Best threads 2014

[UT99.org]

You weren't even in the conversation to start with noccer, we lost you couple posts back when you posted the picture. But thanks for the effort. Hope you didn't say that when your parents tried to give you books

[noccer]

Hope you didn't say that when your parents tried to give you books

Wow, this was funny. How long did you practice for this saying?

[UT99.org]

Wasn't even a joke, man. Posting pictures and TLDRs I'm starting to think you really are illiterate. Think about it

I'll just a make a couple more little observations before I fuck off ok. This from the "poop deck". here's the quote "The most recent version of the Master Server can perform a connection to a game-server and run a \info\ query to collect basic game-server information". I thought I'd enlighten you that UDP is a connectionless protocol.

Also, luckily 333networks are so open about all this, not even this guy can doubt it. Look at the link Dr.Flay posted. Clearly shows those servers have been down for over two days and are still in the list. Since when did a master server hold servers that long? And so what are you suggesting about the sheer number of UT servers in the 333networks database, where are they from? Did all those servers uplink to 333networks did they? Please, that's the only thing unproven. You say Epic hand over any 'new' uplinked servers. Doesn't quite match all the one way traffic. My guess each time the entire list is retrieved, the 333networks robot will send another query right away so there's my theory to why the queries never stop. Dark backs up this sentiment too because he doesn't see a problem mimicking a UT client to gather the server list. So really I think you might be more clueless, and putting your nose where it doesn't belong than what you originally intended with your "POOP Deck" thread. Let's hope for some intelligent answers. Fingers crossed

[Syntax-Error]

Hey Mr. billybill,

Thanks for the long reply, it felt heartwarming to see you took the time to respond.
I do appreciate it, thank you.

There is one thing I think I need to clear up.
I often mentioned the 333networks Master Server, but for me this is just a reference to the Master Server software from 333networks.com, which I downloaded and installed. So when I say the 333networks Master Server does not send "pings" or heartbeats, this is based on the behaviour of a cleanly installed Master Server from 333networks.com run by me. I know that the Master Server over at 333networks.com does query game-servers for basic game info and provide this as a service to the visitors of the website. Do I think this is a bad thing? Nope, I don't.

That's where your assumption is right "you seem to try and split the two", simple because the Master Server software from 333networks.com does not do this by itself. So I do see those 2 apart from eachother, looking at the behaviour of the Master Server (from 333networks.com) I am running.

You should keep in mind that there are multiple Master Servers running on the version of 333networks.com. Those Master Servers do NOT send pings or scans of any kind. That is what I am disputing, because you keep saying over and over again that it does, while in fact only the one over at 333networks.com is doing this as service for the website visitors. The Master Servers running the 333networks.com version itself don't do that.

The most cool part of this software, is that it is capable to serve as a Master Server for quite a large number of games and I've also seen them troubleshoot with players who requested support for their games and have the game successfully supported by the Master Server. So a large number of games can be supported by running just one Master Server, instead of running seperate Master Servers per game.
How cool is that!

You misinterpreted the "every X seconds", perhaps I should have explained this more clearly.
After a game-server announced itself to the Master Server, it starts to send a heartbeat "every X seconds" to let the Master Server know it is still up and running. This is NOT send by the Master Server.

I think it is cool that 333networks.com created a Master Server capable of handling multiple games and offer it for free to enable games to still be played online, even after GameSpy stopped their Master Server activities. Don't you?

"I did your little automated trick to fetch servers as well"
Show me where I said or did this, because I think your mixing up things...

"Why does the log show hundreds and thousands of individual queries on the query port" and "I just log the abuse coming from it you see"
This shounds like proof, but for some reason you often refer to this kind of proof, but never share parts of the log to show how it looks like. You also didn't go along with the offer Darkelarious made earlier about looking into that together. Why not?

"Trying to confuse people to think I meant range scanning or something is ridiculous because I never said or implied that"
You mentioned scanning as well as port scanning in the first post overhere: http://oceaniaut.com/forum/showthread.p ... 1#post1881

"can you explain where I said anything about a proxy in an ini. Very confused"
You can find it in your first post overhere: http://www.forum.unrealtournament.info/ ... f=33&t=162
As said in my post you were thinking out loud "I am learning on the idea of adding a proxy server to the ini, and then connecting through an evesdropping program for this", so no... I was not talking about gateway servers, you were thinking out loud.

"I'm forced to pirate it"
Are you? You could decide to look at alternative games... Or just take your losses

"template boy"
Thanks for my new nickname, but it doesn't fit me.

Again you make a lot of assumptions... *sigh*

"So you are one of those guys who picks an html template"
I created templates for the CMS's and webshops I have build from scratch.

"has an amateur site riddled with ads right?"
Sounds like an assumption to me. At the moment, I don't have a website, only some pages for test-purposes. In the time I had a website, there were no ads. Whenever I decide to start a website, it won't have ads. Simple because I don't need them and I find ads very annoying. I have multiple servers up and running, geographically spread. They all are capable to host a website, but I have no need for that at this moment.

"User friendly build interface click and point"
Indeed, the CMS's and webshops I have build in the past from scratch are database content driven and are indeed user friendly for the admins who uses it.

Based on these 3 remarks I can tell you really seem to know me very well.... NOT!

"I'll tell you right now our site's not a business"
I don't have a business either, but on the mainpage of your website it says "We probably are not far off offering a game server rentals", so to me it sounds like you're preparing to start a business.
I'm just a hobbiest fond of the game "Unreal" and trying to help to keep the community alive by hosting a Master Server (333networks.com software) and help out people where I can. (by offering help installing/configuring the Master Server, help and advice how configure internet related stuff (like DNS and Apache for example) and Linux related stuff etc... I even host websites for some people at no cost). Just for fun I even wrote a simple webbased uBrowser showing Unreal servers.

"and thought I wanted to work for you or something and it sparked something in you"
Assumption? Simply because I don't have any job openings, since I don't have a business. And... I can do most things myself, so why would I ask you?
I prefer to write my own gimmicks.

"As for blocking my IP, I already blocked yours" --> Cool! Which IP is it then, because I'm pretty sure you have no clue, since I don't run the master.333networks.com Master Server. (oh... Actually... This is funny) Oh... And why would I want to block your IP, because I don't?


"I still sense jealousy"
I assume it must be reflecting of you then?

"so you get angry"
I have no reason to be angry, or to become angry, so I guess your making an assumption.
You will be the last one on earth thinking to be able to get me angry


With kind regards,

Syntax-Error

[Hellkeeper]

Why isn't this thread locked yet? As if anything good was going to come out of it...

[papercoffee]

Why isn't this thread locked yet? As if anything good was going to come out of it...

Just because it's not against the rules to debate...
But I'm getting impatient ...instead of a good debate does it turn into a Kindergarten fight.

Now we know that you all don't really know each other... great basis for good discussion (this was sarcasm)
Way too much space for false assumptions in my opinion.

And noccer... don't be a troll.

[noccer]

Sorry, i am just tired of always the same stupid discussion!

[UT99.org]

ah no problem I'll share what I have on my end O.K

damn, looks like I messed up the date/timestamp on the logging

server 1:

Settings[0]=(IP="84.83.176.234",desc="333networks.com tracking service",Count=7732,lastmatch="2014-1200 019:0")

server 2:

Settings[0]=(IP="84.83.176.234",desc="333networks.com tracking service",Count=5537,lastmatch="2014-1200 011:0")

It should be noted this is all 100% one way traffic originating from that IP and onto the query ports. I can assure you I am not uplinking to anything but epic. I'll post the other two servers later

[Syntax-Error]

Well...

On my request the 333networks Master Server code has been checked once again.

If a game-server didn't send an update to the Master Server for atleast 1 hour, it's removed from the list either way.

Scripts which request game-info from the game-server will check for a maximum of aprox. 3 hours.
After that it assumes the game-server is offline and will stop queries to that game-server.

So, the claim that the 333networks Master Server tries to connect to a game-server which is no longer active for days should not be possible.
Therefor I kindly request to provide recent logs showing that the 333networks Master Server does try to connect and collect game-info from the game-server after this amount of time.
If you are able to provide those logs, we will look into this matter, as offered more than once before.

Your current log is quite small.

Could you please monitor your logs starting from today, and let me know new occurences?
If possible, provide more log than only 2 lines, just to be able to pinpoint things...

Until then, it is useless atleast in my opinion to announce statements it still does without providing proof to back up this accusation.
Agreed?


With kind regards,

Syntax-Error

[UT99.org]

no thanks. I don't want to use external firewall/logging. I don't feel it's my duty to.

'll fix the time/date stamp and add a 'first logged date/time' type variable though. Those servers only existed a couple weeks. those numbers will keep rising but it would be nice to get a better idea of the frequency of the scans

[Darkelarious]

So, the claim that the 333networks Master Server tries to connect to a game-server which is no longer active for days should not be possible.

Keep in mind that this only applies to *my* master server. Other master server owners may change this setting to their own preference as they see fit.

Settings[0]=(IP="84.83.176.234",desc="333networks.com tracking service",Count=7732,lastmatch="2014-1200 019:0")
Settings[0]=(IP="84.83.176.234",desc="333networks.com tracking service",Count=5537,lastmatch="2014-1200 011:0")
It should be noted this is all 100% one way traffic originating from that IP and onto the query ports. I can assure you I am not uplinking to anything but epic.

Be aware that the 333networks site still has the manual adding method: http://333networks.com/new

This allows everybody to add a missing server to the list. As long as the server is active, 333networks will be requesting the server info. A request which can be denied. I thought that my masterserver was firewalled out several centuries ago?

You also know already, but for clarity I will say this again; if you want your server to be removed from 333networks, the master and the site, it only takes you one email to get your server off the list. So far, you have not made this request yet. If it keeps getting added, I can also blacklist your server for you, which means that 333networks will not touch that address (effectively removing you from 333networks' existence).

Something else, at the start of this month, I needed to do some serious maintenance and to install new hardware. I had my services located at various alternate servers/locations. We also had to implement some countermeasures against several DDoS attacks this year.

IP="84.83.176.234"

The 333networks site and master were moved to "IP=54.172.138.161" about two weeks ago. Next week, the servers will (hopefully) move again to their permanent locations. Please do not rely on the IP address, but on the domain names:

- 333networks.com for the main site
- master.333networks.com for the master server

In the next few days I hope to write more for http://wiki.333networks.com about how my master server works; I have not gotten to it because I have to answer redundant and repetitive forum posts first. If more people want to contribute to our wiki, please contact noccer or SyntaxError to get access.

I am willing to answer serious questions and concerns, but I am not willing to repeat myself.
Have a good one.

[UT99.org]

hah I'll make it resolve the address maybe. I don't think you are understanding that it's not a firewall block, it's a filtered udp query response. Filtered, logged, blocked ie no response sent. I find it laughable that when the heat gets too hot you claim the servers were manually entered. I put them on gametracker manually, these servers been around not very long for them to have been manually added by someone. All servers, every one gets those queries. Please don't insult people's intelligence. I think it might be time to have Epic start blocking any automatic requests. Whether you use a random delay timer it doesn't matter, back and forwards blocked and filtered ip after ip. Looks like you want a war? To be honest I'm surprised it's not again EULA or something to even carry out those queries. Shall we release the source together and forward it to gametracker and other services? Come on buddy, play fair

[Darkelarious]

I find it laughable that when the heat gets too hot you claim the servers were manually entered.

Yes... the heat.. I can't stand it.

I am glad that you consider resolving the domain name, even though the suggestion came from me. To me, it confirms that you're not a straight-forward troll that just wants to instigate a fight, but that you are trying to make an honest point.

I also hadn't realized what you meant with a filtered UDP query response. I understood that you were just firewalling all in/outbound traffic to previously established IP. That also explains why the 333networks master/site continue querying you, as all these services are located on another IP.

Back to manually entering. I did not claim they were entered manually, I merely stated that this is a possibility. From your response, I can guess that you don't think that this is the case. Let's stick with both scenarios here:

Manually entered
- somebody enters your server ip/port on the site
- masterserver queries your server every hour to check whether it's online
- 333networks site queries your server every 2-3 minutes for live statistics (identical to gametracker)

Automatically entered
- your server uplinks to one of the established masterservers
- 333nw master server receives this list (see a few posts back: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=6073#p70320 )
- masterserver queries your server every hour to check whether it's online
- 333networks site queries your server every 2-3 minutes for live statistics (identical to gametracker)

Both scenarios end with...
- 333networks site stops querying after the server is offline for more than 1 hour
- masterserver stops querying after the server is offline for more than 3 hours

If during above times, a lifeline of your server is detected ( see picture in viewtopic.php?f=12&t=6073#p70320 ) the masterserver and site put you back in the list, setting the "last seen" to the timestamp of that lifeline.

All of the above is complicit with what you state; you send uplinks to Epic, 333nw receives these uplinks via Epic, and keeps you on the list of active servers. Thus it tries to query you. As long as you keep uplinking to any masterserver, you effectively state: "I want to be found", exactly what 333networks does: find you.

Now, obviously you consider this a problem, otherwise you wouldn't have spawned several (the same) threads on various forums. I also provided you the solution: you don't want to be queried, request deletion.

You also know already, but for clarity I will say this again; if you want your server to be removed from 333networks, the master and the site, it only takes you one email to get your server off the list. So far, you have not made this request yet. If it keeps getting added, I can also blacklist your server for you, which means that 333networks will not touch that address (effectively removing you from 333networks' existence).

And finally,

these servers been around not very long for them to have been manually added by someone. All servers, every one gets those queries.

From my last HTTP access log before we started our maintenance; between 23 and 30 November 2014, the "add a new server" page has been accessed 228 times. If the masterserver did not get your server address from the Epic master server, there is still a pretty big chance that your server was added manually.

Edit: also added the response to your edit;

I think it might be time to have Epic start blocking any automatic requests. Whether you use a random delay timer it doesn't matter, back and forwards blocked and filtered ip after ip.

Gametracker, GameRanger and before that telefragged/gamespy were/used all automatic requests. Even your precious Ubrowser makes automated requests. Online multiplayer games are all about communication with each other, not about blocking each other.

Shall we release the source together and forward it to gametracker and other services?

The source code is ALREADY released (sorry, you have no role in that, as you did not contribute anything). I already discussed an exchange of information/server lists with GameRanger. I hope you are not offended that I already had this discussion months ago and without your permission.

Come on buddy, play fair

I have been as transparent to the best of my abilities. The code is open-source. I tried to answer every relevant question that came by. Where I didn't answer a question, others tried to with the best of their abilities. I tried playing ball with you. I tried listening to you and incorporate your feedback. All you did is whine instead. I would gladly explain you every step again and again, but I don't want to insult people's intelligence.

[UT99.org]

It wasn't an edit, I accidentally hit backspace and the browser went back. Upon reading my post the middle was all missing. But anyway, I don't believe gametracker or any of those services used automatic master list querying. UBrowser is not exactly automated because it's players doing it. The source code is not really something like that, I could make the same exact source code on my end having not looked over yours and it would have the same functionality. So was it added manually or not? Maybe your site should list it under the server itself if it was added manually. Somehow I think you're stretching the truth here when I set up so many server and so regularly and they all end up in your database. I think I'll add some more sections to the filter, like the time and date the server was put online. So we can see how long it takes for it to be "manually added" to 333networks. I'll add some more stuff to try and show the frequency of the scans too

"Now, obviously you consider this a problem, otherwise you wouldn't have spawned several (the same) threads on various forums. I also provided you the solution: you don't want to be queried, request deletion.". Actually, it was one of your guys who started this again. Can I please request that you jump off a bridge

[Pileyrei]

Why cant we just all be friends?