Battle 4 Na Zali MH Beta Map

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OjitroC
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Re: Battle 4 Na Zali MH Beta Map

Post by OjitroC » Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:11 am

TexasGtar wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:15 pm
.. it wasn't enough ammo left to take out the side rooms so I added a dropped flak cannon upon death ..
I see - I was thinking "where did that come from, don't remember seeing that before" - now I know.
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I like the new addition to the side rooms and the ambush in there.

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sektor2111
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Re: Battle 4 Na Zali MH Beta Map

Post by sektor2111 » Sun Aug 02, 2020 5:29 am

Yep... I cannot believe that those Skaarj around start are such a big problem for people. If you play it On-Line with some folks in whatever server giving random weapons, perhaps those guys with their FlakCannons are... nothing like threat. Even OFF-Line I did not find them such a big deal. There are maps which I did harder than this one at beginning depending on hunter's aggressiveness. If hunter is very aggressive map responds in the same way or with a double strength. Just step slowly, retreat and MOVE in combat, don't sleep in shoes. When On-Line some "genius" is triggering everything causing a heavy ambush I wait him to leave and I'm re-voting map, yes, exactly I'm playing where are no voting restrictions because I want to play a map ignoring those which are playing 3 minutes, making a mess and then leaving... and admin is saying: you cannot re-vote the same map too soon. FALSE, if I like a map I think I want to play it 100+ times. Why not ? If your server doesn't allow me to re-play it, don't wait me there too soon.

Edit: The Map Chapter
TexasGtar wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:14 pm
Everytime you build there are more reachspecs even if nothing is added. What's up with that. After a editor crash, it seems to go back down.
Not exactly if you are cleaning map with Paths Undefine command, saving it, closing Editor, reopening Editor clean, and map and... Paths Define command applied in last build stage - or Adding Paths with XC_EditorAdds leading to a less load but which needs some tweaks here and there. I ALWAYS clean up paths before final build. After build, I also clean extra bytes with MapGarbage (VisNoReachPaths, OldLocation, other extra data from navigation network, moving at fixed coordinates InventorySpots, etc)

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Re: Battle 4 Na Zali MH Beta Map

Post by EvilGrins » Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:16 pm

Not home and haven't tried this yet, but wanted to address 1 thing.

Outside of the Assault gametype, no map has a time limit. The only ones that seem to are due to the settings that any player can control; before you start a game you set the time limit to 0 and BOOM... no countdown.

I'll take a spin at this map hopefully sometime tonight.
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TexasGtar
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Re: Battle 4 Na Zali MH Beta Map

Post by TexasGtar » Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:55 pm

EvilGrins wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:16 pm
Not home and haven't tried this yet, but wanted to address 1 thing.

Outside of the Assault gametype, no map has a time limit. The only ones that seem to are due to the settings that any player can control; before you start a game you set the time limit to 0 and BOOM... no countdown.

I'll take a spin at this map hopefully sometime tonight.
Its whatever is. I just didn't know about setting a time limit, but 2 hours is plenty. I was just dilly dallying and trying to see how many monsters there were.
Can't wait for you to try it.
==============================================
To ALL:
I just finished the comments given.
The gas bags are triggered now and they are a fun distraction now.
Redid ALL the distance view triggers and they are working good.
Added some pulse and defensive pick ups.
Fixed hinged door to slide that bots were getting stuck on.
Lowered health on cell guards.
Removed pathnode 19
Redid paths on those tower ramps.
redid paths getting from water to towers so bots do it easier.
And some other stuff too,

Tried to stop boat to no avail so far. Any suggestions on how to return boat if door is down would be good. I may have to just have the boat off until the gate is open. That makes sense but the boat goes all the way. Maybe I need one more boat at the last star lock. One boat per gate to avoid boat going through gateway door. Right now that is all I can think of.

Last thing to do before I release the second beta is to try and remake my brushes in water area and see if I can improve performance enough to keep the 3 towers.

=============================================
Once I finish sektor2111, if you want to fix any bad pathing on beta 2 , I'll stop work on it and let you do your thing. If you want to. I think it is going pretty good. Watched 1 bot and it did good.
But since you posted ..

"Bot Pathing in this map for me is not a challenge, it's something relaxing after a hard day at work. I often tweak maps when I need a relaxing time."

kind of sounds like you think bot pathing is fun..lol So if you are interested, let me get beta 2 ready and you can see if you can get it below 3000 reachspecs. That would be good if it comes back better without too much alterations. I will reserve the right to not use your version though if I don't like the changes. That's my offer.

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Re: Battle 4 Na Zali MH Beta Map

Post by sektor2111 » Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:35 pm

It's fun to add Bot pathing in any map with a decent size.
Let's talk a bit about the reality from now days. We do have an engine extension available for Editor and several functions in UGold - a newer Engine before UT469.
What's the big deal then ?
XC_EditorAdds does a better mapping of paths in overcrowded spots without to do so many connections, reducing paths at minimum. Not the last thing, Items hidden are not mapped in paths-net - usually I except ammo in these MH maps, Bots are collecting them anyway during a closer combat situation and player too.
I have another toy, MapGarbage helping me to except paths coming from higher spawnpoints or PlayerStarts which have no deal in the race to the end. If something doesn't look good, bad paths can be manually deleted in UGold and other ones can be added if are needed.
It's only one small problem, all MonsterHunt assets must be moved elsewhere (saved) because UGold is not compatible with MonsterHunt and won't open map. But final result is more easy to be processed by Engine because we are not scanning a lot of data in the searching paths process.
I cannot say that your PathNodes are bad, they are... just too many here and there generating a lot of data with no purpose. These can be reduced, spread a bit, Large areas are not a need to be full filled with Nodes, a route should be enough, there are actors pointing Bot to the nearest node in range if it was blown away.
And then, some HuntNodes might trigger more interest for combat rather than running and gunning, all is doable clean and efficient.

I can send you a small sample DM map done with a bit of manual work, you can rebuild paths with Editor and see differences between what was done and what Editor does especially in areas where map has more items.

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Re: Battle 4 Na Zali MH Beta Map

Post by EvilGrins » Mon Aug 03, 2020 4:04 am

Okay, minus a little confusion here and there, that was pretty fun.

Didn't like the lack of music.
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Re: Battle 4 Na Zali MH Beta Map

Post by sektor2111 » Mon Aug 03, 2020 3:31 pm

EvilGrins wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 4:04 am
Didn't like the lack of music.
I have a few hundreds MB of music on the phone, connected at PC. I think I don't have issues here :lol2: This music won't stop when map is switching, cough. UT music menu has the slider at MUTE position.

Edit: Regarding to the Boat moving requirements - perhaps Boat has to be a gradual mover or such (I cannot recall well) like in Tarmation2 map. Such movers can be triggered to move at certain keypoint depending on triggering stuff - toggling triggers on and off depending on last door. You cannot stop a mover when is encroaching with another mover or wall - dream on - but you can tell to the nice mover where does it need to stop.
Perhaps nobody has patience with Boats and all that stuff On-Line. Then, gradual movers do not have too much Bot Support, some MyLevel would be needed. We talk about an Exit Point and another Exit Point at other KeyFrame. In an edited Tarmation2 I wrote a controller and mover actually is "kidnapping" Bot with a bit of human help, area has paths but the UT Bot and the rest of angled ledges is not exactly the best thing. In that time I did not have a good Bot_Jumper... neither a manual paths handling tool. I don't think is needed any boat here, just a blocked path and touch protectors for WayPoints until last area is clean and last door opens at once with unlocking paths to End which needs to be reachable. The fact is that a gradual mover won't really return as I recall until is called by a desired trigger - if I'm not mistaking.
As a By The Way toward Boats. MH-CrystalMine3 map has a patch plugin for creating run-time paths in all required areas. As you can guess, that Long Way boat doesn't include Bot Support because its geometry has no Bot compatibility like it was MH-Freeky with that ugly train. In MH-Freeky I changed train and I fixed things but in CrystalMine3 I had a hobby for writing a patch instead of redesigning boats. Bots are hunting using WATER, swimming properly and getting closer to end where original DevPath stops working... not XCGE24. Some day I might want to rewrite that patch plugin but... not so soon, it works as it is and it's suffice.

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Re: Battle 4 Na Zali MH Beta Map

Post by Red_Fist » Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:21 pm

I never tried boats and trying to get bots on and off before, I was amazed to see them get on that boat. LoL (the other map)
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TexasGtar
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Re: Battle 4 Na Zali MH Beta Map

Post by TexasGtar » Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:47 pm

Red_Fist wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:21 pm
I never tried boats and trying to get bots on and off before, I was amazed to see them get on that boat. LoL (the other map)
The 'Escape from' map was supposed to be single player, no bots.

The strategy is totally different than this map.
That map- Work with the Nali Priest to help you and him escape. Defend the Nali to get him to open doors for you. Clear areas in front of Nali to prevent the Nali from walking into danger.
==================
This map, destroy everything in sight as you and your teammates escape. Typical MH map.

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Re: Battle 4 Na Zali MH Beta Map

Post by Red_Fist » Sun Aug 09, 2020 7:01 am

I understand what you are saying and how the map is supposed to be played. But my norm or my last game I had two bots and got carried away, from playing the map.
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Re: Battle 4 Na Zali MH Beta Map

Post by TexasGtar » Mon Aug 10, 2020 3:26 am

Red_Fist wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 7:01 am
I understand what you are saying and how the map is supposed to be played. But my norm or my last game I had two bots and got carried away, from playing the map.

Ah, okay. I think evilgrins was playing it with bots too. My bots would just take out the nali first chance they got. lol
================================================

UPDATE:

Beta 2 is almost done. Seems to run better in the final area now.
Got a couple of things I still need to get done. I think a good player count is 6 if you keep them "cover me" makes a fun game.
I have been trying all different player counts up to 16. Seems to play good no matter what the count is. Doesn't take too long to finish. 10-15 minutes.
If you want a longer game you can explore other areas not necessary for getting to end. (30-50 minutes to complete all areas) Anything less than 6 bots help is a tough battle.

I've added sniper ammo at water area. Those warlords were just too much without the sniper rifle help. I've pretty much done everything that was suggested. Some of the things I didn't think were needed until I thought about it and tested enough then I realized, Hey, that is a good idea. (Like the sniper ammo)
Done a lot of testing. Bots seem to do pretty good.

I have to finish up a few things and I'll be ready to call beta 2 a done deal. Not sure how much more it needs. I think it is pretty full now.
Just fleshing out a few things. Maybe next weekend I'll have it ready to go. Depends on how much time I have to spend on it this week.


==================================
BETA 2 - I think I am pretty much done with this one. Let me know what you think. 6-10 players seems to be fun for me.
http://www.mediafire.com/file/bxzzpgv3p ... 2.zip/file

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Re: Battle 4 Na Zali MH Beta Map

Post by sektor2111 » Sat Aug 15, 2020 10:12 pm

At your recommendation I did some stunts reducing paths from 5019 reachSpecs to 1520.
However... after the trip executed through UGold, something with regard to map's zoning is going into a full mess. Actors are now reported in a sort of iLeaf thing which do looks like they are into void. When Navigation Points are in void, MapGarbage won't do a re-link for Navigation chain - if new things must be completed. Then... first area has HOM effects here and there.
Shot0001.png
It doesn't worth too much pathing work if map has BSP issues and geometry needs solved. Last thing to do is Pathing.
The fact is that map can be simplified for Pathing subject excepting PlayerStarts, SpawnPoints and any QueenDest from being mapped and referenced with reachSpecs making map more simple, to not forget excepting ammo because these are just overcrowding network.
I'll send you the edited one, perhaps you can solve geometry without touching paths. You can see differences between what is was and what it is.
First area to me is a bit laggy, exactly like the last area.

Edit:
DoubleEnforcer is not a weapon, is place-holder without code, we are using Enforcer. Lifts must match their Combos or else are just buggers.

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Re: Battle 4 Na Zali MH Beta Map

Post by Barbie » Sat Aug 15, 2020 11:40 pm

TexasGtar wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 3:26 am
BETA 2 - I think I am pretty much done with this one. Let me know what you think. 6-10 players seems to be fun for me.
http://www.mediafire.com/file/bxzzpgv3p ... 2.zip/file
Again I have problems to compress this map, and I guess it is no problem with v459. Can anyone using v459 compress and send me that file? Thanks!
"Multiple exclamation marks," he went on, shaking his head, "are a sure sign of a diseased mind." --Terry Pratchett

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Re: Battle 4 Na Zali MH Beta Map

Post by Buggie » Sun Aug 16, 2020 1:02 am

Compressing ..\maps\MH-Battle4NaZaliBeta2.unr (16669191 bytes)
stage 0: 0.701176 secs
stage 1: 490.120667 secs
stage 2: 0.791771 secs
stage 3: 0.947903 secs
Total: 492.561518 secs
Compressed ..\maps\MH-Battle4NaZaliBeta2.unr -> ..\maps\MH-Battle4NaZaliBeta2.unr.uz (26%)
MH-Battle4NaZaliBeta2.unr.zip
(3.55 MiB) Downloaded 2 times
Again problem with movers.
AttachMover2 has Model1030 with size 406481.
Maybe you UnrealEd produce enormous size models.

Top 20 size in bytes:
71253
74910
77981
87593
87600
87602
101343
121667
122480
144579
144730 - Mover18
203079 - Mover23
349752 - nebula sky textures
349752 - nebula sky textures
349752 - nebula sky textures
349752 - nebula sky textures
349752 - nebula sky textures
349752 - nebula sky textures
406481 - AttachMover2
6790590 - BSP tree

Rebuild and compress witn v469.

Compressing ..\maps\MH-Battle4NaZaliBeta2.unr (13364061 bytes)
stage 0: 0.578754 secs
stage 1: 11.525994 secs
stage 2: 0.709379 secs
stage 3: 0.827416 secs
Total: 13.641543 secs
Compressed ..\maps\MH-Battle4NaZaliBeta2.unr -> ..\maps\MH-Battle4NaZaliBeta2.unr.uz (30%)
MH-Battle4NaZaliBeta2.unr.zip
(3.5 MiB) Downloaded 4 times
For get map use ucc decompress.

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Re: Battle 4 Na Zali MH Beta Map

Post by Barbie » Sun Aug 16, 2020 1:41 am

Thanks!
But... better change the file name when you have modified the file. For my public server I've already done it.
TexasGtar wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 3:26 am
BETA 2 - I think I am pretty much done with this one.
I put it on my server, played it some minutes and want to suggest:
1) Noone wants to kill 1000 flies. 100 should be enough.
2) There is no safe area at start. I would change the prison doors to be closed after bump. So respawned players are safe in their cells.
"Multiple exclamation marks," he went on, shaking his head, "are a sure sign of a diseased mind." --Terry Pratchett

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