UT Bot View tilting / Ps2 thumb stick lock on view tilting.

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UT Bot View tilting / Ps2 thumb stick lock on view tilting.

Post by SilverSound » Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:32 am

Hello all! I'm not exactly new by any means but this is the first time I actually made an account for this site. I usually lurk on forums to find the answers I need. But today I'm going to talk about something that's intrigued me ever since I started playing UT back in 1999.

So around the time I started getting into this game ( about when I was 4 or 5. Yes I know...I started young...) I was intrigued by the bots. I had this weird obsession to be like them. Kinda like pretending. So I ended up copying the bots in every way.

So to do this, I watched and studied. Then I found out you could watch them in first person by dying while viewing them, then re-spawning.

I think it's a bug that happens but it puts you in first person view. (I didn't know anything about the console yet)

First thing I noticed was that the Bot's had there weapons in the center view. Second, I noticed that they seemed to tilt their view when they were "locked on" to a target. This mostly happened when they strafed while "locked on". Fast forward a few years and I got into the editor. Later I found scripting. I tried my best to understand and find where this happened. I couldn't find it. A few years ago I got UT99 for the ps2 (just for the heck of it) I discovered that when you hold down the right thumb stick you get a "lock on" type of thing. It's the same exact lock on I saw the bots use while I was watching them in first person those many years ago! Strafing caused the screen to tilt.

So here is my question. How would I go about finding this code? I have my ideas. I think this might be located in the Aiming code for the bots. I'm just not skilled enough on my own to do this. I've sorta been shuffling through hundreds of lines of code but still can't really find a solid lead.

My goal is to make a mutator that adds this "tilting lock on" feature for my ultimate fantasy. ;-;

I'm 19 and still like doing this sorta of stuff. It's fun.


I also enjoy watching a ferbot try to beat a godlike bot. They are kinda evenly matched when the godlike bot is maxed out on things.


I'm sorry for the long post and if this is in the wrong section, let me know where it should have been. I do hope some of you happen to read this all and give me some of your thoughts on this. Thank you for keeping the UT99 community going! :D


P.S My next thing would be to add pawn possession in ut99 like ut2k4's "avatar" command.

Or make the TeamCannon & MinigunCannon Controllable pawns. I remember seeing a map when I was little have this feature. It was exactly what I was trying to do. A controllable TeamCannon pawn. oddly enough that is my second fantasy. I'm kinda weird haha.
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Re: UT Bot View tilting / Ps2 thumb stick lock on view tilti

Post by papercoffee » Fri Nov 06, 2015 3:17 pm

You want to be a bot?

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Re: UT Bot View tilting / Ps2 thumb stick lock on view tilti

Post by SilverSound » Fri Nov 06, 2015 9:15 pm

Back when I was little I did. I would even follow the apples and add aim error every time I shot. But the main focus right now is figuring out why they seem to be able to tilt there weapon and view when they strafe.

Start the game and spectate 2 godlike bots. Watch one of them in first person. They are bound to do it. Especially if they are set to a strafing/jumpy style.

It's a little more complicated then wanting to be a bot though. It is sorta hard to explain. The best word I can use to explain it kinda well is "pretend".
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Re: UT Bot View tilting / Ps2 thumb stick lock on view tilti

Post by EvilGrins » Sat Nov 07, 2015 2:24 am

papercoffee wrote:You want to be a bot?
Why is that so weird? I'd love to be a Skaarj... not permanently, just for awhile.

Switching to 1st person view from a bot isn't that difficult, I've got it setup to switch from 3rd to 1st person view on my F7 & F8 keys. There's a specific command line for it, forget it offhand and my computer's in the shop.

You just switch from bot to bot by hitting F5, then to 1st person if you like. Can be a little weird if the bot has a shieldbelt, because the shield is visible in the 1st person view and the shape doesn't always match the model of the selected bot.

Angling of the weapon isn't unusual, depending on which weapon it is. Has the same effect even from your own view, your view not bot view, so I'm not sure what you mean. I suggest you take some screenshots and post them here so people can see what you mean.

Do you mean this?
Image

Or this:
Image
This last one is what happens when you've got an insane amount of health and you get hit with an NW2 nuke in a very tiny room.
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medor wrote:Replace Skaarj with EvilGrins :mrgreen:

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Re: UT Bot View tilting / Ps2 thumb stick lock on view tilti

Post by UT Sniper (SJA94) » Sat Nov 07, 2015 2:55 am

I was intrigued by the bots. I had this weird obsession to be like them. Kinda like pretending. So I ended up copying the bots in every way.

So to do this, I watched and studied. Then I found out you could watch them in first person by dying while viewing them, then re-spawning.
This sounds strangely familiar :lol:

I still watch UT3 bots.
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Re: UT Bot View tilting / Ps2 thumb stick lock on view tilti

Post by SilverSound » Sat Nov 07, 2015 3:01 am

I'm currently uploading a 50s video showing what I mean. (because I sorta rebound SSHot... it made my gamma go crazy when ever I hit it anyway) I'll edit post with the link when it's up.


The second image might be related once you see the video. It's sorta the same type of "leaning" or tilting motion. I think.

-- Edit by UnrealGecko --
UT Sniper (SJA94) wrote:
I was intrigued by the bots. I had this weird obsession to be like them. Kinda like pretending. So I ended up copying the bots in every way.

So to do this, I watched and studied. Then I found out you could watch them in first person by dying while viewing them, then re-spawning.
This sounds strangely familiar :lol:

I still watch UT3 bots.
Dear god. That's just scary! haha!

-- Edit by UnrealGecko (again)--



Ok here's the vid. I just realized that I dumbed down Archon to help train my friend. He used to be max. But this is a godlike one on one.

You should see right away the tilting happening. There is a section where he uses the flak. That is a different type of tilting that happens when they don't see the target all the time. (or just doing that walking in and out of cover thing)

I would like to point out this exact thing happens when you hold down the right thumb stick in UT ps2.


Edit: Forum posting is tough ;-;

there I fixed it... you owe me a cookie now!
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Re: UT Bot View tilting / Ps2 thumb stick lock on view tilti

Post by EvilGrins » Sat Nov 07, 2015 5:38 am

Couple of things:
1) Mods of this forum will get on your case about double-posting... and to be honest, you triple-posted. Your 3 responses above you could've edited into 1 post. Lil' heads up.

2) The reason this didn't work...
SilverSound wrote:[yt] [/yt]
You only need the gQabrD_YfA4 part.

As to the angling your pointing at, bots can handle certain things we mere mortals cannot. This includes more dramatic views.
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medor wrote:Replace Skaarj with EvilGrins :mrgreen:

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Re: UT Bot View tilting / Ps2 thumb stick lock on view tilti

Post by SilverSound » Sat Nov 07, 2015 7:33 am

Oh. Crap. Well I'm really glad you told me that. I'm so used to skype with the whole instant messaging thing. I guess I should have thought about that. Sorry for the mass posts.


But the goal for me here is to make it so us mere mortals can do that.

I know it's possible. It's in the PS2 version of UT.

My end goal is to add this in as a mutator of some sort but I'm not an expert at this stuff.
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Re: UT Bot View tilting / Ps2 thumb stick lock on view tilti

Post by sektor2111 » Sat Nov 07, 2015 7:58 am

SilverSound wrote:But the goal for me here is to make it so us mere mortals can do that.
What you want it's already done but in Monster Formula, and it's called AIMBOT which is a cheat allowing support at aimimg enemy and even firing weapon in that moment + a smart formula to adjust aim depending on Ping.

If I make a mutator for such feign-bot type behavior (with less accesed nones errors) I'll bet you get kicked from any server because this means cheating.

If you have discovered UScript perhaps you wanna understand that thing is automated and won't get tired ever as human + doesn't include flaws only if are randomized. This way isn't allowed in game by default as long as human has always flaws and is losing focus in random moments, but UScript does not.

Aside
I was a bot in random moments for testing navigation (aka Bot Pathing) in maps which I sorted from a mountain of files. If some map bugged me but it was cute designed, I have fixed pathing. I'm sorry but in 2015 I don't host trash any more. I was morphing myself using a mutator posted in this forum (search for BotyMan2 - first version has a grave flaw in crappy maps and some gravity trouble) and you can start to navigate over all items (map shown by you in video is a good one, I know it) until you are full loaded and the rest is a road between armors. Won't drive you anywhere through JumpSpots (that's Bot personal underwear only LOL). Once starting your Navigation, Mutator even is turning you in direction of next Navigation Lamp and you have to touch those Lamps traveling in this way. When Nothing is visible a message is shown and you have to use a sort of teleporter or simply 2 points were to close to each-other, mutator moving you away or lamp is behind teleporter right next to exit. Imagine that I could make something to aim enemy at mutate command but that way is no game, player will only press fire and move keys doing nothing special, so to speak is a pretty retarded thing.
Another support for balancing A.I. with human exists in NsDM3 in which if you play a DM1on1 (the mostly) you have a mutate command to track enemy using Bot pathing finding it as Bot does. You might hunt this way if oponent is busy to camp and you don't know where is resting. Usually in NsDM3 not even monster is camping, only if is a stupid creature unable to follow paths. If you spawn a default Skaarj using a mutator perhaps you don't need to look for it, it will come for you. But I repeat: NOTHING for aiming purpose (so called: lock on target - and I think I can recall where is the code but I don't need to speak about that) that's not fair play and you should think well, all player has an advantage or NONE player has advantage.

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Re: UT Bot View tilting / Ps2 thumb stick lock on view tilti

Post by SilverSound » Sat Nov 07, 2015 8:18 am

sektor2111 wrote:
SilverSound wrote:But the goal for me here is to make it so us mere mortals can do that.
What you want it's already done but in Monster Formula, and it's called AIMBOT which is a cheat allowing support at aimimg enemy and even firing weapon in that moment + a smart formula to adjust aim depending on Ping.

If I make a mutator for such feign-bot type behavior (with less accesed nones errors) I'll bet you get kicked from any server because this means cheating.

If you have discovered UScript perhaps you wanna understand that thing is automated and won't get tired ever as human + doesn't include flaws only if are randomized. This way isn't allowed in game by default as long as human has always flaws and is losing focus in random moments, but UScript does not.

Aside
I was a bot in random moments for testing navigation (aka Bot Pathing) in maps which I sorted from a mountain of files. If some map bugged me but it was cute designed, I have fixed pathing. I'm sorry but in 2015 I don't host trash any more. I was morphing myself using a mutator posted in this forum (search for BotyMan2 - first version has a grave flaw in crappy maps and some gravity trouble) and you can start to navigate over all items (map shown by you in video is a good one, I know it) until you are full loaded and the rest is a road between armors. Won't drive you anywhere through JumpSpots (that's Bot personal underwear only LOL). Once starting your Navigation, Mutator even is turning you in direction of next Navigation Lamp and you have to touch those Lamps traveling in this way. When Nothing is visible a message is shown and you have to use a sort of teleporter or simply 2 points were to close to each-other, mutator moving you away or lamp is behind teleporter right next to exit. Imagine that I could make something to aim enemy at mutate command but that way is no game, player will only press fire and move keys doing nothing special, so to speak is a pretty retarded thing.


Thank you for your insight! I completely agree with you on the cheating aspect. But my intention here was never to go online into a server. If I truely wanted an aimbot I'd go for Hoolios and have at it. I'm a fairly decent player who can maybe win a few games. Besides you'd get rekt by the players if you tryed to pretend to be a bot.

So no. I don't really want an aim bot just something to let me do what they do. If this absolutely has to include the aim with it then....well I guess it's not that big of a deal for me. I would be in a singleplayer match and you can't really force a mutator on someone's server anyway. I'm sure this feature could be implamented in a way that would let you enable specific aspects. But I don't know how hard something like that would be so apology's if I'm sorely wrong.

The bots do more than tilt when in combat though. They do it when they make a turn as well.




This bottyman thing seems interesting and would solve my "move like a bot" part of being a bot. I will check it out. Could save me the trouble of bot testing my maps ( bots are the most picky a$$hats in the world...) Even if they don't go down a path I want to know if it works!
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Re: UT Bot View tilting / Ps2 thumb stick lock on view tilti

Post by Hellkeeper » Sat Nov 07, 2015 1:02 pm

UT Sniper (SJA94) wrote:I still watch UT3 bots.
This reminds me of the good old days of Unreal-design.com. We would organize botmatches with UT2004. Stuff like "full robot team against Mercs+Malcolm on CTF-Face3, 3scores or 20 minutes". Members would okace bets on the winning team and get to choose players or maps of the next round. Fun times.
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Deus Ex.

Post by UTX » Sun Nov 08, 2015 4:44 am

What you're looking for is found in Deus Ex, check this out:

Around the minute mark you will see how the screen tilts to the right, this is because in Deus Ex it is normal to do this, just as is jumping in Unreal Tournament, since it helps looking around corners and such when you wish to remain hidden. Luckily, Deus Ex runs in the same engine as Unreal Tournament so it may be fairly easy to bring that function into UT, all you would need to do is check out how it works in the Deus Ex classes. That will make it work when a player hits whatever key was set up to tilt the screen, however, to make the screen tilt automatically while moving may require to re-define movement altogether.

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Re: Deus Ex.

Post by SilverSound » Sun Nov 08, 2015 7:26 am

UTX wrote:What you're looking for is found in Deus Ex, check this out:

Around the minute mark you will see how the screen tilts to the right, this is because in Deus Ex it is normal to do this, just as is jumping in Unreal Tournament, since it helps looking around corners and such when you wish to remain hidden. Luckily, Deus Ex runs in the same engine as Unreal Tournament so it may be fairly easy to bring that function into UT, all you would need to do is check out how it works in the Deus Ex classes. That will make it work when a player hits whatever key was set up to tilt the screen, however, to make the screen tilt automatically while moving may require to re-define movement altogether.

Hmm. That's interesting. But I'm not sure it's the same thing. They look pretty similer I'll give you that but this character has to stop to lean. The Bot's leaning looks center on screen and doesn't really make it so you could see around corners.

If I really wanted to find out how this is done, I'd have to really dig deep into the bot code.

But because I'm still sorta new to Uscript I don't think I'd be able to find it right away. That's why I went here to see if anyone would mind delving into this with me.

Here is a video of the PS2 view tilting in action. Look familiar?




The only real difference is that I can only strafe when I hold down the thumb stick. I can't turn while moving.
Also the view does lock-on occasionally making this look like bot aim, but it's surprisingly hard to get that to work all the time.
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Deus Ex.

Post by UTX » Sun Nov 08, 2015 7:54 am

I am quite sure that what you're looking for is in the Deus Ex code as I said already. In Deus Ex you can tilt the screen while moving, you don't need to remain still for it to work. To make it work in UT the way you want it, all you would have to do is reduce the angle so it only tilts a little, then you have to make the screen tilt only when players are turning around. Another thing that calls my attention is how the screen doesn't move up or down, just side to side, you should check that out, I'm sure both of those things are what you're looking for.

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Re: UT Bot View tilting / Ps2 thumb stick lock on view tilti

Post by Dr.Flay » Sun Nov 08, 2015 8:29 pm

Some work has been done to add tilting (and more) for Unreal
Body wareness mod by Z-enzyme
http://unrealsp.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1829#p38927

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