MH-EscapeFromNaZaliBeta1

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TexasGtar
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Re: MH-EscapeFromNaZaliBeta1

Post by TexasGtar » Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:11 pm

I happen to like the Nali Challenge.
I even got him to ride my boat to the end.

Don't worry everyone. The multi player version will not have anything to do with the Nali.
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Re: MH-EscapeFromNaZaliBeta1

Post by Red_Fist » Sat Jul 25, 2020 5:39 pm

"Don't worry everyone. The multi player version will not have anything to do with the Nali."

Boo hiss, :mrgreen:

I was thinking, and I still didn't play the map, but if you did want a nali to survive I wonder if by switching it's health and or "attitude" through certain sections of a map, I bet a PropertyFlipper would be perfect for that.

Say you went through a rock falling area with the Nali, you could trigger his health to 10000000 and survive. Then when you leave it could be switched back whatever you want.
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Re: MH-EscapeFromNaZaliBeta1

Post by Barbie » Sat Jul 25, 2020 6:24 pm

Red_Fist wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 5:39 pm
you could trigger his health to 10000000
Even then players will try to kill it, also to get score if game is scored by damage.
I still recommend a "ghost" Nali like in MH-Invasion_4.
"Multiple exclamation marks," he went on, shaking his head, "are a sure sign of a diseased mind." --Terry Pratchett

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TexasGtar
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Re: MH-EscapeFromNaZaliBeta1

Post by TexasGtar » Sun Jul 26, 2020 1:14 am

Beta 4 is here

https://www.mediafire.com/file/tni6jhz6 ... 4.zip/file

I think it is pretty good. Could use some feedback on whatever you see to finalize it.
I have gotten Nali out second gateway many times. Boat ride for Nali could be quicker.
Map has over 1000 monsters.

I liked the idea of the bio gun early so it is there if you can find it.
============================================================================

I'll start fleshing out the multi player version. How many monsters do you guys think is a good number for this?
I'm thinking 16,000. Is that too many?

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Re: MH-EscapeFromNaZaliBeta1

Post by Barbie » Sun Jul 26, 2020 1:45 am

TexasGtar wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 1:14 am
I'm thinking 16,000. Is that too many?
For me, yes. Repeated killing the same kind of monsters does not increase fun. Same is for monsters with high health - it's quite boring shooting 10 minutes at the same monster. Better vary some, for example Skaarj shooting rockets, Tentacles using grenades, and so on. I also like surprises like coming around a corner and run into the arms of a (triggered) Brute. Ofc that is more work than changing the capacity of a factory from 100 to 1000.
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Re: MH-EscapeFromNaZaliBeta1

Post by sektor2111 » Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:55 am

Like said, too much creativity is bugging map - you are rolling this.
In SERVERS you have network 1024 channels for communication between server and client. By having a high charge, game jitters a lot in network play. Forget this idea it's just ruining the fun. This is UE1 not UE4. Not many players are playing a map 20 hours, and there are more technical issues here. But... it's your map, do what you want with it.
Keep in mind that some people have written actors/items for removing extra-monsters spamming servers, you are going exactly in the other direction which is not helpful. If this map would be loaded where I do the server then I will write a patch for unloading the load.

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Re: MH-EscapeFromNaZaliBeta1

Post by EvilGrins » Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:30 am

TexasGtar wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 1:14 am
I'm thinking 16,000. Is that too many?
Just a smidge.

Howabout 900?
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Re: MH-EscapeFromNaZaliBeta1

Post by OjitroC » Sun Jul 26, 2020 8:23 am

I think 1,000 monsters are far too many for a single player map but OK for a MH map. You really don't want more than that. Remember "Less is More" - the map needs to be interesting and exciting, not boring - after a certain point, as Barbie says, kiling the same type of monster becomes boring. Plus, of course, getting killed a lot becomes boring as well.

Also remember, as sektor says, players can 'cap' the number of monsters spawned by factories to a number which they think is acceptable (and similarly cap the health of those monsters) - this applies off-line as well as on-line.

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Re: MH-EscapeFromNaZaliBeta1

Post by TexasGtar » Sun Jul 26, 2020 9:50 am

So 1000 is a good number. That's great. I'll get to multi playering the map.

The only place I was planning on adding more enemies was the final area. Maybe the hallways could use a few more.
I won't be adding anything to the factories. I like the way they are now.

I hate the shoot at a monster for ten minutes and it never dies too. I'll never do that. I pretty much leave the default health alone for all the monsters.
I might make minor adjustments.

1 more thing to say....remember that this is my first MH map, so sorry if some of this I do not understand.
I love the single player version. Something i can play and the 1000 monster count is not horrible for me. Plus there are 200+ that do not even need to be killed.
Squids devilfish. And 200 are flies. Easy pickins. The tower warlords are the toughest for me but I do send 3 at you on each tower.

If i play with bots i can get through this map in a few minutes with bots opening doors. I don't want the multi player to be too fast. What is a good time limit for a team MH map? Or how long should it take to get to end ? Or how long(time) is too long of a battle?

I will do whatever you guys want to the multi player version so it plays well online.

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Re: MH-EscapeFromNaZaliBeta1

Post by OjitroC » Sun Jul 26, 2020 1:29 pm

TexasGtar wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 9:50 am
I hate the shoot at a monster for ten minutes and it never dies too. I'll never do that. I pretty much leave the default health alone for all the monsters.
I might make minor adjustments.
One thing you can do with 'groups' of monsters - like the mercs, for example - is to increase the health of some of them (by, say, 50%) and perhaps swap their rockets for something a little more damaging - but not change anything else about them so it is not immediately obvious that some are more powerful nor obvious which ones are more powerful (with Skaarj warior types, you can alter health, ground speed and accelertion, as well as projectile type, to good effect). Quite often in that kind of situation mappers will increase the DrawScale of one merc so that it is obviously a 'Boss' but I think that's a little too obvious and potentially less of a challenge than altering some of the properties of some of a 'group'.

Another 'trick' is to spawn more of the monsters from factories rather than having them placed in the map - again like the mercs for example - and to space the spawnpoints out so that they appear in a number of different locations, possibly even behind the player (some MH maps have monsters of one type spawning from only one or two spawnpoints and it's possible just to headshot them as they appear - which can be fun, up to a point, but ultimately it's not that much of a challange).

Different people expect different things from MH maps but I think two key qualities of an interesting map are surprise and variety - the challenge for the mapper is how to achieve that.

As for the length of time the map should take - on-line I have no idea. Off-line, for me it really depends how interesting the map is to play - I might possibly spend a couple of hours in what I consider to be a 'good' map. The advantage SP has over MH is that the game can be saved so that a SP map doesn't have to be played in a single session - with MH you have to play to the end or lose what you have already done.

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Re: MH-EscapeFromNaZaliBeta1

Post by TexasGtar » Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:19 pm

Okay thanks OjitroC. I'll try to do some of those things. Sounds good.

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Re: MH-EscapeFromNaZaliBeta1

Post by Barbie » Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:48 pm

TexasGtar wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:08 am
TO DO LIST:
[...]
Find way to keep red flag of boat online.
???avoided by using other non-static actors with a mesh changed????
Solved and send via PM: Flag works fine online. Instead of "Lamp1" use Decoration "U" with following settings:

Code: Select all

Begin Actor Class=U Name=U0
    RemoteRole=ROLE_SimulatedProxy
    AttachTag=SticktoBoat1
    Rotation=(Pitch=32784)
    Mesh=LodMesh'UnrealI.Lamp1M'
    Name=U0
End Actor
"Multiple exclamation marks," he went on, shaking his head, "are a sure sign of a diseased mind." --Terry Pratchett

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TexasGtar
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Re: MH-EscapeFromNaZaliBeta1

Post by TexasGtar » Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:27 am

Barbie wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:48 pm
TexasGtar wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:08 am
TO DO LIST:
[...]
Find way to keep red flag of boat online.
???avoided by using other non-static actors with a mesh changed????
Solved and send via PM: Flag works fine online. Instead of "Lamp1" use Decoration "U" with following settings:
Thanks. I'll get that into the online version.

I was thinking the final area might be too much for large player load. Theres a lot of polys in that final area. Maybe I could tone it down to 1 tower and have 3 buttons on that one tower in various locations.
Make it a central fighting location instead of having all those polys in that water area.

Also I'll need to revamp the final gateway areas to make it bot path-able. Right now it is going to be a challenge to make it a good bot network.
Thank you for all your help.

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Re: MH-EscapeFromNaZaliBeta1

Post by Barbie » Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:00 am

In Beta4 I noticed some Mantas rested on the not visible ground of the dome (Brush327). Maybe you want to trigger them that they will fly into the battle area below.
Also the Mantas in Brush2437/Brush2438 are well hidden.
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Re: MH-EscapeFromNaZaliBeta1

Post by TexasGtar » Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:22 pm

Barbie wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:00 am
In Beta4 I noticed some Mantas rested on the not visible ground of the dome (Brush327). Maybe you want to trigger them that they will fly into the battle area below.
Also the Mantas in Brush2437/Brush2438 are well hidden.
Triggered the mantas brush 327

Deleted the other mantas, that area i was testing to see if they would fly in the windows, but they weren't very good at it. Just deleting them. That is really just a bonus area for those well traveled players who want the redeemer and bio gun.

Thanks and fixed.

Been working on the multi player map. Got it fleshed out pretty good but it has crashed twice on me while testing in that final area.
I think the 3 towers is just too much with full player load. One time it crashed I had 15 bots and me, the other time i was playing with 7 bots.
I have gotten through it several times without crashing, but those 2 crashes have me worried it is just too much going on. I'll have to rework that final area some to cut down the poly count.
1 time it crashed I was spectator and I went to the top of outside wall to get a good view of what was happening and it just stopped. Gave some error like tmale suicide or something? Couldn't find it in log.
I don't know where the crash error messages are stored.