Which anti-cheat is up to date ?

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FXANBSS
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Re: Which anti-cheat is up to date ?

Post by FXANBSS » Thu Mar 03, 2016 12:03 am

The anti-cheat can detect recent self-made hacks?

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sektor2111
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Re: Which anti-cheat is up to date ?

Post by sektor2111 » Thu Mar 03, 2016 7:28 am

FXANBSS wrote:The anti-cheat can detect recent self-made hacks?
You do look like you wanna dig your own grave, buddy. You don't seems to be smart enough if you post this in public :loool: . Anti-cheats won't love files changed anyway.

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Re: Which anti-cheat is up to date ?

Post by TruthAlwaysEmerges » Mon Mar 07, 2016 4:25 pm

sektor2111 wrote:...
Topic Anti-Cheat
May I tell you the truth ? Share with other admins some occurrences found. When evidences are clear just firewall all turd's zone at least for 6 months until idiot will learn to play as a normal human being based on normal human reflexes and sensors not boosted as a retarded A.I. creature which I'm using as opponents, LOL, pushed in combat to not sleep.
Suggestions ?
Yes ? You can setup a web page or a forum with having posted public cheaters IPs. Then we can build properly some list, we add that one in main firewall - good night in advance. Even in EULA cheating is forbidden, so you don't have to feel sorry about cheaters.
And the magic: If this list is added in firewall at Master-Server for sure they won't see any server for playing ON-LINE so they can enjoy their crap OFF-LINE without disturbing players.
That's just too optimistic, and actually naive. Situation is that on most of UT99 servers no active admin. And if there is, it may be even worse - because many admins cheat, don't care at all about fairplay and similar. I was banned on one server when complained that some player cheats - was obvious aimbot, but it appeared that he was admin, then was banned with comment that I cheated :mrgreen:

Some more interesting stuff: lot of players using some type of speed hack, dodgebot. I tried one speed hack, what is available online for free - it makes everything running faster on client, so player computer. But most of servers has some partial counter measure (newer ACEs, I guess) - it will stop and put back too fast running player after 1-2 secs. all time. In jumps too. But teleport, redeemers fly much faster - that confirmed my observation that some players have advantage with faster redeemers - on some maps it is victory.
Things are that online and I guess local gaming cheat is good business. There are specialized firms, persons who selling cheats. You will not find online anything usable for free. There is dodgebot with major flaw - no dodging ahead. Not detected on any server, btw. Some do not sell cheat , but hire for time period - that's probably best way - people will not pay for detectable cheat, and firm will update it by need - otherwise losing money.
Maybe with today's fast computers server could keep everything under control - so could test not only running real speed, but dodges, redeemer and other weapon speed, but I doubt that we will see such major updates for UT99 . People knowing how to program UT is too busy in selling cheats :twisted:

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Re: Which anti-cheat is up to date ?

Post by sektor2111 » Mon Mar 07, 2016 10:47 pm

Man, in my dumb researches I could see... evidences stored, databases, different things. These sales can be morphed into useless business if HEADS do take measures.
Let me see. I'm collecting evidences in a database with IP-s and areas. I put them in firewalls - MasterServer, Servers, even DNS routes. Then tell me if those "sudden awesome players" can join without manually seeking servers as long as their list will be empty in browsers, LOL. You know, I think I'm not the only one who wants this way...
This shared system could be implemented even at Server-Level by companies renting UT Servers. Taking such global measures will surely clean the mess from On-Line gaming, even extended in other games too... Yes, always sadistic measures are efficient, if they don't listen a nice advice on a cute voice, they will learn the hard way. Then... if a server match cheater address, both or them can be slapped down in STEALTH mode. Hey, admin, enjoy your mess with yourself, you are now invisible as your sh!t server. Heh...
They can be un-banned after begging mercy and/or paying a penalty - new money source for hosting :lol: . Ho, ho, you don't want me in charge for these things... I'm too small but I know what have to do do with desired power and knowledge...

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Re: Which anti-cheat is up to date ?

Post by max*** » Tue Mar 08, 2016 12:32 pm

Whining =low skill level
post demo and we will judge.

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Re: Which anti-cheat is up to date ?

Post by sektor2111 » Tue Mar 08, 2016 4:23 pm

Demo is recommended for problems "unknown" occurrences which might look as false positives. When ACE claims in LOGs: Zellius, Hellios, Elf, etc., and the rest of known things, they doesn't need any demo or other research, just adding to lists.

Aside, I don't get how a player might have Engine screwed ? What for such file as Engine.dll is suddenly hacked in player ? Do speak.
Also It's pathetic to see old cheats still trying and retrying each month/year to join in ACE servers (even after 2011) - those guys are mentally retarded so nobody needs them anyway. Old cheats are always caught by ACE... because are... OLD... outdated, expired, exhausted, rammed... The only good purpose for using them is development, cheating with them is pointless.

No worries, IP posted by Loathsome was crawling my machine at a moment being blocked at gates (UT did not see it). Whoever is testing something looks like UT works without it, so it will stay away - just example.

Also you might be good surprised to see SKILL posted on YouTube, real professionals taking demos proving how to play.
I don't have their Level but it's frustrating to see a cheater doing a mess - it's visible who's cheater, I know some tricks to find them (that's my personal feature).

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Re: Which anti-cheat is up to date ?

Post by Barbie » Tue Mar 08, 2016 5:36 pm

TruthAlwaysEmerges wrote:I tried one speed hack, what is available online for free - it makes everything running faster on client
Until now I have thought that such things like player or rocket movements (Role < ROLE_AutonomousProxy) are controlled by server. :what:
"Multiple exclamation marks," he went on, shaking his head, "are a sure sign of a diseased mind." --Terry Pratchett

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Re: Which anti-cheat is up to date ?

Post by UT Sniper (SJA94) » Tue Mar 08, 2016 7:08 pm

Barbie wrote:
TruthAlwaysEmerges wrote:I tried one speed hack, what is available online for free - it makes everything running faster on client
Until now I have thought that such things like player or rocket movements (Role < ROLE_AutonomousProxy) are controlled by server. :what:
There is a pattern with people like this, they could be talking to someone who knows the engine inside out, and still tell them they are wrong about something, it's better to just ignore them.

There is a guy that plays on the |uk| servers, he accuses everyone better than him a cheater, the stuff he says... he spams the flak cannon because he doesn't want to play weapons, he says he does this because it makes the servers fps lower, he says bots are making the server lag, even though there isn't anyone cheating in the server, he clams to had owned a game hosting company, and this is why he is always right.


Talking of speedhacks, if you take off your frame limiter off offline this happens, (anything over 200fps the game runs faster):
Higor wrote:

Code: Select all

// Clamp time between 200 fps and 2.5 fps.
	DeltaSeconds = Clamp(DeltaSeconds,0.005f,0.40f);
Clamped internally on level tick, regardless of how the game engine waits for next frame.
So if you force anything above 200, the game will run faster because DeltaSeconds cannot go below 0.005

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Re: Which anti-cheat is up to date ?

Post by TruthAlwaysEmerges » Wed Mar 09, 2016 11:13 am

I can post some recorded demos, of course. But there will be lot of errors - if you follow some player in 3rdpersonview will see that he often just disappear in recorded demo. Probably because my shit connection.
Later can catch him, with cycling thru players.
Then, I'm not sure that demo even can record properly some extra fast dodges - because it is not regular UT movement. But still, cheat should be visible.
Barbie wrote:
TruthAlwaysEmerges wrote:I tried one speed hack, what is available online for free - it makes everything running faster on client
Until now I have thought that such things like player or rocket movements (Role < ROLE_AutonomousProxy) are controlled by server. :what:
Well, that was what I thought too, but it is not case on Funnel.de and some others I tried. That's why is good that people do self some tests.
max*** wrote:Whining =low skill level
post demo and we will judge.
You talk as typical cheater. I did not came here after 3 weeks of playing, but after 3 years. I mean last 3 years online, but I played UT since it's demo arrived (1999). I will post demo, and I expect that you will say that no cheat. Because that's is what goes online - some people just refuses to see cheat - or to admit that it is there. So, please, spare us from your judgement. Your first sentence was enough.
I'm not type who must win at all cost. And I know that I can not win in many cases - because connection, because not being good on certain maps. Much more important is to improve playing skills and tactics. I often vote on maps where I'm not good, just to practice and improve - that makes me feeling better than some victory. Really never won more than 4 matches in row online - just left after it, because that's just gets boring, and better to leave others to have chance.

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Re: Which anti-cheat is up to date ?

Post by max*** » Wed Mar 09, 2016 11:48 am

I play allmost every day and i dont see cheaters or dodgebots .every day ppl call me cheater but just on low skilled servers .is that mean that i am cheater?
Go on some unrealkillers server (insta) and tell me if someone cheat there.
U can play 17 years ut on some server with noobs but u will not learn nothing or just u will learn maps .find some servers with beter skill players and u will see how beter u will be i a short time.
sry for bad english

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Re: Which anti-cheat is up to date ?

Post by aZ.Boy » Wed Mar 09, 2016 4:24 pm

UT Sniper (SJA94) wrote: There is a pattern with people like this, they could be talking to someone who knows the engine inside out, and still tell them they are wrong about something, it's better to just ignore them.

There is a guy that plays on the |uk| servers, he accuses everyone better than him a cheater, the stuff he says... he spams the flak cannon because he doesn't want to play weapons, he says he does this because it makes the servers fps lower, he says bots are making the server lag, even though there isn't anyone cheating in the server, he clams to had owned a game hosting company, and this is why he is always right.
I think they are just "frog in the well" I never bother explaining to them when I'm playing cause they won't try to listen or understand you at this point they just spam the chat with "cheater" while they don't even try to spec you... just start calling you out for cheats and claim to be anti cheat experts when almost everything they say is wrong.

In my opinion it's not that easy to detect cheaters manually without anticheats (referring to normal admins without good knowledge) unless the cheater is really dumb enough and does something stupid which exposes himself. as far as I remember some months ago Anth mentioned he was working in something for ut99, any news from him yet?

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Re: Which anti-cheat is up to date ?

Post by Wises » Thu Mar 10, 2016 9:50 am

max*** wrote:I play allmost every day and i dont see cheaters or dodgebots .every day ppl call me cheater but just on low skilled servers .is that mean that i am cheater?
Go on some unrealkillers server (insta) and tell me if someone cheat there.
U can play 17 years ut on some server with noobs but u will not learn nothing or just u will learn maps .find some servers with beter skill players and u will see how beter u will be i a short time.
sry for bad english
What needs to happen is quite basic , all players (some 200-300) need to be graded on a 'Universal Database' , from here they could be split off into 'Groups' or 'Levels' from Beginners ~through-to~ Elite say 3-levels to keep it simple.

Server Admins could setup 3 server's or 1 server set at a certain skillevel & depending on the server requirements only players of a certain 'Rank' can play
forcing other levels into spec (optional) or something.. *thinks*;

1.Beginner
2.Medium
3.Advanced

Players would accumulate 'skill points' using ACE (for identification) and perhaps several skillsets... as detected by 'Server-Side-Only' mod.
players could then be 'Ranked' and upon connecting to any of the server's would be redirected to the appropriate server for the level of that player.

perhaps something like this could help?

on top of this there could be a Training Server , where players could up-skill and Elite players can spend time teaching curious players how to be better at the game. This in turn may attract more players to the game and keep it alive.

When working on SmartDM with Proasm I was trying to implement soemthing like this where players had a ranking system but it never really went anywhere.

ahh well ... just a thought.
:sleep:

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Re: Which anti-cheat is up to date ?

Post by TruthAlwaysEmerges » Thu Mar 10, 2016 1:04 pm

I was on similar idea - to make diverse servers for diverse skilled players. What is partially already done - at least in server name :D But that really has not much with cheat problem.
And without some really good cheat detection whole idea has no sense - because cheaters like to be considered good players, and some of them indeed have good skills in some areas, but it will not help at all bad feeling and most of matches will be just shit again.
I know one guy who claims that had game company - what must mean that he is then good player - what a logic ! :mrgreen:

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Re: Which anti-cheat is up to date ?

Post by UT Sniper (SJA94) » Thu Mar 10, 2016 6:53 pm

Wises wrote:
max*** wrote:I play allmost every day and i dont see cheaters or dodgebots .every day ppl call me cheater but just on low skilled servers .is that mean that i am cheater?
Go on some unrealkillers server (insta) and tell me if someone cheat there.
U can play 17 years ut on some server with noobs but u will not learn nothing or just u will learn maps .find some servers with beter skill players and u will see how beter u will be i a short time.
sry for bad english
What needs to happen is quite basic , all players (some 200-300) need to be graded on a 'Universal Database' , from here they could be split off into 'Groups' or 'Levels' from Beginners ~through-to~ Elite say 3-levels to keep it simple.

Server Admins could setup 3 server's or 1 server set at a certain skillevel & depending on the server requirements only players of a certain 'Rank' can play
forcing other levels into spec (optional) or something.. *thinks*;

1.Beginner
2.Medium
3.Advanced

Players would accumulate 'skill points' using ACE (for identification) and perhaps several skillsets... as detected by 'Server-Side-Only' mod.
players could then be 'Ranked' and upon connecting to any of the server's would be redirected to the appropriate server for the level of that player.

perhaps something like this could help?

on top of this there could be a Training Server , where players could up-skill and Elite players can spend time teaching curious players how to be better at the game. This in turn may attract more players to the game and keep it alive.

When working on SmartDM with Proasm I was trying to implement soemthing like this where players had a ranking system but it never really went anywhere.

ahh well ... just a thought.
:sleep:
That would just kill ut, there is not enough players to do that anymore. Players will not improve much if they are all at the same skill level, if a player is not spamming hacker and cheater, i normally help them if they ask a question. Its nice seeing a player improve when youve been helping them with their graphic, mouse settings, ect.

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Re: Which anti-cheat is up to date ?

Post by Wises » Thu Mar 10, 2016 8:06 pm

TruthAlwaysEmerges wrote:I was on similar idea - to make diverse servers for diverse skilled players. What is partially already done - at least in server name :D But that really has not much with cheat problem.
And without some really good cheat detection whole idea has no sense - because cheaters like to be considered good players, and some of them indeed have good skills in some areas, but it will not help at all bad feeling and most of matches will be just shit again.
^ you could have a GODMODE server which is effectively just AimBots :idea:
I know one guy who claims that had game company - what must mean that he is then good player - what a logic ! :mrgreen:
^ Sounds like BillyBob_G , also infamous for aliasing as other players/admins and causing UNTOLD Players & Admins to Quit/Leave UT ~ Nasty P.O.S that one!. I PERSONALLY was going to visit him in Auckland (some 700km away) to deliver a computer on his head.. he was saved by my mrs lucky lad. :mad2:
That would just kill ut, there is not enough players to do that anymore. Players will not improve much if they are all at the same skill level, if a player is not spamming hacker and cheater, i normally help them if they ask a question. Its nice seeing a player improve when youve been helping them with their graphic, mouse settings, ect.
^ there is always going to be differences in oppinion however anything is possible if one is willing to open their mind and look for a solution, having done so following through with an action , then we would know if it works or not.

psychologically one must think , hmm... what causes people to cheat in the first place? .. IAM sure we could come up with reasons for this behaviour and then set forth to rectify these issues , essentually getting to the core of 'CHEATING' rather then being biased / one sided , ANTICHEAT experts and such.

now 1 reason I personally can think of why people cheat is because everytime they came online to play , they were TARGETED by Good players and given their asses hand to them on a plate.

causing all kinds of feelings and emotions , leading to the desire to get even and retaliating.. this is probably the mindset of a large percentage of PEOPLE who use Cheats and could be resolved by a Ranking system of sorts.

look at quake live : https://www.quakelive.com/ ,

for example.. still same old school game and pumping ... (personally cant stand quake lol)

and they have such a leveling/ranking system is place..

it works. :thuup:

Also ACE was compromised years ago by an D2 member.. who might I add , is a pretty damn gpood player without it.. Hyp :loool: ;)
he also bypassed HWID system... way back then... bloody mischief lmao.

Kelly / GoPo has a server-side Hueristics? system which may/not work.. and Higor has the Ability to make something ... but these things take time and patience... none of which I personally have these days.

Good Luck.