Using UnrealGold Dm maps with UT online - Legal issues...

[MrLoathsome]

Earlier tonight I put the 10 Dm maps that came with my copy of Unreal Gold on my TDM and DOM servers.

It seems these maps have that Do Not Download flag set, so currently if players want to try those maps
on my servers, they will need to copy them over from their Unreal maps folder to their UT maps folder.

Would I be correct in assuming it would be a violation of the license to run a utility that turns off
the Do Not Download flag for these 10 Dm map and then place them on a UT server?

If I did that, would the maps I had changed the flag on still be the same version as the originals?
i.e. if somebody had the original maps, would just changing that flag on the servers version give
them a file mismatch.

[UT99.org]

Yes it doesn't change anything but the flag itself, the files are assumed to be the same version. Or maybe it was only the tool I used when removing the flag (converting unreal maps for coop). The server must run the modified version but the client can download any version they want from the redirect

[MrLoathsome]

Cool. And that was a quick reply.

Only the legality question regarding a UT server sending the default Unreal Gold DM maps from a redirect remains.

[JackGriffin]

I'll tell you my experiences with this.

When setting up my coop server I had about 50 files that I had to change the flag on via hex editor because they would not download. Most were map files. Changing only the download flag did cause a version mismatch as a client and I was forced to recompress the edited file and place it on my redirect. It then worked perfectly. The cache system was able to draw out the hex edited file and use it in place of the default map.

I know that several people have posted that you can alter the flag without forcing a mismatch but in real-world experience I was unable to accomplish it. And I know what you mean about altering stock packages BUT this makes them useless if they can't be online compatible. I did it without a second thought because making stuff work across a server is the whole point of playing.

[UT99.org]

I can't see how hex editing any file would give a version mismatch. Provided you are replacing text and not adding anything. I've never heard of hex editing where you would not use the insert (key) mode.

The tool I used was included in Jack's big file release a few months back, if you cannot find it anywhere or your method fails, I have a backup

Regarding legalities, there was talk about it being illegal to back engineer ut2004 to ut99 etc. It's probably time someone asked why such an old game as Unreal is not abandonware. But I won't, LOL

[papercoffee]

why such an old game as Unreal is not abandonware.

Because the developer and producer ...therefore the rights holder still exist.

[Feralidragon]

Epic Games is the kind of studio which won't ever let anything out for free (besides the UDK, to an extent, and only to get more $$$ through royalties and market influence), because of industry secrets, and also I strongly believe they are afraid on what we could come up with if they did that. U227 is a prime example of what just a few can accomplish once some freedom is given, now imagine it in the wild.
Epic knows the yet latent potential of their older engines and games, and how they can be pulled out to become something that could compete with Quake Live and other recovered old games.
And last: they value copyright above all and Unreal was what started it all and they want to keep it for themselves like a medal.

This is just my own view on things of course, I didn't ask them directly, and I doubt they would answer at all if asked lol.

[Wises]

The quake engine actually appears far superior to UE1 they even have curves and ragdoll physics.
Maybe should port UT99 To the Quake engine.. actually there must be a mod to allow dodging in quake.

[papercoffee]

The quake engine actually appears far superior to UE1 they even have curves and ragdoll physics.
Maybe should port UT99 To the Quake engine.. actually there must be a mod to allow dodging in quake.

But then you have to rename it into ...maybe ... ST99 = Surreal Tourney 99

[Feralidragon]

Nah, I would rather see a new UT99-style game being done rather than seeing a port (besides being illegal to do so). Plus the engine Quake uses is inferior to UEngine. Yes, it has some neat things, but that's about it afaik, overall UEngine is lighter and has more hidden potential.

Aaaaaand.. I think we're derailing this thread, my apologies MrLoathsome.
So back to topic please.

[[]KAOS[]Casey]

You just need to change the package flags. this does not effect the GUID and can't cause a version mismatch.

[MrLoathsome]

I never have changed a package flag. It sounds like a lot of work.

[UT99.org]

manually, it would be. This tool I mentioned does it in batches. Mentioned by me here http://www.ut99.org/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=4312

Theres another thread here that says ut2004 files in ut99 is illegal but vice-versa is not - if that holds any significance to what you asked

[JackGriffin]

I never have changed a package flag. It sounds like a lot of work.

It can be to understand the byte structure but it's a gift that will forever keep giving once you suss it out. UDL edits the "Do not download" flag alone but you ought to take the time to read the files with Choco (or any good hex editor) before and after UDL does it's thing so you can begin to understand how the process works. It will take some patience as direct hex editing is complex with UEngine's way of doing things.

There used to be a good page with lots of default flags and great package information for this sort of thing but it was gone the last time I googled for it. Did anyone bother to grab a copy? I'd love to see it posted up if you did. IIRC it was this guy's page: http://www.acordero.org/

Using UDL is as simple as running a command line batch file. It'll take you 10 minutes from download to finished but don't leave it at that. Once you can hex edit you open up a world of possibilities.

[Feralidragon]

Hex editing a file is far simpler than it looks. If you use UTPT (I think it allows for this) and have the package binary docs at hand, it's rather simple to identify the exact spots you want to change. Of course, once you start reading the docs you may get a bit confused at first, but eventually things start to make sense.

Theres another thread here that says ut2004 files in ut99 is illegal but vice-versa is not - if that holds any significance to what you asked

Yes, they mention we can use any content from prior titles in UT2k4, so we're left to assume the other way around isn't allowed.
But then again, tons of mods and maps were released with them, and Epic is aware of plenty of mods and my own mod ReadMe states the UT resources used (and I assume they have read it to post it up?), and when there's something they find to be off they send emails (Shadow got one once years ago because of his SDK, and it was resolved later when Shadow clarified that he wasn't modifying the engine, funny cool story actually), or ban (BlackCheetah's UT2k4 Extreme is a clear example, given that it had game binaries) so I think it's ok to use them, and even the greatest mappers always assumed they could do the same and were never called out on it, so... perhaps they don't mind if it's UT-only resources between the games.
But perhaps we could ask them directly to clear those doubts up, but either cases just be sure to credit the source in the ReadMe (like I always did).