Terms of Service for the 333networks Master Server

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Darkelarious
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Terms of Service for the 333networks Master Server

Post by Darkelarious »

In the thread http://www.ut99.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t ... 105#p63367 Dr.Flay mentioned a Terms of Service (ToS).

For those not caught up; 333networks hosts a master server. There are no clear rules on what information 333networks stores, what servers are or are not allowed to uplink to it, which clients or client programs are allowed to use it and more of those trivial issues.

At this moment, it mostly contains just the standard/generic things that everybody writes. I would like all of you, as part of the community, to help me draft a better one in this thread. This thread is meant as a discussion. People can argue whether person X's suggestion is a good one or not. But most importantly, when you disagree, come with serious and constructive arguments. Everybody can make suggestions, but keep in mind that your suggestion requires correct reasoning. Repeating flawed arguments will not make it true.

Essentially, what I need from you:
The indications for querying, what you as admin/player agree on, privacy, feedback, transparency, etcetera. What do you expect from 333networks, what can 333networks expect from the people using it? What happens when somebody does not keep to those rules? What are the rules for blacklisting a server, how many people and which people need to agree on when a server should be blacklisted? And in which conditions un-blacklisted? Or referring to Billybill's argument, what will be the rules about synchronizing master servers amongst each other? If EpicGames and other game vendors/devs happen to be reading, which are the appropriate copyright terms for ALL supported games?

The current Terms of Service are these.
Spoiler
Terms of use
This website is intended as indication for the status the 333networks master server. Neither 333networks nor its participants are liable or responsible for the accuracy or completeness of any information provided on this website.

This website and the master server are presented as-is. If you are not satisfied with the information or service that 333networks provides, you can either accept that, or stop using 333networks' services. This master server project and website are a recreational project by volunteers. There are no contracts. No paylists. No taxes. No fees. No (legal) subscriptions. No premium accounts. Only this website and master server project. 333networks and its people do their best to keep the master server and websites up and up to date. If you want 333networks to become better in any sort of way, you may consider getting involved or making a donation.

Privacy
The server addresses (consisting of an IP address and port) are all obtained via publicly accessible methods and/or direct uplinks. The address list is generated automatically. It is your responsibility to make a server "public" according to the game's settings, if you want your server address removed from this page, you must disable the game's settings that make your server "public". It takes between 1 and 10 hours before your game is then automatically removed.

Copyright
All rights in multimedia materials on this website are reserved to 333networks unless otherwise stated. None of the multimedia materials on this website is allowed to be used or copied without the explicit permissions from 333networks or the rightful owners of copyrighted material. If a copyright holder does not approve their work being displayed, please contact the website administrator. All original designs, graphics and content on this website, unless otherwise stated, are property of 333networks. Any merchandize related to this site is NOT AUTHORIZED without explicit permissions from 333networks or the rightful owners of copyrighted material.

All games presented on this website are property of the rightful owners of copyrighted material. For rights, refer to the game's distributor.
Please provide text, suggestions, pros or cons of any consideration, and most importantly, constructive feedback towards each other. Together, we will write these terms of service, every so many posts I will post an updated version with everything that I think is correctly established by us all.
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Oh, and we still are ready to receive donations. The url works, right? It doesn't seem to be doing anything...
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Re: Terms of Service for the 333networks Master Server

Post by UT99.org »

billybill wrote:You can do what you want, guy. It's billybill not Billybill, this is the internet, not a post card. Others have taken the same opinion, like I just said nobody is forcing you to do anything. I did have a question for you, but I have completely forgotten it since I assumed you weren't coming back

Here is one, all those servers that send NOTHING to you, yet you start initiating packets to them... And don't stop if they are still on a list you steal from. Well, I hope you have a good legal team. No question.
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Re: Terms of Service for the 333networks Master Server

Post by papercoffee »

billybill wrote: Here is one, all those servers that send NOTHING to you, yet you start initiating packets to them... And don't stop if they are still on a list you steal from. Well, I hope you have a good legal team. No question.
Do you try to stir up the shit again?
Where are your facts?

Please keep this discussion here on topic.
(btw. Darkelarious, why is this thread in the off-topic section??)

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Re: Terms of Service for the 333networks Master Server

Post by Higor »

Keep these 2 here for server admins:

"Artificially altering the player count on the main server status will lead to removal of the server on the master list, you may contact the administrator if you feel this is an error"
"Your server may still display an extended player list including spectators and bots as long as they're tagged as such"
UT99.org

Re: Terms of Service for the 333networks Master Server

Post by UT99.org »

billybill wrote:
papercoffee wrote:
billybill wrote: Here is one, all those servers that send NOTHING to you, yet you start initiating packets to them... And don't stop if they are still on a list you steal from. Well, I hope you have a good legal team. No question.
Do you try to stir up the shit again?
Where are your facts?

Please keep this discussion here on topic.
I don't actually need proof in this case since he admits to it. I can post logs if you don't understand

His post was directed towards me, my name is in the words and he couldn't even spell it right because he is TRYING to troll me. I don't care if he spells my name wrong, or gets his computers confiscated. I am making a failed attempt to stop him having his friends modify people's games to make them unplayable

So if anyone is stirring shit it's our shady friend here. Also, Ferali's post in the older thread states something like this "I never read the thread but you need proof that is what he is doing" when I was posting examples of how it could be abused. Maybe it was out of context how I wrote it, or difficult to understand if english is your second language. I can only try and clarify what other people don't understand, and it helps if you look into the issue and read all the posts

Higor is right on the button when he says if server owner can readily find information on changing master servers then they should just as easily find info to crash-proof them (paraphrase), I notice this excellent quotation got lost somewhere

One more thing Paper, I respect you as an admin, I actually have no idea who you are apart from that. I got mad when you ruined the chicken thread for me and called you one of the N words. Please know the reason I have not come down on you is not so much because I value my membership here but because I thought you were a female. Like I said I honestly don't know who you are
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Re: Terms of Service for the 333networks Master Server

Post by UnrealGGecko »

No offence bill, but you're way overreacting. If there is something wrong about the master server, please don't troll about it, but explain it politely, extensively and with facts/proof (what papercoffee said).
His post was directed towards me, my name is in the words and he couldn't even spell it right because he is TRYING to troll me.
I wonder what would happen if everyone reacted like that by a capped 1st letter :ironic2:. Noone is trying to troll you (if they would, better methods would be used :twisted:). Dark didn't react in the best way possible eigher, but let bygones be bygones, please.
Sorry for the rant, but I just can't take this war anymore. :cry:
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Re: Terms of Service for the 333networks Master Server

Post by TheDane »

The TOS currently only reflect servers as I see in the top post?

I would like to add the clients too, escpecialy in the privacy terms? What promises do the client get when using this master server? What information will be transfered from client to server and back again? What ports will be opened if any?
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Re: Terms of Service for the 333networks Master Server

Post by Spectra »

billybill wrote:One more thing Paper, I respect you as an admin, I actually have no idea who you are apart from that. I got mad when you ruined the chicken thread for me and called you one of the N words. Please know the reason I have not come down on you is not so much because I value my membership here but because I thought you were a female. Like I said I honestly don't know who you are
Dude, at least Control your tongue in front of Admin!
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Re: Terms of Service for the 333networks Master Server

Post by papercoffee »

Darkelarious wrote:Or referring to Billybill's argument
Yes he mentioned your concerns ...where is the problem?
Or is it possible that you misread his post?

Trolling by writing your name the wrong way?
OMG... This is over reacting at its best!
billybill wrote:Paper
Did you troll me now? Should I kick your butt because you wrote my nickname wrong??
I tell you what I do now ...I don't give a fuck.
As long as you don't insult me like "Toiletpaper" or "Starbucks-coffee" is everything ok.
billybill wrote:Please know the reason I have not come down on you is not so much because I value my membership here but because I thought you were a female
What IF I am female?

Ok ...we shouldn't derail this thread with this nonsense ...keep on topic (all of you)
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Re: Terms of Service for the 333networks Master Server

Post by noccer »

I like what Higor wrote
Higor wrote:Keep these 2 here for server admins:

"Artificially altering the player count on the main server status will lead to removal of the server on the master list, you may contact the administrator if you feel this is an error"
"Your server may still display an extended player list including spectators and bots as long as they're tagged as such"
I found "myself" on some server and wanted to have a look who took my name, after connecting it came out, there is no player. This was one of the servers which collect names and use them in the playerinfo from time to time.
For me it is no problem if one would have a bot with my name "playing" on his server, but in a faked playerinfo it is a NO GO! So Players and Spectators in the playerinfo yes. But please no bots.
Your InstaCTF servers do it on a great way ;)
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>>You can't steal any ip (v4)adresses, there are exactly 4294967296 of them, and they will still exist when you wrote down all of them, or are stored in a (master)servers database ;)<<
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Re: Terms of Service for the 333networks Master Server

Post by TheDane »

TheDane wrote:The TOS currently only reflect servers as I see in the top post?

I would like to add the clients too, escpecialy in the privacy terms? What promises do the client get when using this master server? What information will be transfered from client to server and back again? What ports will be opened if any?
> bumping to get back on topic.

If the Epic server is back online it will not be relevant to me, but I think many others like me would like to know what promises are made? Adter all the client needs to add a server actor to his install - a serveractor opening for data communication with an in theory unknown service wich can be altered at any time.
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Re: Terms of Service for the 333networks Master Server

Post by Darkelarious »

Quick update with what I picked up from this thread so far;

Master Server:
- no meddling with player count
- definition of meddling -- specs/bots count as such, as well as ghosts in the query
- doing so gets you blacklisted
- mistakes/arguments are emailed to the administrator(s)
-

UT servers, when uplinking...
- you agree to have your IP sent to other clients (essentially the same that happens in UT / Ubrowser now)
- you agree on receiving status requests (from both UT clients and 333networks server info)
- you agree on being shown on the website
- you can stop uplinking at any given moment/time with the understanding that it takes (define time) hours before you are permanently removed from the db.
- you agree not to spam our servers with uplinks (add rate/min) or to get blacklisted when violating this directive
- if you want your server removed immediately, contact and admin to get yourself blacklisted
- mistakes/arguments are made to the administrator(s)
- To do: statements on opened ports, vulnerability countermeasures like secure/validate, referring to sent/received data
-

UT Clients (players), when downlinking...
- you agree on not abusing the server list (liability statement on 333nw's behalf -- you are not allowed to use 333nw for malicious intents)
- you agree not to spam 333nw with downlink requests (rate/min)
- 333nw will not display client-specific info on the website
- 333nw keeps public stats about visitor numbers (anonymously, but not yet implemented)
- To do: statements on opened ports, vulnerability countermeasures like secure/validate, referring to sent/received data
- 333nw is allowed to deny you access to the master server AND website if you violate the abuse/spam rules above

Website:
- you don't need to provide personal information
- information provided as is -- no guarantee that it's still accurate / up to date; no liability -- if you manage to get serious damage (beyond our imagination) because information on the site was correct, 333nw cannot be hold liable/responsible
- 333nw is not responsible for server content (in other words, we don't care or have anything to do with pornographic material on your server, or some other filth that other server administrators make a fuzz about)
- being blacklisted prevents your server from showing up, no matter the reason of blacklisting (enforced or voluntarily)
- voluntary blacklists can be undone upon request at the admin
-

And most importantly: everything remains and will remain free of charge.

Which rules/directions/preferences am I still missing?

Note: I say "UT" servers, but that refers to all games that are supported by the 333nw master server. The term "UT" may be substituted for another other game in the list.
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Re: Terms of Service for the 333networks Master Server

Post by aZ.Boy »

Hello,

Firstly I would like to thank 333network for their efforts and nice to see more master servers to keep this game alive, I've some concern about the master server therefore i decided to jump in this thread.

Before stating my opinion i would like to say that I believe in freedom as i always think that the strict rules aren't always the best solution nor the wise thing.

I'm not experienced in master server stuff and hardly understand how it works but i am simply stating my opinion in term of service in general. I honestly think it's a bit too harsh to remove any server from master server in general for whatever the reason is specially if we are talking about a popular server except when this server is really harming the other servers (Like nicklaming community/server name) or the master server in general.

Just to be clear I'm not defending those servers which uses the fake players, I'm simply trying to say that some of the popular servers which uses this mod can be killed for being blacklisted.

Another thing I'm afraid of is the personal problems which usually results in admin power abuse, what if removing servers being abused by any of the 333network admins? what would be the solution? what to do?

Thanks in advance.
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Re: Terms of Service for the 333networks Master Server

Post by noccer »

Hey az.

The goal is not to destroy, we want to bring people together.
We ask the community for their input, and in some former threads people asked if it is possible to not list servers that fake players.

No good running community needs that, and if someone needs this he makes something drastically wrong.

However, we want a fair chance for everyone, that is why we need a ToS. To establish what we as the community want.
333networks can sort it out after what we agreed on
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>>You can't steal any ip (v4)adresses, there are exactly 4294967296 of them, and they will still exist when you wrote down all of them, or are stored in a (master)servers database ;)<<
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Re: Terms of Service for the 333networks Master Server

Post by Dr.Flay »

Removal of listing will have nothing to do with individuals or personal issues.
If the reason for blacklisting is not fit to send in an email to another service running a master, it will not be used.

It will only relate to the use of server hacks, patches, circumvention, or any tampering of the system that is not in the interests of the players/playability.
People that cheat are not tied to a server, and an individual admin can just ban them from the server.
Personal issues can be dealt with by individuals as they see fit on their own server.

My opinion, and I am not going to play nice;
Fake players are only in the interests of the laziest server admins with no imagination, to desperately attract players to their lame-assed server, because it is not good enough to attract players, or stand on it's own 2 feet without crutches, and they are running a mix of maps and mods that nobody else wants to play, or are already common on a better run server.

Run a good friendly server with good maps and mods, and people visit and importantly come back.
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