MH-EscapeFromNaZaliBeta1

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sektor2111
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Re: MH-EscapeFromNaZaliBeta1

Post by sektor2111 » Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:18 pm

There is a cons at original MonsterWaypoint from original MonsterHunt. When anyone is touching that thing there is no longer interest in area because "hunters" are heading to next position. It's why you need to put them behind whatever doors near a PathNode for keeping their interest in zone. Could be helpful a bit some FearSpot but still having a chance for being touched too early by human hunter or even during combat. More safe is disabling it...
When you will understand well these I will show you other options. I have actors deactivating MonsterWaypoint until "Mini-Boss" from stage is killed (they can be triggered) making Bots to insist in area instead of rushing map. For a more aggressive and motivated combat rather than only running, there are usable a sort of HuntNodes blocking routes when Bot has a visible enemy and forcing the battle not the racing through map like with hair burning. I have to admit that compiling stuff in original MonsterHunt it's not that possible and then all these must be done separately or added BEFORE using anything from MonsterHunt package... or using MonsterHunt for coders as editing package. You need some practice for using HuntNodes because they do have similar rules with BlockedPath more exactly should not have a path over them because this way they won't have any purpose. See map MH-3072-FloorWays_rv1 for figuring Bot setup. There was not needed any MonsterWaypoint because MonsterEnd was enough - it's reachable in all MH versions...

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Re: MH-EscapeFromNaZaliBeta1

Post by Buggie » Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:29 pm

New Awesome skybox "1000 stars". Absolutely non-repeatable.
MH-EscapeFromNaZaliBeta3_420200719232910.rar
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Last edited by Buggie on Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: MH-EscapeFromNaZaliBeta1

Post by Barbie » Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:19 am

I got also some hints:
  1. The sniper rifle should be available to players when facing the SkaarjSnipers.
  2. The carcass fragments you put on the boat (and maybe somewhere else) have a limited life time (up to 120 (?) sec). So they will have vanished when players reach that location.
  3. A second PlayerStart group would be nice, maybe in that area where the weapons are. I saw there is already one. Something went wrong in game and I respawned always at the first player start group. Maybe you should use only ONE event and a dispatcher to activate the second and deactivate the first player start group.
  4. Again (and last time ;) the suggestion to set the ReturnGroup for two-parts-doors.
  5. The glowing eyes of the NaliStatue do not move with the statue. Suggestion: make the NaliStatues static.
"Multiple exclamation marks," he went on, shaking his head, "are a sure sign of a diseased mind." --Terry Pratchett

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TexasGtar
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Re: MH-EscapeFromNaZaliBeta1

Post by TexasGtar » Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:04 pm

Barbie wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:19 am
I got also some hints:
  1. The sniper rifle should be available to players when facing the SkaarjSnipers.
  2. The carcass fragments you put on the boat (and maybe somewhere else) have a limited life time (up to 120 (?) sec). So they will have vanished when players reach that location.
  3. A second PlayerStart group would be nice, maybe in that area where the weapons are. I saw there is already one. Something went wrong in game and I respawned always at the first player start group. Maybe you should use only ONE event and a dispatcher to activate the second and deactivate the first player start group.
  4. Again (and last time ;) the suggestion to set the ReturnGroup for two-parts-doors.
  5. The glowing eyes of the NaliStatue do not move with the statue. Suggestion: make the NaliStatues static.
I agree, the sniper rifle is needed now that they have the good UT sniper rifle. They weren't so tough before with the unreal rifle.
The carcass fragments... do you mean online? I have taken over 30 minutes to get to boat a couple of times and they were still there.
Never had that player start issue before. It is swapped when the 3rd door is opened with door event. I can swap it out to dispatcher.
see pic. Sorry about the Return Group. Must have missed it. Is this all I have to do...see pic.
The eyes, I thought I would try a lens flare, I'm still not sure I like it. I flip flop back and forth on that. The statues do not move. I'm not following along with your thought on this.
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returngroup.jpg

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Re: MH-EscapeFromNaZaliBeta1

Post by sektor2111 » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:22 pm

Entertaining... these doors respond at GRAB any time as I see in picture. You don't need to fight for doors, just open them like Bots...

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Re: MH-EscapeFromNaZaliBeta1

Post by Barbie » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:48 pm

TexasGtar wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:04 pm
The carcass fragments... do you mean online?
Yes, online, see pic:
Bild3.jpg
(But what I don't understand: all fragments have a "LifeSpan" value of 20, bStatic=False, bNoDelete=False, so ALL fragments should have vanished after 20 seconds. But they differ in RemoteRole and bNetTemporary. Is that the reason why some fragments (FemaleHead) don't vanish?)
TexasGtar wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:04 pm
Sorry about the Return Group. Must have missed it.
Yes, setting an unique string for "ReturnGroup" for each mover of a group that should return when one part is blocked. (See also Wired Mover sounds.) But it only makes sense for movers controlled by triggers and not by bump.
TexasGtar wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:04 pm
The statues do not move.
Try an exploding ripper blade or Shock rifle ball or rocket:
Bild1.jpg
<edit>
What I've notice while looking your map in Zone View: Are you sure that the zone "Lazer Security Zap" works? It does not differ in Editor's Zone View.
"Multiple exclamation marks," he went on, shaking his head, "are a sure sign of a diseased mind." --Terry Pratchett

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Re: MH-EscapeFromNaZaliBeta1

Post by TexasGtar » Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:08 am

Buggie wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:49 am
Read this:
https://utfiles.lagout.org/GameTypes/Mo ... update.pdf
Thank you.
Buggie wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:49 am
MonsterEvent-A screen displaying message that last around 5 seconds. This is your main instruction actor when creating intros, progressing and outtro's. All players will see this on their screens. Very important actor in telling the ' story ' or just as a ' thank you for playing' message.
Git it. Adding them in. Got some in already.
Buggie wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:49 am
About Priest Timer:
Maybe possible toggle Priest when all killed in zone or near to it.

For example if only one monster left activate Priest with delay in 15 seconds with appropriate message about that.
If you want make challenge.

Or simple activate it when all monsters dead.

Or activate by player touch, if you want all left to player.
So how do you toggle him on and off? Like a round robin trigger or something? Trigger pound?
Let's say he gets out of cell goes to the first door and opens it, then how do I turn him off again to wait until he is triggered again?
I just don't know how to do this but I love the idea of him to wait until area i clear.
-------
Buggie wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:49 am
Empty maze at one end of start zone. Look like unfinished part of map.
Yes I am developing some fly area there. It;s work in progress there. I almost have it fleshed out now.
Buggie wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:49 am
Flies can block doors. Better make it slide doors.
Also for player hard open such door from back side.
Done. Sliding doors with return group set.
Buggie wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:49 am
On start zone fps drop to 15. Not good.
Removed the fire waver light effect. You can give me fps update when you get to last area since i have added a ton more stuff in the tower docks area.
Buggie wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:49 am
Need message when touch sphere. Something like "Hmm. I think Nali Priest help me with these strange things..."
Good idea. I'll get that included.
Buggie wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:49 am
2 Manta at hole in ceiling before third door always missed. Better move it close to hole.
Moved closer to edge. Done.
------
Buggie wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:49 am
Nali patch to 3 door very strange in some places. Try watch on it.
I had a lot of trouble getting him to walk to the 3rd door. I got him to do it with that extra patrol point. I have since removed it and got him to walk better.
Nali does not like at all red path line and refuses to use them. lol So picky.
Buggie wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:49 am
Laser grid under after first door. What is that? It id deadly or not? Players must know before they touch it and die (or not die).
It used to be a pain zone but I have removed it. It was another challenge that didn't work very good. I also hated the textures even though they are in nalicast utx they
sure do not look like they belong. Nali didn't like pain zone so there will be no security zap to turn off now. I just removed the whole thing. Too many rum and cokes when I was playing around with this idea. It never panned out.
------
Buggie wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:49 am
Boats can be triggered from water if you swim near. So you try swim near for get to boat and boat started and go away. Nice.
lol. I am thinking I will build a new boat that you can get on from the water on 3 of 4 sides. That should eliminate that issue.
-----
Buggie wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:49 am
Nali scared by water monsters and return back. Boats started swim without him. it is not good. Nali should able travel on his boat even if player not clear way.
The nali boat only goes 1 time. Not sure what to do about this. You are right, but..I don't know the solution yet.
-------
Buggie wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:49 am
I delete all TorchFlame and fps stop drop to 15 at start area.

NextAttempt: I set LightType to LT_None for all TorchFlame and FPS stop drop.

So you need adjust LightType for all TorchFlames. Only few must use not LT_None.
This allow you save beautiful look and high FPS.
------
Tested with 10 TorchFlames with LT_Steady. FPS drop to 25, not 16 but too not comfortable.
So better avoid light effects at all for great performance.

Or make 1-2 light effect per visible zone.
Done.
------
Buggie wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:49 am
Skybox still look bad.
I think need bigger sphere for skybox area.
Or make texture smaller. Currently stars too big.
Okay, my secret is out. I suck at skyboxes. I'll keep working on it. Thanks for the cool skybox things.
I'll see what I can do to make it better.

Great feedback. I think there is still some things from other comments you had too. Were you the one checking the pathnodes too close message? I have reworked a lot of the pathing. Hopefully it is getting better.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sektor2111 wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:22 pm
Entertaining... these doors respond at GRAB any time as I see in picture. You don't need to fight for doors, just open them like Bots...
I don't know what this GRAB is, I assume it is a cheat to open doors? I can stop bots with blocked paths but I have no clue how to stop a player from doing it or how they do it. Or what it is.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Barbie wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:48 pm
Yes, online, (But what I don't understand: all fragments have a "LifeSpan" value of 20, bStatic=False, bNoDelete=False, so ALL fragments should have vanished after 20 seconds. But they differ in RemoteRole and bNetTemporary. Is that the reason why some fragments (FemaleHead) don't vanish?)
Ah, sounds like I need to add just female heads in there..lol Okay I didn't know that. I don't know anything about map things online. I appreciate your help on these things.
Spoiler
Show
That boat is just a sinking trap anyway. I just wanted to have a clue, maybe not take that boat with all the body parts, like the visual clue of the red flag on boats you should take. Someone said my boat flag won't work online though, so I have to fix that too.
Barbie wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:48 pm
Yes, setting an unique string for "ReturnGroup" for each mover of a group that should return when one part is blocked. (See also Wired Mover sounds.) But it only makes sense for movers controlled by triggers and not by bump.
Ah. Very good. I don't ever remember using that setting before.
Barbie wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:48 pm
Try an exploding ripper blade or Shock rifle ball or rocket:
Ah..lol...okay I see now.
Barbie wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:48 pm
What I've notice while looking your map in Zone View: Are you sure that the zone "Lazer Security Zap" works? It does not differ in Editor's Zone View.
It used to zap you and i was making a turn off challenge but I didn't like it and I have the whole area cleared of that mess now. No more zap zone.

======================
Thanks good stuff. Don't be mad but i made a couple new areas since beta3 lol I can't help myself. Adding that sniper rifle also had me making some 'protection' rooms for monsters. Plus some other stuff.

=========================================================
@evilgrins - Those skaarj Lords are not as tough as the Berserkers but you were right, they seem to not attack each other.
=====================================================================

Okay, back to work!
TO DO LIST:

=======================
Okay the spawn items in boxes. I have a 50 shield in one box. The problem with adding items spawn from box destruction is that they continue to respawn so it isn't a one time gift. If you can explain how to make contents a one time item I will add health vials, but i don't want players to fill up health because of it. I have added med box and health vials on death of safe room monsters.

--------------------------------------
critical event messages
===========================
Tools - replace texture. - Thanks for this Buggie. Forgot about this tool.
=============================
make objective screenshots
============================
see if sector can check paths too close again.
=====================================
fix boat pathing. LE-LC-LE combos
=================
boat mover collision closed gateway issue.
====================
add time limit explanation to readme(if needed)
====================
Find way to keep red flag of boat online.
???avoided by using other non-static actors with a mesh changed????
====================
Need message when touch sphere. Something like "Hmm. I think Nali Priest help me with these strange things..."
=====================
@sector - I'll get to the waypoint stuff in the multiplayer version
====================
build boat you can get on from water
=========================
see about a triggeron and off for Nali timer bypass.
===============================
Last edited by TexasGtar on Tue Jul 21, 2020 5:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: MH-EscapeFromNaZaliBeta1

Post by Buggie » Tue Jul 21, 2020 5:24 am

TexasGtar wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:08 am
So how do you toggle him on and off? Like a round robin trigger or something? Trigger pound?
Let's say he gets out of cell goes to the first door and opens it, then how do I turn him off again to wait until he is triggered again?
I just don't know how to do this but I love the idea of him to wait until area i clear.
IDK. Maybe via extends Nali class with some code.

if you do not want extends Nali, you can try use few Nali for this.
First Nali reach HomeBase, pray and disappear in air. HomeBase activate Trigger for CreatureFactory of next step.

When you need next Nali you toggle CreatureFactory which produce new Nali with appropriate OrderTag for another set of PatrolPoint.
After this Nali done his way, he ended in HomeBase and disappear too.
Again HomeBase activate Trigger for CreatureFactory of next step.

Repeat until all your needs in Nali suited.

Not tested it, but this must work.

Or you can make own trigger which reset Nali state to Patroling + set OrderTag for it.

Code: Select all

class PatrolTrigger extends Triggers;

var() name OrderTag;

function Trigger(actor Other, pawn EventInstigator) {
	local ScriptedPawn sp;

	foreach AllActors(class 'ScriptedPawn', sp, Event) {
		sp.OrderTag = OrderTag;
		sp.GoToState('Patroling');
	}
}
Make few Patrol path and switch to next path with this trigger.
Last edited by Buggie on Tue Jul 21, 2020 3:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: MH-EscapeFromNaZaliBeta1

Post by sektor2111 » Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:42 pm

Unwanted Paths aka reachspecs can be removed later or un-referenced from Navigation list chain - it's doable because these are not constants using the same way as TranslocDest removes paths in games without Translocator - that is a bit of tech which I can manage. Else some of these combos are not Needed, and a Nali using Boat through other monsters perhaps won't really work. MH mods are many and... results are nasty. I would like to see another battling setup using an enemy monster and nothing like a friend because Nali is not exactly a friend in MonsterHunt unless you want to figure if that "MakeNaliFriendly" actor does what it's supposed to be done...

Movers
State TriggerOpenTimed has NOTHING, but Nothing with bUseTriggered. This bUseTriggered is Epic's brain-fart ruining a lot of MH maps - even Bots are getting used to cheat these doors in a second if they want to pass through. Every single player can stay in touch with mover and using GRAB (default key < G >) door is opening without any trigger ignoring TriggerOpenTimed which is a STATE not a property.

Map supports ground/water paths in more places - there are ZERO needs for jumping at 2000 UU ahead = IMPOSSIBLE PATHS, to not forget the door closed. Those closer paths can be taken as warnings in plain devs because in such a spots might happen to see Bots looping, but this doesn't mean that all of them are damaging, in other hand, too many in a place are useless and a processing charge without to help. If Pawn can get to a PathNode in a room, other two nodes linked there and closer, are just pointless.

Static Actors - find replacements which are not running animations and change meshes accordingly, a WoodenBox can be a Lamp as a Lamp can be a WoodenBox and so on in the game aspect.
One of features which MapGarbage has is that it can turn a supposed static decoration into a real static thing and no one knows what is there if is not checking actor because actors can wear other meshes if they don't run certain animation even a BlockAll can be a static decoration. A PathNode set non static attached at Boat is not helpful, All Mover supports LIFTCENTER actors, dedicated for this task. For Non static decorations attached here and there I would switch bStatic with bNoDelete or making an empty subclass of them in MyLevel mapped in original as a default Non Static thing - here original MH might be a lousy bugger at compiling MyLevel codes.

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Re: MH-EscapeFromNaZaliBeta1

Post by OjitroC » Tue Jul 21, 2020 6:04 pm

I just played the first part of the latest version (beta3) using the SinglePlayer4UT mutator (which enables quicksaving of progress) - got the NaliPriest to open the first door but after that he just wouldn't move from the side of the purple 'crystal'.

If you want tougher SkaarjLords you can try altering some of their default properties (like Skill, Aggressiveness, CombatStyle, GroundSpeed, Acceleration, Health plus upping their melee damage) and give them a different projectile (like one of the higher damage DispersionAmmo, say 3, 4 or 5).

Perhaps the order of the availability of the weapons should be reconsidered? For example, the shock rifle would be useful for dealing with the flies at the start and the bio rifle would be useful for getting rid of the pupae on the level above the starting room (though lobbing flak shells through the grids works OK).

Is it worth spending much time on fixing bot pathing in a version of the map that is intended to be played by just one player (and not by bots) - given that there will be a full, proper MH version to follow (when the bot pathing will be important)?

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Re: MH-EscapeFromNaZaliBeta1

Post by sektor2111 » Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:27 pm

OjitroC wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 6:04 pm
Is it worth spending much time on fixing bot pathing in a version of the map that is intended to be played by just one player (and not by bots) - given that there will be a full, proper MH version to follow (when the bot pathing will be important)?
Who said that it needed much time ? It's needed MH knowledge and we don't pay money for doing it. Then we can have a map for next 20 years done for everyone. Does it hurts ? No it doesn't. A patch executed for this map can change map's mechanics in run-time switching triggering stuff in other way. A half of job is already done if doesn't need extra-pathing tweaks. The more it's the map completed the easier is patching if it needs it later.

Looking around stage report:
Useless_Links_LiftTagProblems.PNG
These combos should not have links each-other, Bot should not switch paths like that. They are another load.
Map has 4888 reachSpecs - perhaps other ammo is connected causing a lot of paths in a single place. I repeat, you can CUT-PASTE ALL ammo elsewhere in a TXT file, build paths in a cleaned map and then PASTE back ammo adjusting it a bit. You can use XC_EditorAdds for pathing if you think it won't add extra jumps trouble makers. Allow me to see what can else can be simplified.

Edit: Keep going, let's see another sample. Too many nodes visible Each-Other - talking about that LE-LC distance.
Here is what is was:
Spot_Before.PNG
Here is after a few placement modifications:
Spot_After.PNG
Each of these arrows means reachSpecs, compare these two instances. Worth adding a bunch in a single place ? No, it doesn't, and area is navigable with bi-directional paths except those jumping down in water which are... one-way. And this is what I did with Editor's DevPath without using anything recently done...
Let's call it Deck Area:
What it was:
Deck_Before.PNG
And another style - not a must have but definitely less pathing data created:
Deck_After.PNG
And here I did not use XC_EditorAdds and manual washing of what I might find as not needed.
Forum is restrictive in attachments otherwise I could show you tunnels before deck.
Last edited by sektor2111 on Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: MH-EscapeFromNaZaliBeta1

Post by OjitroC » Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:17 pm

sektor2111 wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:27 pm
Who said that it needed much time ? It's needed MH knowledge and we don't pay money for doing it. Then we can have a map for next 20 years done for everyone. Does it hurts ? No it doesn't.
My comment was directed to TexasGtar more than anyone else - I was merely suggesting that perhaps it isn't worth his while spending time perfecting the bot pathing in what is intended to be a single player map. I'm sure that your comments on the pathing will come in more than handy for the MH version of the map.

@TexasGtar - I think setting the DrawScale of the minature Slith at 0.25 reduces their health from 100 (increasing the DrawScale does increase health so I assume that the opposite is true) - it certainly looks like it me when using sektor's MHHud mutator as the health is in red (meaning it is low) though I can't actually make out what the precise figure is. Perhaps you might want to increase their health?

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Re: MH-EscapeFromNaZaliBeta1

Post by Barbie » Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:54 pm

OjitroC wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:17 pm
increasing the DrawScale does increase health so I assume that the opposite is true
Yes, you are right, see Pawn.PreBeginPlay():

Code: Select all

if ( DrawScale != Default.Drawscale )
{
	SetCollisionSize(CollisionRadius*DrawScale/Default.DrawScale, CollisionHeight*DrawScale/Default.DrawScale);
	Health = Health * DrawScale/Default.DrawScale;
}
"Multiple exclamation marks," he went on, shaking his head, "are a sure sign of a diseased mind." --Terry Pratchett

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Re: MH-EscapeFromNaZaliBeta1

Post by OjitroC » Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:09 pm

Barbie wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:54 pm
Yes, you are right, see Pawn.PreBeginPlay():

Code: Select all

if ( DrawScale != Default.Drawscale )
{
	SetCollisionSize(CollisionRadius*DrawScale/Default.DrawScale, CollisionHeight*DrawScale/Default.DrawScale);
	Health = Health * DrawScale/Default.DrawScale;
}
Thanks for that - had a vague recollection of seeing that bit of code before somewhere. So reducing the Slith DrawScale to 0.25 reduces their health from 100 to 25.

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Re: MH-EscapeFromNaZaliBeta1

Post by TexasGtar » Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:24 am

I am not opposed to getting the paths perfect in this or the multi version map. My comment was mainly trying to say, I'll get to that once map is finished all the way(not that it isn't important to me). But keeping it good up to this point is okay with me.

=================
I'll get to all the feedback soon.
-----------------------------
Right now I have an issue. Is it possible to use the assault info to get objectives in a monster hunt map? I tried 1st objective but it appears not to recognize it. I think having mission objectives makes sense in this kind of map and a screenshot in case people get lost to help them find their way.

Is there some other actor that I can use to make the mission objectives work in MH? (F3 button in assault)

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