To Mipmap or not to Mipmap that is the question.

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Que
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To Mipmap or not to Mipmap that is the question.

Post by Que » Mon Nov 07, 2022 11:31 pm

Mipmaps!! Some problems when not using them
And when to maybe not use them.

I major problem with MIPMAPS generation is that they make Textures look really bad. Yes pro players set world details to low so that they can see the players better. Pop!

But when don't you want your custom banners or other highlights to look ugly in your map?

For example you may have some clan logos scattered around the place or initials.

This is when imo you don't upload these particular textures with MIPMAPS enabled.

So they always look pretty regardless of what the players "World Details" setting is set to.

The only caveat to not using Mipmaps is when it comes to the Default D3D renderer Shipped with 436/451.

Image

Yes! Some people (stares @EvilGrins) still use this old and antiquated renderer as well as new users who download UT from gog.com or through steam.

Now what's the problem if someone uses D3D to connect to your server and Mipmaps are not being used then?

Well anything over the size of 512px will cause these clients to crash. Therefore if you want to not only ensure that your custom textures look great in game but also don't want to turn away any would-be players because of some basic Texture issues then I would suggest either importing larger images (512+) with Mips enabled or reducing these images down to 256x256 and scaling them through the editor upto 512px or 2.0x's the size without Mipmaps on import.

Other times you don't want mipmaps imported are for scoreboards which display Country-Flags and player faces for example. In these cases I recommend using packages which are not Mipmapped .

End Rant/
Last edited by Que on Tue Nov 08, 2022 2:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Buggie
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Re: To Mipmap or not to Mipmap that is the question.

Post by Buggie » Tue Nov 08, 2022 12:42 am

Look like you not really know what is mipmaping is. And put all together - mimapping, compressed textures and compressed MipMap (CompMips).

Mipmap not make texture look bad. It is just precalculated way of draw textures far away. With cost of size of package.

Same story about compressed textures. In fact it allows better quality sometimes (depends from format). And there too can be CompMips. Which can too decrease CPU load via increase package size.

Old renders not able handle big textures or exhaust memory when do so. but d3d9 render work pretty fine even on non HW accelerated T&L videocards. And can be used with v436. So I not see this as a big problem.

If you really want some compat for very stubborn players - you can make big compressed and small unompressed textures. So old version use small textures, when modern use big.

Also sometimes mipmaps useless and just waste space. Like MyLevel.Screenshot. Last time I see here MipMaps + BC1 + CompMips, which is totally overkill and not need here at all.

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Que
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Re: To Mipmap or not to Mipmap that is the question.

Post by Que » Tue Nov 08, 2022 2:22 am

buggie wrote:Look like you not really know what is mipmaping is.
correct!!.. all I know is images look bad if "World Texture Detail" = Low.
Image

heres what our UTChat emojis Screen looks like with MipMaps;

Image

and without;

Image

so prefer NOT to use them.. these days even the lower end PC;s should not struggle with slightly larger texture files.
buggie wrote: If you really want some compat for very stubborn players - you can make big compressed and small uncompressed textures. So old version use small textures, when modern use big.
how do we do this?
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Re: To Mipmap or not to Mipmap that is the question.

Post by Berserker » Tue Nov 08, 2022 2:57 am

Que wrote:
Tue Nov 08, 2022 2:22 am
so prefer NOT to use them.. these days even the lower end PC;s should not struggle with slightly larger texture files.

Always use mipmaps for map textures, do not use mipmaps for stuff like emote icons or crosshairs, I agree on this.

But please, always use mipmaps for map textures, the texture quality becomes worse if you look at a texture without mipmaps from long distance. It's not about performance, its about quality, textures with mipmaps will always look better in high resolution than a texture with no mipmaps.
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Re: To Mipmap or not to Mipmap that is the question.

Post by Shrimp » Tue Nov 08, 2022 3:01 am

Like everything else mipmaps have appropriate applications and use cases.

UI and HUD textures should not be imported with mipmaps. You need them to look clear regardless of the user's graphical preferences. That means you need to use common sense and not use 1024x1024 UI textures.

World textures, skins, etc, should have mipmaps to scale with the user's graphical or performance preferences. There may be some specific exceptions where you want or need some textures to maintain their look for specific applications (perhaps like the logos you mentioned), but those are not the general rule.
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Re: To Mipmap or not to Mipmap that is the question.

Post by Buggie » Tue Nov 08, 2022 4:09 am

Que wrote:
Tue Nov 08, 2022 2:22 am
buggie wrote:Look like you not really know what is mipmaping is.
correct!!.. all I know is images look bad if "World Texture Detail" = Low.
Then need forbid this bad option at all :lol:
Que wrote:
Tue Nov 08, 2022 2:22 am
buggie wrote: If you really want some compat for very stubborn players - you can make big compressed and small uncompressed textures. So old version use small textures, when modern use big.
how do we do this?
In UnrealEd you can specify another image when import compmips for existing texture.

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_21
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Re: To Mipmap or not to Mipmap that is the question.

Post by _21 » Tue Nov 08, 2022 7:29 pm

Can't we just use a different LODSET for UI?
Does LODSET_None work? maybe LODSET_Skin because usually they them pro players keep the skins on high?
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