OpenGL vs Direct3D

[rsbloom44]

I don't think any newer systems have a problem running either direct3d or opengl. I can use both fine, but I prefer direct3d9 simply because when I tab out of UT it has no affect on the brightness. As for a 'brightness hack' it's not really a hack they are just changing the gamma offset in either of the renders. As far as skills goes if you set them both up the same the difference is really unnoticeable, at least that has been my experience. Quite a few amazing deck16 players use d3d9.

[Chamberly]

You mean coronas? They should be disabled by changing Coronas=False under UnrealTournament.ini.
What kind of video card do you have, CPU, amount of RAM?

You can get OpenGL renderer changelog here: http://www.cwdohnal.com/utglr/

I completely forgot what does the Coronas do. lol.

PC Info-
CPU: AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 3600+ 1.90 GHz
RAM: 4 GB (using 32 bit os tho, so only 3.25 usable. never maxed it out yet.) Upgraded to the max here.
Graphic card: ATI Radeon HD 4600 Series (1024 MB) only something I could find.
Dell Dimension E521 (built for multitasking and medias, but I ended up playing UT99 and other games on it just fine lol.)

Additional info of OpenGL Properties: http://www.r0t.co.uk/paste/p/ut9P3c54.html
Current in use UT99 driver: http://www.r0t.co.uk/paste/p/tidRje87.html

Now I do have a laptop and both OpenGL and Direct3D do run on it but it have a weird setting that it change the screen brightness when I try to change my UT's window size from full screen to regular. It is using OpenGL right now tho... sometimes I think my laptop settings isn't perfect b/c it get so bright and then so dark. lol. I'll post that stuff later.

So do you think there is some settings that OpenGL can run on my pc according to my graphic card?

[RocketJedi]

even though my laptop has an ATI card I still use open GL even with the brightness issues because the fps is much higher and steady. d3d 10 works really well too, just not as good as open gl for some reason

[Raynor]

Chamberly,
It was years ago when I had to deal with OpenGL brightness issue and that was fixed with driver update (ATI video card). That's why it's important to get the latest drivers available. Also make sure your Catalyst Control Center does not handle some game settings like Anti Aliasing and Anisotropic Filtering.

Your Direct3D9 has some weird settings, like MaxAnisotropy=5 (valid values are 4, 8, 16). Also FrameRateLimit over 200 can cause inconstant speeds in offline mode.

If you want to use OpenGL, then try these settings:

Code: Select all

ZRangeHack=True
NoAATiles=True
NumAASamples=1
UseAA=False
MaskedTextureHack=True
SmoothMaskedTextures=False
SceneNodeHack=True
FrameRateLimit=120
SwapInterval=0
UseFragmentProgram=True
UseMultiDrawArrays=True
TexDXT1ToDXT3=False
DynamicTexIdRecycleLevel=100
CacheStaticMaps=True
UseTexPool=True
UseTexIdPool=True
UseSSE2=True
UseSSE=True
BufferTileQuads=True
SinglePassDetail=False
SinglePassFog=True
ColorizeDetailTextures=False
DetailClipping=False
DetailMax=2
RefreshRate=0
MaxTMUnits=0
NoFiltering=False
MaxAnisotropy=8
Use16BitTextures=False
UseS3TC=True
UseAlphaPalette=True
UseTrilinear=True
UsePrecache=True
ShareLists=False
UsePalette=True
UseMultiTexture=True
UseBGRATextures=True
UseZTrick=False
MaxLogTextureSize=12
MinLogTextureSize=0
OneXBlending=False
GammaCorrectScreenshots=False
GammaOffsetBlue=0.000000
GammaOffsetGreen=0.000000
GammaOffsetRed=0.000000
GammaOffset=0.000000
LODBias=-1.000000
DetailTextures=True
DescFlags=0
Description=
HighDetailActors=True
Coronas=False
ShinySurfaces=True
VolumetricLighting=True

And here's Direct3D9 settings for testing:

Code: Select all

ZRangeHack=True
NoAATiles=True
NumAASamples=1
UseAA=False
UseSoftwareVertexProcessing=False
UsePureDevice=True
UseTripleBuffering=True
MaskedTextureHack=True
SmoothMaskedTextures=False
SceneNodeHack=True
FrameRateLimit=120
SwapInterval=0
UseFragmentProgram=True
TexDXT1ToDXT3=False
DynamicTexIdRecycleLevel=100
CacheStaticMaps=True
UseTexPool=True
UseTexIdPool=True
UseSSE2=True
UseSSE=True
SinglePassDetail=False
SinglePassFog=True
ColorizeDetailTextures=False
DetailClipping=False
DetailMax=2
RefreshRate=0
MaxTMUnits=0
NoFiltering=False
MaxAnisotropy=8
Use565Textures=False
Use16BitTextures=False
UseS3TC=True
UseTrilinear=True
UsePrecache=True
UseMultiTexture=True
MaxLogTextureSize=8
MinLogTextureSize=0
OneXBlending=False
GammaCorrectScreenshots=False
GammaOffsetBlue=0.000000
GammaOffsetGreen=0.000000
GammaOffsetRed=0.000000
GammaOffset=0.000000
LODBias=-1.000000
DetailTextures=True
DescFlags=0
Description=
HighDetailActors=True
Coronas=False
ShinySurfaces=True
VolumetricLighting=True

[Chamberly]

I do remember downloading those stuff and messing around with it. Anyway I went ahead and try to find the update and install it and I got confused if I did install it or just downloaded something else. I just gotta find that ati graphic settings but I think I installed something that changed that. pff. hate this stuff... I basically had it all until I had to download something and now it's gone. i'm really pissed. now on i won't do anything with drivers update.

Will try those and let you know when I'm done messing around.

[Raynor]

Go to http://support.amd.com/en-us/download
Select your options and download the package.

[Dr.Flay]

People often start this discussion without checking if the Direct3D or Direct3D9 renderers were being used, or if they are comparing ATI and nVidia cards.
There is a massive difference between the original renderers, as the original GL renderer was beta and incomplete.
The modern renderers have little difference between them, as Chris Dohnal tried very hard to make all the features common to both.
Same again for the newer renderers from Oldunreal (which I advise you try, as they have several fixes).
http://www.oldunreal.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?board=2
http://www.oldunreal.com/utpatches.html

nVidia users don't have to worry about any of this.

My choice of renderer is based on setting both renderers with the same settings, and playing UT with some monitoring software (ATI Tray Tools).
The important info is RAM speed and size. PC Wizard can show you all the important info, and it is also grouped together on the over-clockers menu.
My 32bit system (using Extreme-end textures);
SYS RAM 1GB, DDR 400
GFX RAM 512MB, DDR 640
As you can see the RAM on the GFX card is faster than the system RAM.
I ran the same map for a short time with both renderers, while monitoring RAM usage.

Updated the URL

As you can see, using DirectX there is a dip in my GFX RAM chart, so UT is using my GFX card properly.
However when using OpenGL, for some reason texture data is not transferred to the GFX card (see the flat-line).

This means my 1GB of slower RAM is having to do all the work, there is less available, and the GFX card is not doing very much.
On this configuration, OpenGL is not an option, but If I had 2GB of DDR 800 RAM it would be the other way around.

http://www.guru3d.com/article/ati-tray-tools-/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATI_Tray_Tools
http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/pc-wizard.html
http://my.opera.com/Unreal-Tournament/b ... ak-windows

The use of the newer features in DX10 will split people, the same way using S3TC compressed textures, or the newer ChaosUT does.
However Some of the extra features of the DX10 renderer can be used in a way that is still compatible for anyone using DX9 or GL .
The bump-maps mentioned by Ferali are added to folders, not the texture pack.
This means XP users get what they always have, but Visa+ users get a bonus.
Most Importantly it means there will be no clash of packages so game servers and clients are happy and compatible.
It also means bump-maps could be made for any existing map or texture pack, so the Hi-res texture packs could be pimped even more.

BTW. I have noticed differences in the packs from UTTextures. Depending on the size of pack you pick, some of the textures are different

[Raynor]

Nice info Dr.Flay.
I'm curious how does the oldunreal's OpenGL differ over Dohnal's latest versions, is there any changelog or features/fixes list available?

[Chamberly]

Go to http://support.amd.com/en-us/download
Select your options and download the package.

Been there... not what I was looking for. Something for the CCC or some control system where you can see in 3Ds or w/e... it just gone. drivers are already updated I guess.

Very nice Dr.Flay!

[Dr.Flay]

There are some tweaks to fix things. Transparent textures can be a pain if they are not supposed to be. Frags Xmas map has an example of that, where you can see objects through the wall of the church.
I think the wiki just lists info relating to Chris Dohnals versions, as that is what was added to Unreal 227 (UT has the newer tweaked build)
http://www.oldunreal.com/wiki/index.php ... 3D8_/_D3D9

I can't find a history file or build info, so until the final release, Smirftsch is the man with the answers

[Feralidragon]

The use of the newer features in DX10 will split people, the same way using S3TC compressed textures, or the newer ChaosUT does.
However Some of the extra features of the DX10 renderer can be used in a way that is still compatible for anyone using DX9 or GL .
The bump-maps mentioned by Ferali are added to folders, not the texture pack.
This means XP users get what they always have, but Visa+ users get a bonus.

I must mention, that regardless of how you add the bumpmaps (folders or to the texture package itself), the map will always be compatible with other renderers. The key difference is that by putting them in separate folders, you can add and modify the bump mapping any time you want without modifying the original texture package, even after releasing a first lower-quality version of the map, just like S3TC.
The downside, is that unless you have a mechanism to transfer the separate bumpmaps, people with DX10 but who never played that map online straight from the server won't see said features, unless the bumpmaps are already included within the texture package itself.

[Dr.Flay]

Good point. Ease of use is often a compromise.
I guess people could use it as a "feature"

When you join a server, you could see the message;
"Visit our site to pimp the map"

[Feralidragon]

In my case (when I get around to use it myself that is):

Spoiler

I was thinking more in the lines of developing my own multi-threaded download system, where one thread downloads the map essentials in order to run, and another optional thread which downloads the extra stuff based on the renderer being used and other settings (even during gameplay to not delay the map open) in parallel with the first one (if there's bandwidth available to not slow down the first thread), then at the end it would load them up while already playing the game (once the player died or so just in case there's a slow down it doesn't get in the way).
This new system would probably support .zip and .rar compressed packages, and have it's own caching system, besides being able to define proper (multiple) redirect end-points.

But that's just one of the things I want to do for my next project (along with many others, some of which I have yet to experiment with), and it will take some time before I can get around to do it...

... so for now the only full working option is to include them in the texture package itself. The *online* player won't download the extra stuff unless there's a lot of noise around it and if the player hangs out or lurks around the community, so the message way wouldn't really be that effective imho.
The offline/community player probably would, but in that case he would download the complete thing regardless, so...

[Red_Fist]

OpenGL always looks the best.

Even for other games, it's like for directX things are either too black or too white, they just look more cartoonish.
UT2004 had that look, like a cartoon painting rather than nice blended 3d I could never make it look right.

I would say maybe in the past 3 years or less with directX how it looks is finally getting things to look smooth and nice.
DirectX problems is they intermix the machine hardware so bad that there is no way to make it look right, or have the resolution between windows and games not screw everything up.

The thing I can say for sure, is, in UT (for 3 different computers now or 4) if you hit ALT TAB in directX it takes like a minute to get back into the game.
Then the mouse pointer gets stuck to the middle of the screen.

In OpenGL, all my systems since after my Voodoo card, I can ALT TAB lightning fast, the screen brightness stays in tact, and no mouse pointer.
I think OpenGL is much more compatible and looks nicer than directX for UT99.

I also think OpenGL is made for graphics in mind, directX is made with the hardware in mind first.

But for new games DirectX is finaly doing better, much better looking, than older DirectX.

I bought one of the very first ATI 4meg cards blabbing about what was then new I think it was version 3 "DirectX functionality" yadda yadda yadda.
The system was like having to do tricky little things, or first do one thing before another so it wouldn't mess up the resolution, mouse lockups, crashes, terrible looking, sounds sputter, because they simply relied on the machine hardware way too much.

But back then OpenGL was for creating graphics, and is probably why people say it's for learning, I always use openGL if possible.

Matter of fact this is the game right here I got free with my new ATI $270 vid card in 1997.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planet_of_Death
And have despised DirectX since then.