based on plain Bot. You can improve X things and damaging Y things. This way you have a Plus in DM but... a big issue elsewhere.
The stage which people are not understanding is that an UT Bot cannot do everything. Each mod/game-type with a special deal would be recommended to have it's own BOTS namely saying:
- SLV - original Bot has no flight deal and solution it's not what SLV does;
- MH - Recommended a Bot more oriented to Pawns as generic habit and not only for bIsPlayer;
- XV - See what a Bot does with a Tank when has to jump for getting flag or scoring a capture...;
- X Sniper Mods - UT BOT has not much in common here;
- and so on and so forth.

The rest is just plain goofing such as:
- my defensepoint has a sightradius of 20000 while flags are at 8000 UU each-other and 20000 doesn't really work in 3D space using UE1 (as stated even in a EXU comment) - even entering in paths-net "is expensive" and so it was limited at 800 UU, of course in UScript is doable with less cost... We don't forget (but mapper does) that firing range of stock weapons is limited. Assuming that Bot can see at 15000 UU range, which stock weapon is suitable in that situation ? DM doesn't use DispersionPistol which is the only weapon capable to shoot everywhere;
- 10 items and two PathNodes in a spot where a big Pawn can actually cover all of them as closer as they are - this is not UE1 mapping;
- not having any clue how to setup paths through a vertical tunnel. Nodes from air are not helping at all - we don't get Unreal physics, a bit closer to Real Life physics;
- not understanding that a JumpSpot is a Target not a Jumping Source to/from the ground and it's heading to an upper Exit point causing an impossible path;
- etc.

R: STOP Those Bots ?
A: Replace them... and replace/delete unfinished UNR files taking space and slowing down maps browsing.

[Peamole]

Thanks for the replies everyone; more help and replies are always welcome.

UE1 and its Bots were never supposed to have ALL items in one room - look at stock maps. That's the style and not bunches of items in a square meter.
If you need such things, items need to be rewritten with another desire code, not stock items causing a permanent desire even if this desire is decreased, it won't be Zero. Closer items are mainly movement targets as long as their desire is positive.

I was afraid it would come to this. I am to a coder as a kid with toy blocks is to a master architect with bricks and mortar or pen and paper. That would be cool if someone could make (or find) a SatisfiedItems.u, EnoughPickups.u, whatever it's called or whatever you want to call it. This would be perfect for MonsterHunt with bots, etc.
Say, sektor2111, do you have a link to the MBots thing or a download link? I can't find where to download it. I found a TeamBotSkill.u file but I dunno what it does yet...

[Old UT Veteran]

I found a TeamBotSkill.u file but I dunno what it does yet...

its a mod that modifies the skill of bots on each team. I have the exact same file, along with an .int file. You can configure the team skill in the mod menu, assuming you have the mutator applied id assume.

In regards to what Sektor said, some of issues mentioned can be solved with custom actors, path modifying or ways to force bots to perform a certain way via mods. Down the line, this takes a lot of playtesting and tinkering to get the bot to act accordingly. Id say it depends a lot on what the mapper wants to achieve. There are plenty of these 'one time use' actors that are meant to have bots act in a specific way just on one map. Default bot is meant to just be decent in close quarter fighting and finding places to run to. They have no reason to check a corner of a map if there is no item there. Higor's ferbotz mod has bots that are slightly more focused on combat, more accustomed to online environment. However, to achieve that, ferbotz mod introduces a different pawn and is not a "bot" subclass, you can run into issues with custom gametype support, mutators, etc. because not everything is accounted for.

[sektor2111]

Say, sektor2111, do you have a link to the MBots thing or a download link? I can't find...

Probably here is something if memory doesn't cheat me...
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=6300
In other hand, like I mentioned before, each stage of game, depending on game-type, might need several things added/skipped for Bots, actually I'm curious if anybody else can develop an almighty Bot capable to react correctly in any sort of trash map... I'll be number one at installing those Bots...

[a9902957@nepwk.com]

MBot_F Gen2 updated bug report (I guess):

OldState StakeOut NewState Attacking
Failed to find function ClearShot

Encountered in a MushMatch game but I guess that is unrelated?

[sektor2111]

I'm not sure if fixing to Gen3 will be perfectly compatible with prior Gen2 in this case, but probably it worth trying...
Solution:
Moving every single of these "lost" functions outside of states into main class. This way they won't get called delayed from another state that is not having the function. It looks like it's the same issue like for function "FindViewSpot" previously embedded only in state "Hunting" - and it was happily crashing game when was called elsewhere from another state due to some experiments which I did in Navigation stuff...

On Topic: Stop those Bots !
Answer: Not my goal, never was and never will be. Stopping Bot is forbidden... .

[Peamole]

On Topic: Stop those Bots !
Answer: Not my goal, never was and never will be. Stopping Bot is forbidden... .

Doh...

[sektor2111]

If it comes to bump this chapter...

How do you stop the bots from picking up everything in a room?

The thing is simple: Don't put everything in a room .
Bot is always guilty for mapper's goofing ? Think at this well...
On the same line: Point me a stock map that has everything in a room...

[Peamole]

The thing is simple: Don't put everything in a room .
Bot is always guilty for mapper's goofing ? Think at this well...
On the same line: Point me a stock map that has everything in a room...
[/quote]

Alright, I get what you're saying. I tried to use mapping and hidden ButtonMovers to get around mistaken Trigger issues. Imagine getting on a RocketX server with a few bots, a bot spawns ahead of you in the middle of the game and doesn't take all pickups on your side. Wouldn't that be awesome? You can pick up a RXRB or w/e and zoom outa' there! No TK-like sabotage. I just wish there were a mod that taps into and alters Bots behavior...

On a side note, if you haven't, you really should check out this map called CTF-FloridaSharkAttack-fix.unr in a packed server. Ha! Ha! Yeah! Some of the best nostalgia. I was playing just like the "German Kid Angry About UT99!" Wooo! Hoooo!
It's definitely one of my favorite maps.

Edit: Thanks, NemesisNeS, I'll look at it. I think I even downloaded it before but never got around to using it...

[sektor2111]

Bot behavior in picking up things is native (HARD-CODED)... but enforced by weapon/Inventory code. When inventories will be written properly it's not like Bot will want to gain everything. I wrote pickups for MH just because boys were adding 8-10 ScubaGear around a water entry. First Bot took all of them and others were getting drowned. This is why majority of assets which I'm cloning/replacing in that game-type have different rules and then... Bot is nice, sharing everything like a true mate - because it's a TEAM game after all.

And suddenly we go to the second answer: You'll stop bots when you'll get rid of lousy items permanently distracting them.