Battle 4 Na Zali MH Beta Map

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TexasGtar
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Battle 4 Na Zali MH Beta Map

Post by TexasGtar » Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:39 am

Okay here is the first go round for the multi player frenzy monster hunt map.
Can be finished in about 10-15 minutes. You won't have time to kill all the monsters in this one.
Just try to escape the fortress. My current record is completion with 3 deaths.

I think I got everything ready.

https://www.mediafire.com/file/4xvepk7c ... b.zip/file

EDIT UPDATE: Here is the Beta 2 link. I think this map is done.
http://www.mediafire.com/file/bxzzpgv3p ... 2.zip/file

Looking for any and all input.
The bot pathing is a lot better, Still not perfect. I know the ramps down to middle level on towers need to be tweaked as bots jump and have a hard time going down those ramps, they do but it takes a couple of tries sometimes.
I saw 1 bot stuck in the water between the left boat and lighthouse.
I need to do some more triggering on sets of gasbags that are not acting right.
Everything else seems to be working good. Haven't noticed anything else.

FINAL RELEASE UPDATE
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14112
Last edited by TexasGtar on Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:02 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Battle 4 Na Zali MH Beta Map

Post by sektor2111 » Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:47 am

You can delete DistanceViewTriggers having nothing around, it doesn't make any sense

Code: Select all

//=============================================================================
// DistanceViewTrigger: When triggered, triggers all pawns within its collision radius
//=============================================================================
class DistanceViewTrigger extends Triggers;
....

You can read scripts, some of them are explaining what they do...
PathNode19 and those with similar usage... actually are useless. See this:

Code: Select all

...
Connected: PathNode19 to InventorySpot2623.
NoReachFrom: PathNode19 to point 0 which means Spawnpoint27
...
ShortcutConnected: PathNode19 to InventorySpot2624.
...
Connected: PathNode19 to PathNode133.
NoReachFrom: PathNode19 to point 1 which means Spawnpoint26
...
ShortcutConnected: PathNode19 to InventorySpot2616.
....
Connected: PathNode19 to InventorySpot2618.
...
ShortcutConnected: PathNode19 to PathNode16.
...
Connected: PathNode19 to InventorySpot2619.
...
Connected: PathNode19 to PathNode18.
....
Connected: PathNode19 to PathNode123.
...
Specs: No NavigationPoint heads to PathNode19 as shown in list. If a route passes through, it won't be usable.
I recommend using XC_EditorAdds for a better view of connections - perhaps not for mapping XC paths but... colors and arrows are visually explaining a lot.

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Re: Battle 4 Na Zali MH Beta Map

Post by TexasGtar » Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:01 pm

sektor2111 wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:47 am
You can delete DistanceViewTriggers having nothing around, it doesn't make any sense

Code: Select all

//=============================================================================
// DistanceViewTrigger: When triggered, triggers all pawns within its collision radius
//=============================================================================
class DistanceViewTrigger extends Triggers;
....

You can read scripts, some of them are explaining what they do...
PathNode19 and those with similar usage... actually are useless. See this:

Code: Select all

...
Connected: PathNode19 to InventorySpot2623.
NoReachFrom: PathNode19 to point 0 which means Spawnpoint27
...
ShortcutConnected: PathNode19 to InventorySpot2624.
...
Connected: PathNode19 to PathNode133.
NoReachFrom: PathNode19 to point 1 which means Spawnpoint26
...
ShortcutConnected: PathNode19 to InventorySpot2616.
....
Connected: PathNode19 to InventorySpot2618.
...
ShortcutConnected: PathNode19 to PathNode16.
...
Connected: PathNode19 to InventorySpot2619.
...
Connected: PathNode19 to PathNode18.
....
Connected: PathNode19 to PathNode123.
...
Specs: No NavigationPoint heads to PathNode19 as shown in list. If a route passes through, it won't be usable.
I recommend using XC_EditorAdds for a better view of connections - perhaps not for mapping XC paths but... colors and arrows are visually explaining a lot.
Awesome. I'll get on these things.

Hmmm. The distance view triggers. I'll go through them and see if I can find what you are talking about. They may be left overs from something.

Also did you look at the collision radius i have on those? Some are larger than default. Maybe there is something around? I'll check it out right now.
Are you saying the distance view trigger is supposed to be where a sniper is and the trigger for it is supposed to be where the target is?

I thought these worked the other way around. They weren't doing anything when I had them set up the other way. My understanding is that you put the DVT where the target is going to be,
and a trigger where the attack is coming from. Maybe I have that backwards. That was 2 hours setting all those up. Oh well.

I don't know what an XC is.

============================================================
Looks like it is a viable path to me. I put that one there specifically because the second skaarj guy sometimes would jump and fall in the water and he was having trouble getting out.
I guess I don't understand the logic behind the path 19 is useless.
path19.jpg
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Re: Battle 4 Na Zali MH Beta Map

Post by OjitroC » Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:06 pm

TexasGtar wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:39 am
Okay here is the first go round for the multi player frenzy monster hunt map.
Can be finished in about 10-15 minutes. You won't have time to kill all the monsters in this one.
I haven't played it yet but just wondered what you meant by not having time to kill all the monsters? Presumably there's no time limit, just that there are a whole lot of monsters?
TexasGtar wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:39 am
Are you saying the distance view trigger is supposed to be where a sniper is and the trigger for it is supposed to be where the target is?
From what I've read, I think the answer to that is yes. For example the Unreal Wiki says
Spoiler
Show
The DistanceViewTrigger actor is useful for making Bot (UT)s shoot an enemy when they see them in specific locations. They should be linked to a Trigger or TeamTrigger placed where the enemy will appear. When the DVT is triggered, any bot within its radius will start shooting at the person who activated the trigger.

Most DVTs are placed on top of DefensePoints and are usually used in cases where the designer wants the bot to shoot at an enemy very far away, such as a sniper spot. A good example of DVTs can be seen in UT's CTF-Face. The DefensePoints at the top of the towers have DVTs near them that are paired to Triggers across the map near the enemy base entrance (if memory serves correctly).
Though since the code refers to Pawn, it presumably doesn't just trigger Bots.

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Re: Battle 4 Na Zali MH Beta Map

Post by TexasGtar » Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:12 pm

OjitroC wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:06 pm
TexasGtar wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:39 am
You won't have time to kill all the monsters in this one.
I haven't played it yet but just wondered what you meant by not having time to kill all the monsters? Presumably there's no time limit, just that there are a whole lot of monsters?
I played it for 2 hours and ran out of time. I guess that is the default time limit? Had about 1750 monster kills playing by myself/no bots. Plus I was taking my time testing things out etc. You can probably do it with bots or enough players if you're so inclined. lol
TexasGtar wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:39 am
Are you saying the distance view trigger is supposed to be where a sniper is and the trigger for it is supposed to be where the target is?
OjitroC wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:06 pm
From what I've read, I think the answer to that is yes. .... Though since the code refers to Pawn, it presumably doesn't just trigger Bots.
Okay I'll see how it is done in Face. That was how I had them at first in the single player version but they didn't seem to work too good so I looked at another map and they had it switched around.
So I switched it around. I'll go switch them back. Thanks.

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Re: Battle 4 Na Zali MH Beta Map

Post by papercoffee » Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:16 pm

On CTF-Face the DVT setup is borked ...only bots on one team snipers. But I can't remember which one it was.

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Re: Battle 4 Na Zali MH Beta Map

Post by sektor2111 » Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:38 pm

TexasGtar wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:01 pm
I guess I don't understand the logic behind the path 19 is useless.
When a PathNode is OKAY it should have BIDIRECTIONAL links - TWO WAY connections - this is unreachable, nothing will use it as long as no reachSpecs have it as END: incoming (missing) and outgoing (it is only outgoing). This node has only ONE WAY paths. Pawns are using the rest of nearby Paths, not this one.
Situation is similar with this one - beautiful BLUE, but pointless - doesn't use a ground to step on it for Bot's/Scout's dimensions,
cft bot paths.
Last edited by sektor2111 on Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:49 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Battle 4 Na Zali MH Beta Map

Post by OjitroC » Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:39 pm

TexasGtar wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:12 pm
I played it for 2 hours and ran out of time. I guess that is the default time limit? Had about 1750 monster kills playing by myself/no bots.
Possibly, I always set it to 0 or 999 so that there is effectively no time limit (to avoid the map finishing before I get to the end, nothing more frustrating than that).
papercoffee wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:16 pm
On CTF-Face the DVT setup is borked ...only bots on one team snipers. But I can't remember which one it was.
I had a feeling that was the case but didn't find anything to confirm it - so CTF-Face is not an example of 'how to do' a DistanceViewTrigger.

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Re: Battle 4 Na Zali MH Beta Map

Post by sektor2111 » Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:40 pm

No, CTF-Face uses TeamTriggers for DVT addressing player types not monsters, forget it.
TexasGtar wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:01 pm
I don't know what an XC is.
You can use forum's search button for word "XC_EditorAdds" or whatever XC_Engine - maybe you can see the whole thread right on Index page...
The similar image is shown if you can use UT469 with the same picture...
PN19.PNG
Nothing comes to this Node for being a "Pass-Through". Usually in a borked CTF map a FlagBase has these sort of connections - exactly like this node - nothing comes to Flag making it to not work. Other nearby Nodes have INs and OUTs, not OUTs only.
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Re: Battle 4 Na Zali MH Beta Map

Post by TexasGtar » Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:49 pm

sektor2111 wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:40 pm
No, CTF-Face uses TeamTriggers for DVT addressing player types not monsters, forget it.
TexasGtar wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:01 pm
I don't know what an XC is.
You can use forum's search button for word "XC_EditorAdds" or whatever XC_Engine - maybe you can see the whole thread right on Index page...
The similar image is shown if you can use UT469 with the same picture...
PN19.PNG
Nothing comes to this Node for being a "Pass-Through". Usually in a borked CTF map a FlagBase has these sort of connections - exactly like this node - nothing comes to Flag making it to not work. Other nearby Nodes have INs and OUTs, not OUTs only.
That's just crazy. I never would have thought a path line doesn't go both ways.
If you test the map, and keep several bots around and go into that area after you open that door, you will see a lot of bots use that node to jump out of the water, or at least it appears that way. They will exit the water right there while fighting that second skaarj guy. Maybe it isn't a path, but it sure appears to be if you watch what happens in the fight over that area with several bots, Inevitably some will jump and dodge and end up in the water and that is where they will exit almost every time. I never saw one go the other way out towards the enter door.

I believe you and your arrows pointing, but i just wonder if a bot is thrown off his path by a blast or a dodge maneuver if it doesn't have to make a decision of restarting to pick up a pathnode closest to where they are? I don't know. Maybe mathematically and theoretically that node has no purpose, but if i remove it, I'll bet a lot of bots and monsters will get stuck in the water.
I probably ought to just redo that area(the pathing) so it works better.

That link and pictures tell it all. Blue lines, but one way, crazy!
=============================================================================
papercoffee wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:16 pm
On CTF-Face the DVT setup is borked ...only bots on one team snipers. But I can't remember which one it was.
lol good to know thanks.
=============================================
OjitroC wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:39 pm
TexasGtar wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:12 pm
I played it for 2 hours and ran out of time. I guess that is the default time limit? Had about 1750 monster kills playing by myself/no bots.
Possibly, I always set it to 0 or 999 so that there is effectively no time limit (to avoid the map finishing before I get to the end, nothing more frustrating than that).
lol Yeah, when it gave me the 5 minute warning I was like oh crap I better get a move on and then a warlord ended my hopes of actually making it to the end..lol

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Re: Battle 4 Na Zali MH Beta Map

Post by sektor2111 » Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:21 pm

TexasGtar wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:49 pm
That's just crazy. I never would have thought a path line doesn't go both ways.
Other PathNode is closer and valid, I'm not convinced if Bots will touch 19, because simply is over the water and they won't fly. If they are floating around, PathNode123 is definitely a normal one capturing their entrance in Paths-Net. A verbosing Bot might "tell" what is doing - but this is a hard catch.
Else, these One-Way arrows are in UT in X hundreds of cases. A Lower Node won't head to a higher node if No pawn can reach there except special combos. Node on the ground won't ever head to a node on a house, lol, that's One-Way, in Down-Way direction having reachFlag 9 if we talk about PathNodes and not others - Engine is simulating plain Real Life movement pretty well.
Also CTF maps where Bots are not interested about Flags are having such arrows at FlagBases (one of them or Both Bases are borked this way).
Here, in this map it's not a critical thing to be taken in account as #1 priority, it's a note. Technically if this would be my map I would not accept more than 3000 reachSpecs in any way, removing all extra charge done by items until path-net is mapped more simple as possible. Exiting from water in this spot could be more soft and if Editor is refusing a Two-Way connection that is doable manually or forcing Editor with two special nodes (subclass of Teleporter).
Bot Pathing in this map for me is not a challenge, it's something relaxing after a hard day at work. I often tweak maps when I need a relaxing time.

The challenge is making a Flight map for RX mods, but that's another story...
Here I did some fine tuning and look what I've got:
19_Connected.PNG
Editor gave me two options for exiting from water.

Edit:Gaming feed-back
I'm not sure what happened but in a session Bots finished map very quickly... MonsterEnd is not that reachable but... XC_MonsterHunt is different here and XC_Engine...
In other session game was running ages, last area is a heavy thing for my renders... too loaded.

As for that Node, Bot usually is heading to some nearby node but I still think that 123 was the good thing. I used testing commands for checking DevPath at exiting from water, guaranteed those One Way things are not helpful... only the luck helps. That node 19 needs lowered and well connected.
After that I exit game, I could not detect nearby ammo for SniperRifle and PulseGun in that large area is not that helpful, FPS went too slow. I'm not sure if those triggers are not slowing things down due to collisions processing.
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Re: Battle 4 Na Zali MH Beta Map

Post by Terraniux » Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:11 pm

Just played it, and it is good!
If this is your first MH map, bravo!

I do have a few minor points, which you may or may not have yet improved:

- Music? The map needs music!!!!
- The very first stage of the map ended dramatic for me...... Those skaarj with the flakcannon barrage kept me spawnkilling before I could even hit a bullet..... You might want to power down those boys.....
- I've got a pretty expensive rig which can handle any game on the current on high def, yet some area got me some lag ... the waterscenery/castle?/boat area got me fps drop.
- I / the boat couldn't get through the ending door, which I had to do a sneaky 'ghost' for
- Please more random armor / defensive pickups - not only as a secret or hidden pickup.

For the rest- Solid, pretty and smooth map!
Except for these little points I had good time! Will share the map with others :)

Good job!
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Re: Battle 4 Na Zali MH Beta Map

Post by TexasGtar » Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:14 pm

Terraniux wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:11 pm
Just played it, and it is good!
If this is your first MH map, bravo!

I do have a few minor points, which you may or may not have yet improved:

- Music? The map needs music!!!!
- The very first stage of the map ended dramatic for me...... Those skaarj with the flakcannon barrage kept me spawnkilling before I could even hit a bullet..... You might want to power down those boys.....
- I've got a pretty expensive rig which can handle any game on the current on high def, yet some area got me some lag ... the waterscenery/castle?/boat area got me fps drop.
- I / the boat couldn't get through the ending door, which I had to do a sneaky 'ghost' for
- Please more random armor / defensive pickups - not only as a secret or hidden pickup.

For the rest- Solid, pretty and smooth map!
Except for these little points I had good time! Will share the map with others :)

Good job!
Thank you for the kind words.
I have a plan for the music. It's in the works.
The 2 flak guards on each end or the 2 inside the east and west rooms? (you should have seen the complaints when i had 50 flies coming at you right out of the gate...lol)
I sometimes get whacked right out of the gate too. Those guys are pretty good huh? The guards are easier than the guy in the room above the door. What i do is stay back and attack like this.
I press left -right-left-right repeat the whole time. While taking a shot. He can't get you too often if you stay back and confuse him with the left right real quick movement.
Once he dies, go get his flak cannon and use that to take out the other guys. And stay back of them too. If you are too aggressive, or come right at them, they will get you every time.

I think it only takes 4 shots to down one so if you stay back and strafe left and right, you can usually take one out before he gets you. It also kinda depends on which cell you spawn in.
If you spawn in a cell across from the guard, remember that the door is solid (even though it looks like there is gaps they are a masked texture) but the door is solid and can not allow flak through it. Hide behind the cell door until it opens so he can't get you in the cell. These little hints might make it easier to get through that first area. It isn't easy though. I get killed too sometimes. It's a challenge.
A lot of people have mentioned that they would like a "safe" area to start in, but i just feel like there would be a guard ..guarding the 'prisoners'. I'll think about it. Maybe I could just go with 1 guard in the first area? Have to think about that.

==============
I am worried about the water area too. I had it crash on me 2 times in that area. One time I was spectating up high looking at everything, but 1 time i was playing so I'll have to figure out something.
Those towers and the surrounding walls add up to what is too many polys at one time in view. Maybe there is something I can do to lower it. I thought about going down to 1 tower, but I really like battling on top of the 3 towers. I'm sure I can lower the poly count, just wonder if it will be enough. I appreciate the confirmation though. I also have a slight lag coming out of the hall into the docks area.
I need to do something though. It's not good to have that much going on with that many polys to render too. Plus animated water, multiple monsters, etc. Beta 2 will have addressed that to some degree. I have too. Not happy with the performance in the water area.
=============
The final door will open if you touch the final star button just past the first gateway . Look to your right and you can see it. Stairway to left gets you up there from water.
Have not fixed the collision on the movers yet when the doors are closed. I have an idea though. Haven't put it to the test yet. That issue of boats going through is a known issue i need to fix.
============
More defensive pick ups. Will do. I think the itenm placement is really the worst part overall. I build map without really thinking about that part , then i go back and stick pick ups in. Not a good system.
After testing it I tweak it but, it's good to get people who know what should be there to help in this area.
=============
And yes, this is the only MH map I have made. A lot of the monster stuff I am pretty lost, like which one is best for which situation. The crew here has been a great help in informing me what to try.
When I started this map back in 2006, there was a monster hunt site with some mh clans that helped me get the basic stuff going. It's been sitting for a while and the Covid has given me time to try to finish it off. I always though t it had potential to be fun map. Thanks again for the feedback and help,

=========================================================================
=========================================================================
sektor2111 wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:21 pm
A Lower Node won't head to a higher node if No pawn can reach there except special combos. Node on the ground won't ever head to a node on a house, lol, that's One-Way, in Down-Way direction having reachFlag 9 if we talk about PathNodes and not others - Engine is simulating plain Real Life movement pretty well.
I got it. Just fascinating stuff.
sektor2111 wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:21 pm
Technically if this would be my map I would not accept more than 3000 reachSpecs ............
Bot Pathing in this map for me is not a challenge, it's something relaxing after a hard day at work. I often tweak maps when I need a relaxing time.
Everytime you build there are more reachspecs even if nothing is added. What's up with that. After a editor crash, it seems to go back down.
sektor2111 wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:21 pm
Edit:Gaming feed-back
I'm not sure what happened but in a session Bots finished map very quickly... MonsterEnd is not that reachable but... XC_MonsterHunt is different here and XC_Engine...
In other session game was running ages, last area is a heavy thing for my renders... too loaded.
If you play with a lot of bots (16) they can finish in ten minutes, that's about the fastest I have seen them do it.
In other games the bots will have fun shooting at squids and not rush to tower buttons. I think that is good that it plays different every time.
sektor2111 wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:21 pm
After that I exit game, I could not detect nearby ammo for SniperRifle and PulseGun in that large area is not that helpful, FPS went too slow. I'm not sure if those triggers are not slowing things down due to collisions processing.
Yup. I need to add pulse ammo for sure. Sniper ammo is in the tower button areas. I don't want to hand out too much sniper ammo. You have to earn that. But yes, i need to add more pulse ammo.
Totally agree about the slowing down issue in the final area. I'll remake my brushes to combine as many polys as I can. Do what I can and see what we have.
Last edited by TexasGtar on Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Battle 4 Na Zali MH Beta Map

Post by OjitroC » Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:05 pm

TexasGtar wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:14 pm
A lot of people have mentioned that they would like a "safe" area to start in, but i just feel like there would be a guard ..guarding the 'prisoners'. I'll think about it. Maybe I could just go with 1 guard in the first area? Have to think about that.
You could try a less powerful weapon (but then the flak cannon is probably needed to take out the guards in the side rooms) or you could reduce the health of the two guards in the cell area somewhat.

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Re: Battle 4 Na Zali MH Beta Map

Post by TexasGtar » Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:15 pm

OjitroC wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:05 pm
TexasGtar wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:14 pm
A lot of people have mentioned that they would like a "safe" area to start in, but i just feel like there would be a guard ..guarding the 'prisoners'. I'll think about it. Maybe I could just go with 1 guard in the first area? Have to think about that.
You could try a less powerful weapon (but then the flak cannon is probably needed to take out the guards in the side rooms) or you could reduce the health of the two guards in the cell area somewhat.
That's a great compromise. Good idea.
Yes the idea was to use their flak cannon to take out the side room enemies. It used to just drop the one he was using, but it wasn't enough ammo left to take out the side rooms so I added a dropped flak cannon upon death. This gives you enough ammo to get the job done in the side rooms.