Anticheat development?

[Wises]

HWID is actually I very good idea..

Also for stats programs like AutoTeamBalance which could use some updates and other mods

+1 to keep it.

Also afaik the only working version of ace9c was the one which face had..

Glad to hear that you are still working on it.. and the newer releases sound like they are going to be pretty awesome.

8h has been pretty good to us for the last 2years be nice for a new upgrade.

Also perhaps you could hard-code in a little ban manager / client checker system would be wicked.

Coupled with spectator validation and checks as well would help.. with the 'Troll via spec' problems..

Anyway great news :tu

Takecare

[UT99.org]

I want to keep it but as a regular DLL and not part of the anti-cheat. I would do all the GUI to notify the user to consent before any of the info is taken from their computer. It's being abused and these HWID changers wouldn't even exist if it wasn't abused. The irony is the players using the cheats obviously don't care about wrecking their computer and would have no problem installing their whole windows if they needed to

DLLs can be copyrighted and any server trying to get around this would be in breach and publicly shamed. Even though I beleive my position on this is right for the game and everyone and will fight for it to be this way, I am sure there is some middle ground somewhere. If it comes to writing the DLL for HWIDs myself I should at least be able to detect for hooks. And no UTDC does not support 64bit OS so that is out of the question, probably outdated any bypassed now anyhow

@Wises you are right that spectators don't get checked, this could be added without a public uproar without being intrusive it simply asks permission first. Consider at the moment you are saving their HWID while available and then retrieving it while they are in spectator it's not always going to work correctly with two players on a LAN sharing the same UT folder. Not if they join as a spectator without playing first it's not going to be accurate or able to tell them apart. Also, were you not the one who suggested having several servers and good players were sent "up" a server and bad players "down". And now you are mentioning stat systems, I think I rest my case.

[aZ.Boy]

I can't release the source code since ACE is now part of a bigger project that is under NDA. That being said, I AM still working on it (though - due to various circumstances - I've had very very little time to do so in the past 2 years) and I'm aiming to get 2 new releases out this year. v0.9d will only be a minor protection update but should address most of the bugs people have been experiencing in the v0.9c beta and v1.0 should be a major projection update.

idd great news
thanks for letting us know that you are still working in the ACE project, you gave us a new hope!

HWID is actually I very good idea..

Also for stats programs like AutoTeamBalance which could use some updates and other mods

+1 to keep it.

Also afaik the only working version of ace9c was the one which face had..

Glad to hear that you are still working on it.. and the newer releases sound like they are going to be pretty awesome.

8h has been pretty good to us for the last 2years be nice for a new upgrade.

Also perhaps you could hard-code in a little ban manager / client checker system would be wicked.

Coupled with spectator validation and checks as well would help.. with the 'Troll via spec' problems..

Anyway great news :tu

Takecare

+1

[UT99.org]

Did you even read my post aZ.Boy. It's alright I'm sure he will tally the numbers at some point. Theres probably nothing left to say on my part. You are +1ing the checking of spectators for cheats?

[aZ.Boy]

Did you even read my post aZ.Boy. It's alright I'm sure he will tally the numbers at some point. Theres probably nothing left to say on my part. You are +1ing the checking of spectators for cheats?

Well i did read it and fully respect your opinion however i see the things in a different way so yeah i agree with the suggestion of checking spectators in general that's why adding my voice to Wises suggestion

I believe spectators being able to evade the ban brings nothing except the trouble for the server admins so it would be a nice feature indeed.

[Wises]

The hwid system concept is good for several reasons however more importantly;

1.) Proper indentification of players (ie: stats)
2.) Ability to detect and remove annoyances.

Re: spectator checks... it is the admins RIGHT? To be able to have such systems
In place... for their servers imo. JUST as it is the Players CHOICE to choose to play / observe (spec)
On the server provided by the admin.

Not the other way ...

"Players right to play on servers , admins Choice to install ... etc"

Failing to check all connected clients is leaving a hole open to exploitation imo
This also proposes a security risk to the said servers.

Closing this hole allows admins to sleep easy.. knowing that .. if , the need arises to
Remove problematic 'clients' from THEIR servers ... that the system will enforce this
Policy FULLY...

As you well know... of this exploitable hole.. Which you seem to be adamant to keep open... why?
You have the choice to not-install ACE as it has Eula's and all sorts of info.. which states clearly what it does.

Admins do what they can... to ensure players have the best experience whilst utilising their servers without feeling uneasy about some random sitting in spec.. abusing players or worse...possibly entering numerous commands into their consoles trying to get access to the server?

These tactics you will remember you yourself practiced on many servers.. fake adminlogins (from spec) ... even authenticated admin logins.. due to the default pwd in ut.ini (security risk) .. and restarting the server .. after abusing players beforehand.
Add to this your aliasing as real admins in the process ... defamation and all sorts of.. *

€No wonder you spend so much time over @ utcheats (is it still online?) .. because you are notoriously trying to evade detection and bans on a global scale. Instead of being respectful to fellow players on others servers... this is of concern to many of us... if not all.

What I think may work would be a serverside traffic analysis system.. which monitors normal user (client) traffic and learns.. the differences between normal and hackish.. traffic for starters.

Add to this checks for incorrect adminlogin(attempts) and time based kicks.. with logging.
Ability to email admins with GPG encryption protocols.. hackish behavourisms.. automatically.
Better formatted log files for stats on players who join.

[UT99.org]

No I believe if you host a server for the public you should ask first but thats not middle ground. The two DLL system is probably the middle ground here, I'd prefer the warning because if they already have the package installed there is not much preventing them handing over this information unwillingly. At the moment there is what you mentioned as a hole. Although it's not really a hole because they are not playing and a hook wouldn't affect other players. Pure and other anti-cheats don't enter this realm either. Really, I couldn't care less what you do with your own server. But was the suggestion of adding HWIDs into Ace to start with for this? Let's say for argument's sake that it was and we have now seen the results. HWID generators that people change money for. I predict if these draconian suggestions get their way again there will be a rise in "fake clients" who are only designed to retrieve serverpackage lists while not joining even as a spectator. I'm not sure how bad these fake clients could really be or if they can be blocked. I am sure there are other reasons a spectator wouldn't want to be checked for cheats constantly like their OS, a slow computer, maybe they need a radar on screen? maybe they have a hook that is not necessarily a bad hook (I'm not suggesting this is a possibility and this would break EPIC's Eula). They can still be "HWID checked" if the DLL takes a HWID only with the two DLL system.

Anyway I feel like some of the stuff I'm saying is not getting through so maybe I should await a few posts and make counter points more clearly

[Wises]

So your concerns are related to the other info (aside from hwid) which is logged..

What if an admin needed to use for example: your computer specs as a search query because you bought and paid for a hwid ban evader from.. * then were back harrasing players?

Perhaps you should go back over there and ask liens for a computer name spoofer as well lmao.

Honestly...

[UT99.org]

Who logs computer names? Wouldn't there be double ups? Well good luck trying to get spectators checked. I'll use your line here if it's YOUR server shouldn't you be allowed to use cheats there as a spectator, to check other players, maybe to post publicly or whatever. I'm messing with your head here you have suggested admin radars to use from spectator multiple times for this purpose multiple times on other threads. Surely you are not suggesting making exceptions for some hosts and not others in anti-cheats?. Spectator or non spectator it's black and white. The simplest argument should win even if I am trying to convince people to change and adapt instead of keeping the norm. I actually would've let you make some valid points and only responded because of your childish continuation of what you were doing in the last post. Please, are you not the one who always tells people not to assume things and uses the most retarded phrase I've ever heard in my life something about A SS U ME makes an ass our of you and me.

[Wises]

Admin radar

Theory: use a LEGIT tool to catch a ILLEGAL one.

In fact just a wallhack glitch like the one you used to use would probably suffice.

I did comment somewhere some ideas on how to avoid such hacks awhile ago.. which involved serverside only methods
But it was I think put into the 'too hard basket &/or private one's this method basically involved:

Only sending other player visual data if in line of site of the client. But I think it was a bit tricky.. or over looked.

Maybe because it would be hard to capture partial bodyparts.. heads etc idk.

For instance ; a square room with 4 boxes 3/4's player mesh height. Spaced out into 4 corners.

The server would check to see which direction client is facing and then seek obstacles.. and return only the players head (if standing) & if client is facing that direction.

Problems raised were detection of windows and such.. but detection of invisible collision hulls I think could fix that.
Also non-transparent sheet detection.. (issues with zone sheets i guess) ie; curse / belt.. pocket.. would need to be concealed from client.

As well as any/all actors... pickups / powerups etc...

Also... had it NOT been for ppl like you messing with our heads/servers... then UT would last a bit longer but well

You know... is not the case.. unfortunately.

As for spectator checks .. they are comming.. soonish

Btw, what is your concern here in this statement?

"It's being abused and these HWID changers wouldn't even exist if it wasn't abused. "

in what way is the sodimizer being sodimized?

[UT99.org]

Well I'm glad you somehow managed to get this back on topic, despite the hormonal tirade.

The situation as it is means HWID is worthless for anything because these changers exist. It could be made use of for other reasons than to ban people. I am trying to put myself in your shoes here you are banning them for breaking some rules and then worried about them rejoining while you are not around? Get some more admins or something, thats what I would do. But if the tools are there use 'em, right. I can understand that argument. Everyone bans players for breaking rules. What I don't get is these non cheating players try and make a new start obviously handicapped on another hostname and you are expecting (or want) it to automatically kick them even if no admins are around because they are still ban evading, right?. You are still wanting to spy and totally control the server and see through their new IP new name etc and don't care if they are not breaking the rules any more? Just say why you need it and why we can't dev around it and cheat makers can make money and maybe I will understand better

As a dev I see this being abused to the point there is no using it if it's being abused for ban purposes and there are now changers that wouldn't even exist if it was never abused in the first place

Does that book you refer to not have some phrases that could apply here like treat others how you would like to be treated. Hypothetically I could argue how about all you admins who want what you are advocating pay the creators of these changers more than what they are making to NOT share them then everyone will be happy. Having said that I am seriously considering purchasing a copy if the only reason you want mods like this is to personally spy and try and control "your server". Or if everyone did it "the game". I don't think others are as paranoid as you though and this is not the first forum where it's been mentioned that you want to control every aspect of a dead game. I will give you the same advice which is to move on.

And relax I just want to see things more clearly from your perspective. Whether or not both public or private servers should be able to do this without getting consent is a decision that should be for author with the wider community's thoughts taken into account

[aZ.Boy]

Well I'm glad you somehow managed to get this back on topic, despite the hormonal tirade.

The situation as it is means HWID is worthless for anything because these changers exist. It could be made use of for other reasons than to ban people. I am trying to put myself in your shoes here you are banning them for breaking some rules and then worried about them rejoining while you are not around? Get some more admins or something, thats what I would do. But if the tools are there use 'em, right. I can understand that argument. Everyone bans players for breaking rules. What I don't get is these non cheating players try and make a new start obviously handicapped on another hostname and you are expecting (or want) it to automatically kick them even if no admins are around because they are still ban evading, right?. You are still wanting to spy and totally control the server and see through their new IP new name etc and don't care if they are not breaking the rules any more? Just say why you need it and why we can't dev around it and cheat makers can make money and maybe I will understand better

I can't understand what's the big deal about adding a feature to allow the admins to check the HWID/spectators in general though I'm trying to get your point but still can't... If it's optional then it's up to the admin himself to decide whether to add it or not, as it's simple why do you have to go through the trouble of recruiting much admins (which results in admin abuse most of time) just to take care of a troublemaker or a cheater? if you don't want someone to play in your server it's your choice to be honest, you are who paying for the server.

of course the methods to evade the bans are endless but well that goes for every method, if we fellow the same theory and does nothing about it we are not going to ban anyone i guess.

the non cheater players usually get the chance but to be honest most of them act the same way when they evade the bans because they are thinking that they are smarter than the admin i would prefer if he asks me for a new chance and promise me to behave then he can have his new start, I'm talking about my personal admin experience though.

Also it's as simple as that you pay for you own server so it's up to you to decide who is allowed to join and who is not.

I'm not trying to take part in the argument though, I'm just expressing my own opinion based on my admin experience.

At the end it's just some suggestions Anth don't have to consider it if it's useless suggestions, as i believe he got much more experience than us to judge at this point tbh so it's up to him to decide anyway.

[Higor]

@Wises, most of those are heuristic checks and may be incompatible with certain mods.
It's still a good way to let admins know if a player accumulates too much 'anticheat heuristic points' during a game, so they can be inspected and screenshotted/evaluated (memory dump on engine binaries and packages, sent to servers, references could be resolved as well).

[Wises]

>> YES
that my friend is an AWESOME idea.

lets go down that track instead

[[rev]rato.skt]

Another option that would be very good, but a scan would slow the anticheat to not spend too much memory for those who have server on computers but old...