stop image dropping

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(G)ott
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stop image dropping

Post by (G)ott » Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:50 pm

Hi,

does someone know how to stop image dropping or is there already a mod created to fix this?

EDIT: i forgot to say, that i mean for UT99.

greetz (G)ott

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Re: stop image dropping

Post by Hook » Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:26 pm

One way is to lower your Minimum Frames Per Second (fps) threshold.
In your UT Preferences.
What this does is to lower the threshold at which UT starts to drop images during game-play, if it has to, to hold that fps.

OR - If there is a mod to do this - someone else know?
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Re: stop image dropping

Post by (G)ott » Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:31 pm

I dont know if you mean the same..
I mean for examble, if you crouch on a edge at the top of a building, then it can happen, that your skin is fall down and any player will see you at the bottom, but your in real all the time at the top. The same is with teleporters, you crouch in a start-tele point and the target teleporter is in the air then you will not fall down, only your "image" at the bottom will all see, except you.

I think its a problem to send an player the real location of a other player.


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Re: stop image dropping

Post by Hook » Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:17 pm

OK - I think I know what you are talking about.
There were posts about this and maybe a fix too.
It was that teleport or mover (lift) problem where you saw a false image of a player when they crouched.
Does anybody have the link to that post? (or the fix if any?)

EDIT: See Jack's (aka gopostal) post below... :tu:
Last edited by Hook on Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: stop image dropping

Post by papercoffee » Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:27 am

Wah!? ...ok I thought this was a bug in one of my maps (DM-Gangwar-Towers) ...other player could see me down on the bottom but if they aim and lock a rocket the projectile was flying straight up to my real position ...the other weapons doesn't work.

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Re: stop image dropping

Post by JackGriffin » Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:04 pm

From the readme:
TheDanes No Teleport Image Drop mutator.

By TheDane, thedane_ut@hotmail.com , http://www.thedanesjoint.com

What is this?:

This mutator fixes the bug in the engine that is causing players to still hang in the teleport if they crouch into it, if the teleport is placed up high above the ground the players image will drop to the floor while the player actualy is still inside the teleporter up above. When other players see the player on the ground their bullets will just pass right through the image without causing any damage to the player. You can still shoot the player if you know where the teleport is or if it's visible, but you wont see the player inside the teleport, but your shots will cause damage to the player if you hit him/her.
DanesNoTeleportDrop.zip
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Re: stop image dropping

Post by (G)ott » Mon Jun 20, 2011 6:25 pm

JackGriffin wrote:From the readme:
TheDanes No Teleport Image Drop mutator.

By TheDane, thedane_ut@hotmail.com , http://www.thedanesjoint.com

What is this?:

This mutator fixes the bug in the engine that is causing players to still hang in the teleport if they crouch into it, if the teleport is placed up high above the ground the players image will drop to the floor while the player actualy is still inside the teleporter up above. When other players see the player on the ground their bullets will just pass right through the image without causing any damage to the player. You can still shoot the player if you know where the teleport is or if it's visible, but you wont see the player inside the teleport, but your shots will cause damage to the player if you hit him/her.
DanesNoTeleportDrop.zip

Thanks, but this is the same like TeleporterFix103 by Defrost.
You will only kicked out of the teleporter. I need something where the player is still inside teleporter and other players will see him inside too. And in this mods it will only fix teleporters, but i need a mod that fix also the problem when you crouch on a edge.


greetz (G)ott

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Re: stop image dropping

Post by JackGriffin » Mon Jun 20, 2011 6:51 pm

That has to do with relevancy Gott. You'll need to force all players to always be relevant and it will cure that. You will pay a price in lag though.
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Re: stop image dropping

Post by (G)ott » Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:36 pm

Ok, i know what you mean, but is it possible to make a player only relevant if he is visible for me and when i know that he is dropping a image (or crouching)?
I think this could reduce the lag, because not anyone is visible for me, so not all players are relevant.


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Re: stop image dropping

Post by JackGriffin » Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:48 pm

I've never tried it but the short answer would be no. Even if you coded in something that altered relevance depending on something situational then that relevance remains for several seconds even after is determined not to be relevant.
It's kind of confusing but in determining relevancy the check isn't as simple as yes or no. If something is deemed important to you then it loses that importance it does not immediately become !IsRelevant. It's better for something to have a global setting rather than for it to flip-flop because it's just that much more the game must compute constantly.
I did try this as a fix for the hidden monsters in MH and it was a dismal failure. The server crashed from the forced setting. However I have seen mods where playerpawns were forced to be always relevant and those did work.
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Re: stop image dropping

Post by Feralidragon » Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:51 pm

(G)ott wrote:Ok, i know what you mean, but is it possible to make a player only relevant if he is visible for me and when i know that he is dropping a image (or crouching)?
I think this could reduce the lag, because not anyone is visible for me, so not all players are relevant.


greetz (G)ott
The engine itself already works that way, that's the whole base of replication relevancy you're talking there. The problem is the moment he looses relevancy (when the "not visible" check times out determined object relevancy) and then you have it again all of sudden, but that information needs time to reach you again, in the meantime your side (the client-side) tries to simulate the whole to simply not stay "still", until you get the respective corrections.

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Re: stop image dropping

Post by papercoffee » Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:00 am

Can the mapper prevent this bug with ...some special kind of build??

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Re: stop image dropping

Post by JackGriffin » Tue Jun 21, 2011 1:54 pm

No, this has everything to do with replication and relevancy, probably the weakest part of UScript for nearly every coder. The best primer on the subject I've ever seen is here:
http://wiki.beyondunreal.com/Legacy:Rep ... bfuscation
but it is certainly not light reading. I printed this over a year ago and I've read it through many times yet I still refer back to it and learn from it.

In short UT was designed with the limitations of computers and bandwidth at the time in mind. Since the very best computers weren't even at the level of today's EReaders sacrifices were made to improve play. This problem is one of them. Also too you can't forget that Epic was blazing new territory with UT and there are problems in the code because they were learning also.
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Re: stop image dropping

Post by JackGriffin » Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:28 pm

In doing my monthly cleanout I did find this mod I didn't know I had:
HideNPeek.zip
It pretty much forces the exact thing we are talking about. I have no idea how well it works but you can see in the code how to change the relevancy. I'm curious if you use this, please let me know back what happened.
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Re: stop image dropping

Post by (G)ott » Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:51 pm

i know this mod... HnP fixing a bug named "window trick".
if you behind a small wall and your to ca 60 % invisible for a other player, then you will after some seconds complete invisible for him. the same is with glass windows.

HnP does only fix this one, but not the dropping bug.

EDIT: maybe it needs only a small change in HnP to do this job?


greetz (G)ott
Last edited by (G)ott on Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.