Battle 4 Na Zali MH Beta Map

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Red_Fist
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Re: Battle 4 Na Zali MH Beta Map

Post by Red_Fist » Sun Aug 16, 2020 2:55 am

Do this, I am pretty sure it will fix the void problems and probably other problems.

select ALL brush
Use ying yang icon to invert
click on any actor, send to last

Then
Select ALL non solids
send them to last

Then select all movers
Send them to last

Rebuild map
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TexasGtar
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Re: Battle 4 Na Zali MH Beta Map

Post by TexasGtar » Sun Aug 16, 2020 4:26 am

Barbie wrote:
Sun Aug 16, 2020 1:41 am
Thanks!
But... better change the file name when you have modified the file. For my public server I've already done it.
TexasGtar wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 3:26 am
BETA 2 - I think I am pretty much done with this one.
I put it on my server, played it some minutes and want to suggest:
1) Noone wants to kill 1000 flies. 100 should be enough.
2) There is no safe area at start. I would change the prison doors to be closed after bump. So respawned players are safe in their cells.
Sector just handed back the reduced reach spec repathed version, so I'll fix those things you suggested and fix the lag at cell area and release the final version.
I'll bump the flies to 100. I set it that way to deter people from backtracking. Once you get past them they are just a non factor, but I will reduce to 100.
I was thinking it would stop people from going back to get redeemer if the fly contingent was too intense upon returning to starting area. If you play by yourself they are never ending almost.
It took me 4 hours to get to the end by myself and kill every monster....lol. The flies finally quit after about 50 minutes lol. Okay so that will be done, just trying to explain why I did it.
I must admit that even I was getting tired of the flies.

I can change the doors, but I am wondering if a fly can still get through the openings? I think they probably can. Those square segments are about 64 X 64. I'm thinking a fly can still get through the cells.
I'll test it out and see. Once I reduce the number of flies, the doors being open may not be an issue. but it is no issue to change it to your preference. I'll tell you a little secret I discovered during one of my many hours of testing. For some strange reason, if you stand in the corner of your cell behind the bucket, the flies do not attack, they act like they can not reach you and back off. Little trick I found, can't explain it.
Maybe flies don't like corners? Maybe they fly with a circular radius and can not reach a corner? More useless fighting strategies. Ha!

Thanks for testing it online too. That really is a big help and something I have no way to do.
==================================================================================
Red_Fist wrote:
Sun Aug 16, 2020 2:55 am
Do this, I am pretty sure it will fix the void problems and probably other problems.

select ALL brush......
Send them to last

Rebuild map
That is not necessary as I have done that already when you suggested it in the other map thread. Hasn't crashed on me since I did it.
================================================================================
sektor2111 wrote:
Sat Aug 15, 2020 10:12 pm
At your recommendation I did some stunts reducing paths from 5019 reachSpecs to 1520.
That's amazing! Good job.
sektor2111 wrote:
Sat Aug 15, 2020 10:12 pm
However... after the trip executed through UGold, something with regard to map's zoning is going into a full mess. Actors are now reported in a sort of iLeaf thing which do looks like they are into void. When Navigation Points are in void, MapGarbage won't do a re-link for Navigation chain - if new things must be completed. Then... first area has HOM effects here and there.
No problem, I'm sure I can fix any zoning and HOM issues.
sektor2111 wrote:
Sat Aug 15, 2020 10:12 pm
The fact is that map can be simplified for Pathing subject excepting PlayerStarts, SpawnPoints and any QueenDest from being mapped and referenced with reachSpecs making map more simple, to not forget excepting ammo because these are just overcrowding network.

I'll send you the edited one, perhaps you can solve geometry without touching paths. You can see differences between what is was and what it is.
First area to me is a bit laggy, exactly like the last area.

Edit:
DoubleEnforcer is not a weapon, is place-holder without code, we are using Enforcer. Lifts must match their Combos or else are just buggers.
I will address the first area lag issue. I was able to reduce 400 polys from view in that final area and I removed half the fire effects. It is better but yes the cell area also need to have some fire removed.

If I put enforcer in map, you don't get double enforcer when you pick it up. I thought double enforcer made it so when you picked it up you have double enforcers.
Explain lifts must match combos. Not following you there.

I'll get those homs fixed and NOT rebuild paths when I rebuild map.

Buggie
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Re: Battle 4 Na Zali MH Beta Map

Post by Buggie » Sun Aug 16, 2020 6:20 am

As far as I understand, any light from any actor, except for static light without effects from the Light actor, is considered dynamic and loads the client very heavily.
So I advise you to convert your torches to the Light actor. In theory, this should greatly improve FPS. Even if you leave the same number of light sources.
------
Use
STAT FPS
and
STAT GLOBAL
in UEd for show stats in 3D window.
And notify difference between Textured view and Dynamic Light view.

Also pay attention at ILLUM param at global stats. Here is your dynamic light.

Image

Image
----
See stats here:
Image

And after that:
1. Select one TorchFlame
2. Menu - select all TorchFlame (94 all on map) - actor properties - Lighting - LT_None.
3. Menu - Duplicate.
4. Select Light in Actor Browser.
5. Menu - Replace to Light with keep properties.
6. Actor properties - Lighting - LT_Steady.
7. Rebuild light.

And now:
Image

Pay attention at ILLUM= at left top corner.
-----
Duplicate actors shift duplicated actor so you need switch at top view and shift Actor for match old ones.

Also all of this improve FPS on all map. Include towers.
Maybe not so beautiful as before.

Red_Fist
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Re: Battle 4 Na Zali MH Beta Map

Post by Red_Fist » Sun Aug 16, 2020 6:54 am

Luvin this UT community right now, you all ROCK. !!!
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TexasGtar
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Re: Battle 4 Na Zali MH Beta Map

Post by TexasGtar » Sun Aug 16, 2020 7:21 am

Buggie wrote:
Sun Aug 16, 2020 6:20 am


Also all of this improve FPS on all map. Include towers.
Maybe not so beautiful as before.
You have to make sacrifices for gameplay. That has always been my opinion. If map doesn't play fast enough, it doesn't matter how beautiful it looks.

I'll get on fixing the torch flames.

=========================================
@sector2111

Tried the map you sent me and the bots get stuck at tower. see image, also some other paths are not going through anymore.

And are the player starts in the air for a reason?

Before you spend any more time on it, I think i will use my version. I see what you have done and will try to tone down the reachspecs where I can, although I know I won't get it to where you have it.
I want to thank you for all the effort and the helping me understand how it works better and to tell you I appreciate all the work you have put in to make the map as good as it can be.
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sektor2111
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Re: Battle 4 Na Zali MH Beta Map

Post by sektor2111 » Sun Aug 16, 2020 9:40 am

PlayerStarts are not charging anymore network, if another connection is missing in outside of that spot, give me a name of something from that area and let me check details. Here might be actors escaping me, and no, those starts are good as they are, they don't need anything. And yes, they are in air for going over EyeHeight - Unreachable, recommending PathNode as entry into network and not blind Starts. They don't hurt anything, player spawning there won't lock start allowing others to spawn - that's how I do PlayerStarts in maps because this is not doing any damage and preventing extra useless reachSpecs - by hiding them into ground before building paths 8) .
These are my options:
One of my maps:
SimpleStarts_0.PNG
And this is another, not mine, but now it has FULL BOT Support:
SimpleStarts_1.PNG
Ok, I'll drop an eye at first area - Bots in this map should be freelanced or else they won't move very soon - it's MonsterHunt not me.
All missing links can be connected - that's not a problem. That's why I asked you to check it well privately.

Edit:I've done a rebuild in 451 Editor, I could add into network some nodes which you wanted, now allow me to create linking reachSpecs. I'm curious if this build will get screwed by UGold. Hang on...
Edit2:Okay, added a few connections - in RocketLauncher hallway (not with ammo), linked nodes nearby small bridge over that small water area, I connected SpawnPoints too because I think in water they have another deal in devs and might not be helpful out of paths, Mercenary hall has now 4 extra reachSpecs (not really needed there).
I sent you modified version - let me know if anything else is needed.
And... NO, such a map is not for order "ATTACK" in MonsterHunt because JumpBots are needed (spectating makes Attack) which are the first goal not the waypoint. They won't move anywhere for a Waypoint out of JumpBots and ATTACK order won't help at all in this case. XC_MonsterHunt doesn't have any issue here... JumpSpot in such cases is a filter blocking Pawn out of navigation capabilities and then FreeLance it's what is needed for plain MonsterHunt - which I'm not using for a few years. FreeLancing is letting them to breath a bit and collecting items. When Pawn has jumping capability, path is unlocked.
In mean-time, if you fix all geometry problems and final one will have over 3000 reachSpecs I'll use an adjusted version as long as ALL MonsterHunt versions used by me are not having any sort of problem with Bots running in place like original has. I only need simple paths logically connected and letting Devs to work smoother without fighting against stupid Attack Order codes from original MH503.

Plain paths in plain fields are not having any jumping issue in original MonsterHunt.

Edit3: BUGGIE is The Man.
Buggie wrote:
Sun Aug 16, 2020 6:20 am
...
And after that:
1. Select one TorchFlame
2. Menu - select all TorchFlame (94 all on map) - actor properties - Lighting - LT_None.
3. Menu - Duplicate.
4. Select Light in Actor Browser.
5. Menu - Replace to Light with keep properties.
6. Actor properties - Lighting - LT_Steady.
7. Rebuild light.
...
Pay attention at ILLUM= at left top corner.
And now... I love you - I used MapGarbage to add some light almost how you said (bHlpAddActor option) - it's SMOOTHER, man :rock: . I never knew this Lightning stuff, you are the man.
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TexasGtar
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Re: Battle 4 Na Zali MH Beta Map

Post by TexasGtar » Mon Aug 24, 2020 2:52 am

Buggie wrote:
Sun Aug 16, 2020 6:20 am


And after that:
1. Select one TorchFlame
2. Menu - select all TorchFlame (94 all on map) - actor properties - Lighting - LT_None.
3. Menu - Duplicate.
4. Select Light in Actor Browser.
5. Menu - Replace to Light with keep properties.
6. Actor properties - Lighting - LT_Steady.
7. Rebuild light.
I can't find a "5. Menu - Replace to Light with keep properties."

Where is that. I don't have a "replace" on my menu.

Buggie
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Re: Battle 4 Na Zali MH Beta Map

Post by Buggie » Mon Aug 24, 2020 4:18 am

v469 item.

On v436 you need copy all selected actors to clipboard instead of Duplicate it, paste in good text editor, replace all

Code: Select all

Class=TorchFlame
to

Code: Select all

Class=Light
copy back to clipboard and paste back in editor.

Also need adjust after paste on all 3 projection, because added offset +32uu on each axis.
----
Check on v436 - all fine.
Offset correction can be made only on Top view. Z coordinate +32uu not harm at all. Maybe even better.

Completely fix fps on start zone. Tower zone I not check before fix, but I think better from before. But still laggy from some angles. So need search reason of this. Maybe can be eliminated too.
----
RMODE 6
in game turn off light at all.
No significant FPS change noticed.
So problem not in light.
Nodescount = 3200+. It is big for one scene.
So it is reason.
If you want improve FPS on tower you need consider use more easy geometry.

If you look at Portal zone view you can see bsp nodes. And this is totally hell here.

Look like you not use semisolid brushes at all.

I think If you make many of additive brush semisolid it great reduce count of bsp cuts -> reduce nodes count.
For this operation additive brushes must be not used for substract after that.

It is not easy part. But all changes reversible. you can not screw up geometry. Just return previous solidity and all reversed.
Context menu on selected brush - Solidity. Rebuild geometry, check nodes count.
For example I win ~30 nodes on this angle of view if make this brush semisolid:
Image
1108 nodes turns to 1082:
Image
As you see bsp cuts reduced from:
Image
to:
Image
-----
If you see bsp holes, errors, artifacts, invisible collisions - return brush back to solid.

Usually semisolid good for brushes with independent and visible from most sides.
Pillar is good candidates.

here win of 120 nodes: 1173 -> 1057
Image
Image
to
Image
Image
As you see semisolid pillars not make bsp cuts on floor and ceiling.
----
Terrain for floor in water zone - bad choice. nobody notice difference or event notice terrain here. Too dark.
Flat floor is fine here. And this allow great (I think) reduce bsp cuts.
----
Another example:
Image
Image
842 -> 748
Image
Image
----
Again win 100 nodes:
Image
Image
1293 -> 1194
Image
Image
----
Ceiling in zone too need replace with substract cylinder. Currently is something unreliable. In any case it is used for skyzone. Players do not see sphere here.

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TexasGtar
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Re: Battle 4 Na Zali MH Beta Map

Post by TexasGtar » Mon Aug 24, 2020 6:02 am

Thanks. That's a lot of help. I am back working but will find time to get to this.

I have already done some of the things on your list. I'll try the copy and paste trick on the torch flames.
I have eliminated the terrain seafloor. It was causing 3 bsp holes. Once I deleted that brush all went away.

Most of the pillars underwater are gone now. Just the 3 piers have 2 pillars now.

I thought you weren't supposed to intersect semi solid brushes with zone portals like sheets ? Am I remembering that wrong? My water zone will be intersecting those pillars if I turn them semi solid.

All good stuff. I have cleaned up a lot of the tower area too and it plays a lot better now. With all this it should be real easy online with no lag.
Now just to get it done.

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Re: Battle 4 Na Zali MH Beta Map

Post by Buggie » Mon Aug 24, 2020 6:17 am

About intersect semi solid brushes with zone portals like sheets:
I do not see any problem here.
But you can always check it yourself and make own conclusion.
Trial and error method always work fine.

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Re: Battle 4 Na Zali MH Beta Map

Post by TexasGtar » Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:11 pm

I couldn't do the copy and paste so I just went and manually changed the lights for the torch flames.
Wasn't that time consuming.
I'll be out of pocket while I deal with the hurricane but I'll get this wrapped up soon.

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Re: Battle 4 Na Zali MH Beta Map

Post by Buggie » Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:52 pm

You can ask anyone, send map and someone copy and paste back this flames. Works for 5 minutes.

But I not understand why you can not do it yourself?

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TexasGtar
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Re: Battle 4 Na Zali MH Beta Map

Post by TexasGtar » Tue Aug 25, 2020 6:06 pm

Buggie wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:52 pm
You can ask anyone, send map and someone copy and paste back this flames. Works for 5 minutes.

But I not understand why you can not do it yourself?
I already did it one at a time.

I guess I don't understand how I am to copy torchflames and paste lights.
I understand copy torchflames and paste torchflames. But, it's already done. I just did one group at a time. Didn't take too long.

It does run like a much simpler map now. Great insight on how the engine consumes the same resource differently.

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TexasGtar
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Re: Battle 4 Na Zali MH Beta Map

Post by TexasGtar » Tue Aug 25, 2020 6:17 pm

Buggie wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 6:17 am
About intersect semi solid brushes with zone portals like sheets:
I do not see any problem here.
But you can always check it yourself and make own conclusion.
Trial and error method always work fine.
Well I am just going by a distant memory. I remember something about semisolids causing issues when and I don't remember what.

I got rid of all the bsp holes. There was 2 pillars in water below the ground that were causing issues and the terrain underwater was causing issues. I have tested and not seen any bsp holes anywhere. And I looked hard. Played a match with 32 bots and no issues. Ran like a top. Finished map in 12 minutes.

Thanks for all your help getting it very playable. You know I started with 5 towers in the water area, lol Cut it to 3 and was considering dropping it down to one, but looks like all these changes have really improved the speed to where it will work.

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Re: Battle 4 Na Zali MH Beta Map

Post by Red_Fist » Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:28 pm

Yes, don't cross the greenys with the pinkys. First thing I do if I fix a map, who wants unknown BSP and collision problems when you are trying to fix unknown BSP and collision problems to begin with.

Oh I see the hurricane is gaining strength now. Move to Michigan, , it's just as hot as there this year, LoL you will feel right at home. No earthquakes, volcanoes, hurricanes, sharks, rock slides, we have very few tornadoes and crap ass winter.
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