Better Bots in MonsterHunt or RocketX Mods

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Peamole
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Better Bots in MonsterHunt or RocketX Mods

Post by Peamole » Fri Jul 16, 2021 3:56 pm

Did anyone ever try to take it slow through an offline or online MH or MA map with a bot tagging along, covering you? I like to do this with only 1 life, like a survival adventure. Did anyone ever try to stand back to let the bot take some pot shots at some charging monsters and get a few frags of their own? How about picking a bot up for a ride in the back of a RocketX ship? What about just flying that RocketX jet around in circles or figure eights and let the bot open fire out the back end?
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Most of the time, they don't do a thing. They completely ignore the monsters, opponents, incoming seeking projectiles around them—until it's too late and they've been mauled or blasted away.
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...I'm talking about "Inhuman" or "Godlike" bots; not the "Novice" ones! :P
Isn't it just plain goofy when you see like 20 Pupae/Mantas/Flies/whatever charging towards a Bot and the Bot just stands there and acts like nothing is wrong, sometimes while facing the damn things? They have to bite it to get its attention!

Me: "YOOHOO, bot, those things aren't closing in for a snuggle!"
Bot: Dies.
Me: "DOH! You dufus! AAAAARGH!"
RageMemeFace.png
Me: Smashes keyboard against monitor and proceeds to throw computer out of window.

There's a map called MH-()MG-ValleyOfHellFinal or something like that where many lava-textured brutes spawn in and instantly turn around and shoot super-fast FlakShells at you without any provocation, even from very far away. That is some frightening awareness! :o
I was thinking of changing Botpack and making the bots react that well in Godlike mode but I have almost no knowledge on C++ or UScrypt programming at all. Can anyone do anything about this pervasive problem? Does Botpack even need to be changed?

Sorry if this was long like TL;DR. I just had to take a break and get this out there to y'all.
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sektor2111
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Re: Better Bots in MonsterHunt or RocketX Mods

Post by sektor2111 » Fri Jul 16, 2021 6:03 pm

Answer is... more answers...
#1 Custom Bots won't need to modify stock file BotPack at all - they are loaded as defaults are loaded if are defined in User.ini;
#2 Custom MonsterHunt with codes completed and changed and not plain MonsterHunt based on brute forcing Bot to nowhere and running in place;
#3 Maps with Bot Support not just UNR files - discussion here has... pages and ages at how many options are doable.
#4 Did I missed anything else ?


RX Mods:
They are trying to deploy a sort of chain for flight but are still far from being accurate and might crash at iterations boundary.
One version (a HOF RX9_02 or like that) has "Native Flight" support if map has AIR PATHS - only U227 and XC_Engine can do such paths.
The rest is another deal as long as physics of Pawn flying with Jet is not compatible with Bot and flying in any way but here are doable several tricks as long as the start of such mod was ignited. Amazingly I did not see enthusiasts mappers for doing native flight maps and neither coders engaged to develop that navigation "skeleton" - the start of native flight and not those myths from majority of SLV maps which don't even have logic ground paths needed in SLV types.
For normal stock UT it might be advisable another type of controller based on Swim Paths which are doable using only Editor 436 and a closer pawn having physics required for flying and pointing "MoveTarget" variable from Bot - injecting movement data VIA Bot controller from said SLV mod. I'm not sure if coders are understanding first prototype of this chapter and are willing to participate, so far it's all under a deep silence...

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Re: Better Bots in MonsterHunt or RocketX Mods

Post by Old UT Veteran » Fri Jul 16, 2021 7:54 pm

sektor2111 wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 6:03 pm
One version (a HOF RX9_02 or like that) has "Native Flight" support if map has AIR PATHS - only U227 and XC_Engine can do such paths.
I'd like to see this in action tbh, even if its just basic.

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Re: Better Bots in MonsterHunt or RocketX Mods

Post by EvilGrins » Fri Jul 16, 2021 11:13 pm

Peamole wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 3:56 pm
Did anyone ever try to take it slow through an offline or online MH or MA map with a bot tagging along, covering you? I like to do this with only 1 life, like a survival adventure. Did anyone ever try to stand back to let the bot take some pot shots at some charging monsters and get a few frags of their own?
Frequently, and like any other gametype the bots are limited by what they can do and where they will go by how good the bot-pathing is. Well pathed maps, they can beat the map as well as any player, but not all mappers care all that much for bots.
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For time estimates, I sometimes let a team of 8 bots take on a well pathed MH map to see how long it takes them to beat it.
Peamole wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 3:56 pm
How about picking a bot up for a ride in the back of a RocketX ship? What about just flying that RocketX jet around in circles or figure eights and let the bot open fire out the back end?
I find, for some weird reason, bots do better with SLV than RX, though with enough open space either works out well.
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Peamole wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 3:56 pm
Isn't it just plain goofy when you see like 20 Pupae/Mantas/Flies/whatever charging towards a Bot and the Bot just stands there and acts like nothing is wrong, sometimes while facing the damn things? They have to bite it to get its attention!
I don't often see that kinda thing, and if I do I look into getting the map fixed. There's any number of people that can fix the pathing so that's not a problem, although what you're describing seems weird. Even on a map with bad pathing, bots respond to attacks. If they're not, there may be something in your settings that's causing them to ignore the monsters.
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Re: Better Bots in MonsterHunt or RocketX Mods

Post by sektor2111 » Sat Jul 17, 2021 7:36 am

You need to understand how do Bot works Vs MonsterHunt and Like I said - THESE ARE NOT happening to another Bot and another MonsterHunt, discussion forward about "Defaults" it's irrelevant, codes are not changing themselves over time.

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Old UT Veteran wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 7:54 pm
sektor2111 wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 6:03 pm
One version (a HOF RX9_02 or like that) has "Native Flight" support if map has AIR PATHS - only U227 and XC_Engine can do such paths.
I'd like to see this in action tbh, even if its just basic.
I'll look through files (RX has more dependencies - I think even useless ones) and of course, there are 4-5 maps with air paths where I witnessed captures using RX Jet. They are clumsy as long as it might be still needed more work at that "BrainSharing" solution but... it's a start. I don't think a PM attachment can hold everything, perhaps I'll send you a link which I have to prepare on my GoogleDrive - that is fast and it allows more data.

Edit:
Data is ready, linked in PM.

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Re: Better Bots in MonsterHunt or RocketX Mods

Post by Peamole » Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:46 pm

EvilGrins wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 11:13 pm
Peamole wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 3:56 pm
Isn't it just plain goofy when you see like 20 Pupae/Mantas/Flies/whatever charging towards a Bot and the Bot just stands there and acts like nothing is wrong, sometimes while facing the damn things? They have to bite it to get its attention!
I don't often see that kinda thing, and if I do I look into getting the map fixed. There's any number of people that can fix the pathing so that's not a problem, although what you're describing seems weird. Even on a map with bad pathing, bots respond to attacks. If they're not, there may be something in your settings that's causing them to ignore the monsters.
I see this happening in every MH map, well-pathed or not. The bot is in Godlike; Skill Level, Alertness, Accuracy are all the way up; the bot is Cautious. I have original UT99 436 settings. Do I have to set bot AI or Combat settings, like HearingThreshold, in-game? PeripheralVision is 0.000000; is that the issue? Did bots get better with version updates?
Maybe I'm just expecting too much of these bots. They're not smart like people—they ignore the charging, hissing Pupae behind them and they are only as cunning or vigilant as they're programmed. It does seem to me like the monsters or bots notice me a lot more easily than the bots notice the monsters. :confused2:

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Re: Better Bots in MonsterHunt or RocketX Mods

Post by OjitroC » Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:01 pm

Peamole wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:46 pm
Do I have to set bot AI or Combat settings, like HearingThreshold, in-game? PeripheralVision is 0.000000; is that the issue? Did bots get better with version updates?
No, you don't - basically don't mess with the default bot settings in Pawn>Bot>HumanBotPlus. Have you altered anything in Botpack.u?

As EG has said, the bots should work fine in MH maps if they are pathed - they will attack monsters and can finish maps unaided (in general anyway).

What MH version are you using? Have you altered anything in that?

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Re: Better Bots in MonsterHunt or RocketX Mods

Post by Peamole » Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:27 pm

OjitroC wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:01 pm
No, you don't - basically don't mess with the default bot settings in Pawn>Bot>HumanBotPlus. Have you altered anything in Botpack.u?

As EG has said, the bots should work fine in MH maps if they are pathed - they will attack monsters and can finish maps unaided (in general anyway).

What MH version are you using? Have you altered anything in that?
Lol No I didn't alter anything. I have MonsterHunt v503 from August 5, 2002. The bots have a problem with vigilance; they pay attention and attack only after they have been hit first, then they shoot just a few monsters and go back to ignoring things around them again. Try having just 1 bot cover you in slomo 0.5, don't fire your gun unless a monster is charging at you, stand back and watch the bot. MH-(UTW)Opel_Manta.unr is a good example. They will shoot the first Tentacle right after spawning but ignore most Mantas or BMW Driver Zombies around them. :lol2:

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Re: Better Bots in MonsterHunt or RocketX Mods

Post by OjitroC » Mon Jul 19, 2021 11:34 pm

Peamole wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:27 pm
MH-(UTW)Opel_Manta.unr is a good example. They will shoot the first Tentacle right after spawning but ignore most Mantas or BMW Driver Zombies around them. :lol2:
Sorry but that map doesn't inspire a lot of confidence as the download zip has about 25 files of which, according to Shrimp's site, only 3 are actually required by the map. Plus the set-up is wrong - it uses ThingFactories to spawn scriptedpawns rather than creature factories (so there's a lot of spam in the log).

Anyway that's not important for the purposes of playing the map. I played it with one bot - I just play on normal speed. My bot certainly attacked the Mantas as well as the redeemer-firing Tentacle near the playerstarts and she followed me around the part of the map that I visited.

So I really don't know what causes your bot to not do much. Are you using any mutators?

Tried it on slomo 0.5 - a bit difficult to tell what the bot was doing as she kept getting blown up by the Tentacle - but yes she did attack the Mantas and did follow me.

What result do you get if you set it at slomo 1?

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Re: Better Bots in MonsterHunt or RocketX Mods

Post by Peamole » Tue Jul 20, 2021 5:01 pm

OjitroC wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 11:34 pm
Tried it on slomo 0.5 - a bit difficult to tell what the bot was doing as she kept getting blown up by the Tentacle - but yes she did attack the Mantas and did follow me.

What result do you get if you set it at slomo 1?
I got the same result as before, with slomo 1. I'd use slomo 0.4 but it really doesn't It's best to kill the tentacles first to get it out of the way, as its immense firepower ruins this observation experiment. Try summoning something powerful like a Pack3.AdminQuad or sin2ut.realsinsniper to get rid of it fast. Then go to the left or right tunnel and stand still on the outer edge. Don't shoot unless the monsters are coming your way. When I do this, I see that the bot covering me is totally uninterested in looking out for or fighting the monsters until she gets mauled by one, most of the time.

Sorry, had I looked at the *.zip file recently, I wouldn't've recommended this map. The extra files, like MonsterHunt.u are probably for n00bs; I don't think they contain viruses though.
This map has a MyLevel.utx in the zip file. :facepalm: :loool: Don't install that!

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Re: Better Bots in MonsterHunt or RocketX Mods

Post by OjitroC » Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:27 am

Peamole wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 5:01 pm
... go to the left or right tunnel and stand still on the outer edge. Don't shoot unless the monsters are coming your way. When I do this, I see that the bot covering me is totally uninterested in looking out for or fighting the monsters until she gets mauled by one, most of the time.
Removed the tentacle's projectile - so no mayhem at the start. My bot, Olga, certainly attacked the mantas, taking out those close and those at some distance away; she also attacked the tentacle when there were no mantas around and she followed me around, sticking quite close. Olga is one of sektor's MBot and they do follow the Player more - not all the bots I tried before were MBots and they showed much the same behaviour as Olga.

In Monster Hunt, I've got the AI Hunter Skill set to Inhuman - this is where you are setting the Skill level at Godlike?

I really don't know what to say or suggest as the bots should perform better than the behaviour that you get.

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Re: Better Bots in MonsterHunt or RocketX Mods

Post by sektor2111 » Fri Jul 23, 2021 2:08 pm

In MH maps you can add customized Nodes that can be capable to develop some war using Navigation assets if MonsterHunt with that "CanSee" function fails to to do what it needs to do, either way one actor A.I. assistant can do more noise if weather is too quiet...