ChaosUT - MH adds - Generation 3

Need some nice Mods? Here, you are right!

ChaosUT - MH adds - Generation 3

Postby sektor2111 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:07 pm

In order to not go OFF-Topic in different locations we can debate here solutions for making Chaos friendly with games using ScriptedPawns (aka monsters) not only MonsterHunt but those like MonsterHunt.

Worked so far:
- Proxymine - spam useless errors and does nothing when monster bump them - solved - compatible at conforming. To see, test and check Claw handled by Skaarj ?;

- Adjusting Z for replacements in order to prevent the fall of items from map, another way is required, a child mutator will be used because it needs new values, otherwise won't be compatible at conforming.

In order to continue fixing, please post other Chaos errors recorded in MH.

EDIT:
Chaos Generation 3 - usable in MH games is probably ready to go. Download link is HERE.
Last edited by sektor2111 on Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
sektor2111
Godlike
 
Posts: 3930
Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 6:15 pm
Location: On the roof.

Re: ChaosUT - Why not MH ?

Postby SilverSound » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:26 pm

Should be obvious but I'll post this anyway.

Poison arrows won't do much in MH. Seeing as how even bio has some issues on sith. (think EG posted about this. So just for the record.)




I haven't played MH with Chaos enough to have anything else. I'll have to do some extensive tests on a test map. (unless someone else could do that better.)
"Woah what?! I wish I was recording that...."
User avatar
SilverSound
Adept
 
Posts: 282
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:12 am
Location: St. Cloud, Florida
Personal rank: Curious

Re: ChaosUT - Why not MH ?

Postby EvilGrins » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:05 pm

Generally when doing MH I make sure "weapon stay" is selected, so players don't need to wait for a weapon to respawn because someone else got there first.

Problem is CHOAS disables weapon stay. Even if I exit out and reset it, the moment Chaos pops up (even when only using Chaos' mutator) it automatically disables it.
http://unreal-games.livejournal.com/
Image
medor wrote:Replace Skaarj with EvilGrins :mrgreen:
User avatar
EvilGrins
Godlike
 
Posts: 6175
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 8:12 pm
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Personal rank: God of Fudge

Re: ChaosUT - Why not MH ?

Postby OjitroC » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:27 pm

sektor2111 wrote: In order to continue fixing, please post other Chaos errors recorded in MH.

The following are not necessarily just errors but flaws (have included issues raised before) - refers to playing with ChaosUT set to replace UT stuff - numbers relate to the weapons slot

2 - Sword (replaces BioRifle) - does not always get bloody (or very bloody) when slicing up ScriptedPawns. The alt-fire projectile blocking doesn't work against projectiles from ScriptedPawns (as far as I can tell). As a melee weapon, not that useful to be honest - not as useful as the weapon it replaces anyway.
2 - Enforcer - unless there are EClips in the MH map, there will be no ammo to replace that expended.
3 - No weapon - not really an issue?
4 - Crossbow - main issue is ammo falling out the world. Poison does not affect ScriptedPawns. Three arrow types - the ammo cycles - the player has to wait for the most useful explosive arrows to spawn (out of the world!!). TBH only the explosive arrow type is really useful in MH.
5 - UtilityGun - freezer projectiles do not freeze ScriptedPawns (assume fireball ammo does not burn them but have not tried this) - both projectiles do hit damage though. Not as effective as the weapon it replaces as the UG is relatively short range and its projectiles are fired in a parabola.
7 - CAS12 - issue free for MH!!
8 - Proxymines/ProxyBox - Proxies do not hunt ScriptedPawns as they do Players/Bots. Not that useful in MH in any case, given other weapons.
8 - Claw - usually partly buried in the floor. Fires Proxies as first projectile, not useful for MH as the weapon holder needs to cycle to the next projectile, the flakshell. Cycles with the proxybox - means the player has to wait for the useless proxies to cycle to the claw. In some MH maps, have observed that it doesn't cycle properly - Claw just remains there.
0 - Sniper2/RPB - no issues for MH!! Only issue is having four weapons in slot 0, one of which is of very limited use.
0 - Turret Launcher - often partly or wholly buried in the floor. Need flat and relatively open maps to be 'beamed in'. Turrets will not target ScriptedPawns. Not that useful in MH anyway as the maps tend to be linear - the player moves through them, the turrets are static and the action has often soon passed them by. Can be used in certain situations though. Cycles with the VortexArm - again the player has to wait for the weapons to cycle.
0 - VortexArm - sometimes the player can not switch from the VortexArm to another weapon without dropping the VA.

[Slots 6 and 9 are 'default' UT weapons - no problems with these - may actually be Chaos versions?]

A more general issue - ChaosUT's swapping will only work properly with MH v503 and earlier versions(?).

EvilGrins wrote:Problem is CHOAS disables weapon stay. Even if I exit out and reset it, the moment Chaos pops up (even when only using Chaos' mutator) it automatically disables it

That's odd - I haven't found that at all. Weapon stay works fine in MH for me. Have just been playing MH-CMC-PartyCrashers with weapons set to stay.
Last edited by OjitroC on Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
OjitroC
Godlike
 
Posts: 1052
Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2015 8:46 pm

Re: ChaosUT - Why not MH ?

Postby sektor2111 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:00 pm

Thank you, guys. I'll copy things mentioned into a working-list doc for checking and attempting to do some fixes.

Now hints: (contest is not over).
As a matter of fact a map can be done in usual way or... taking in account flaws specific to mod used. How is this ? If you look over my MH maps and you know some default with Bot support and/or with Skaarj you will figure their issues - MH503. In my maps they are reduced to almost NONE problems: Bot is not racing like an ass and Skaarj are able to have weapons - map tweaking.
Now return to Chaos. What are you saying ? Miniammo is replaced ? NO ammo for enforcer ?
Solution is simple as a pie - not sure if you need entire brain for this task. Take a simple solution:
- do paths and items - build Navigation Network (aka A.I. paths);
- now put miniammo around other items - DO NOT REBUILD PATHS AGAIN - just save map - DONE.
I'll bet on 100$ that now you will have miniammo for loading enforcer.
Lil Tech explanations > Chaos replaces items linked in Navigation Network not held items or lost items in combat. If you put these items post pathing, not even Minigun2 will be replaced. Do you want a sample map ? I don't think is needed. When Editor is building paths Will add "MyMarker" for these items and they are going to be replaced. All the time you can save paths and processing cycles by not adding items as first goal - just a few basics. All I have to say is that in a Chaos map you can have both UT_FlakCannon and Claw if you can get how to put them there:
put one Flak and build paths, after build put another Flak around - do nothing else than Saving map. See what you have in game, one Flak is replaced and the other one is not replaced - that simple.

About bWeaponStay - excuse me but I don't see any problem here - not even in MH.

Other MH (504) - it uses Eminigun2 and Chaos is aiming Minigun2 so replacement doesn't take place. Why this way ? They were afraid of a crash - or speed problem ? LOL for them - by using a master wrapper nothing will explode and even "sub-miniguns" are replaced USING "ISA" like EPIC did as SAMPLE. Some coders really cannot deal with replacements and are... many options here.
User avatar
sektor2111
Godlike
 
Posts: 3930
Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 6:15 pm
Location: On the roof.

Re: ChaosUT - Why not MH ?

Postby OjitroC » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:22 pm

I've been through the ChaosUT Issues thread and included everything relevant there in my previous post.

I don't use the Grapple so I don't know if there are issues with this in MH. GavBelt works OK. Relics work OK (though I use Wormbo's EnhancedItems/Relics in any case).

sektor2111 wrote: Chaos replaces items linked in Navigation Network not held items or lost items in combat. If you put these items post pathing, not even Minigun2 will be replaced.

I wondered if that might be the case - have seen that in several 'official' Chaos maps - the result, of course, is a mixture of Chaos and UT weapons, even with Chaos set to replace - which, I assume, was not the original intention with the Mod. Depends, I suppose, on how 'pure' a Chaos experience one wants.
User avatar
OjitroC
Godlike
 
Posts: 1052
Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2015 8:46 pm

Re: ChaosUT - Why not MH ?

Postby sektor2111 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:47 pm

As you can see, there are mappers able to deal with Chaos - Do we have Flak and Miniammo or not ? Of course we can have them - is simple.

Okay. I have dropped an eye on turrets... :nonono:
Meh... not even Botz are a goal for them - it's a shame - this is really against any development. I though it was using a default "seeplayer" but... has a PawnList cycle Excepting every pawn which is not Bot or PlayerPawn. I think with a bit of luck this can be fixed and conformed - else I have to rewrite replacements using other turrets.

Related to blood on sword - eh - only in some MH2 types monsters are bleeding like, for the default MH503 they are dry as a carpet. If walls aren't splashed with blood from monsters why the sword would be painted with blood ? If weapon does damage and no accessed none it is not needed any fix. A wise advice sounds like: Don't fix things which ain't broken.
User avatar
sektor2111
Godlike
 
Posts: 3930
Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 6:15 pm
Location: On the roof.

Re: ChaosUT - Why not MH ?

Postby OjitroC » Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:14 am

EvilGrins wrote: Problem is CHOAS disables weapon stay. Even if I exit out and reset it, the moment Chaos pops up (even when only using Chaos' mutator) it automatically disables it.

Are you sure UT is writing to your MonsterHunt.ini and that the ini is being saved? When you say "Chaos' mutator" you're referring to ChaosUT.ChaosUTMutators?
User avatar
OjitroC
Godlike
 
Posts: 1052
Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2015 8:46 pm

Re: ChaosUT - Why not MH ?

Postby sektor2111 » Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:35 am

MonsterHunt has some problem with that menu, it attempts to take default settings, so do configure DM correctly first and then MH. These are not flaws - I want to see Accessed Nones done by Chaos.
User avatar
sektor2111
Godlike
 
Posts: 3930
Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 6:15 pm
Location: On the roof.

Re: ChaosUT - Why not MH ?

Postby Dr.Flay » Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:03 am

Weapon stay seems to work fine for me using the mutator.

Unfortunately Chaos 1.2 and whatever fixes it contained was abandoned due to most servers never even updated from v1.
Many problems we now see are due to Chaos being released in 1999 and most mods we now use are made long after that.

Some issues are only due to swapping for default items. It would be more reliable to make a full MH-CUT_ map by putting the Chaos items in.
Obviously this limits its use with other weapon mods, but mostly people add non-standard weapons to MH maps anyway, so the average MH map would also have the same limitation.

Mapping issues are minor, it is the targeting and AI that is obviously a key issue.
I suspect the turrets and proxies were coded to be specific to only target an enemy player pawn so they didn't get distracted.
eg. so the turrets do not target proxies.
I am guessing the normal game AI is, Anything that is not the player or on the players team is a target.

The turrets and proxies can be triggered to turn on you. If you shoot your own they try to kill you.
Maybe the ability to get them to change alliance will be a way to get them to include another class as enemy ?
That maybe MrLoathsome territory.
User avatar
Dr.Flay
Site Staff
 
Posts: 3170
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2011 9:26 pm
Location: Kernow, UK
Personal rank: Chaos Evangelist

Re: ChaosUT - Why not MH ?

Postby sektor2111 » Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:41 pm

Okay, let's see things so far. Of course testing these goes to a DM compatible with Monsters and Bots (and different other craps aka pawns).

After destroying a few errors, I got some operational bad ass turret hunting all pawns in NON Team Games and all possible enemy pawns in Team Games. All I need is testing more times, even trying evil habits because this stuff seems to be very damaging to a server if player knows wick points in triggering null bytes (consider them a divide by 0 zero = KO at UE1)... no comment... I just have to see things and to establish some sanity checkers. No offense on purpose for authors but this mod has dumb ideas, respect for design but... hey...
And now, when I'm hunting bots, and by chance I hit my turret I DON'T WANT TO BE KILLED - crap removed - is bigger like a hill and sometimes you can hit this thing without doing this on purpose. I SAY NO - this is bad and doesn't help. Is a bit hard to manage these because I'm using Editor working on package - I don't have source-code and I have to stay with values from package without adds.

Poison thing.
Oh well, it do works for all sort of pawns by removing crap with PlayerPawn/Bot. Seriously I don't get these stupid limits - any pawn can be loaded with an Inventory - the poison actor. And... the sensitive problem, yes it slows down pawn affected by poison but I had to rewrite other sort of formula without adding any new value for giving to the victim original speed back - reverting the math :lol2: , eh, it do works if it's not combined with other speed crappers. I intend to keep package compatible with older v1.1 original one, so no news here - I will do a helper to initialize mod for Z position troubles without causing Chaos to have new dependencies - that's a NO.
At this moment Mod works even in Deck16][ and other maps with no major issues - I have to adjust a bit things on my other mods - that's another story...
User avatar
sektor2111
Godlike
 
Posts: 3930
Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 6:15 pm
Location: On the roof.

Re: ChaosUT - Why not MH ?

Postby EvilGrins » Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:16 am

OjitroC wrote:Turrets will not target ScriptedPawns.

No but they will shoot them. You just need to get the pawn to shoot the turret.

Turrets are ornery things, they will shoot anything that shoots them. I've even had turrets I launched shoot at me if I accidentally shot it.
Attachments
Shot0123.jpg
http://unreal-games.livejournal.com/
Image
medor wrote:Replace Skaarj with EvilGrins :mrgreen:
User avatar
EvilGrins
Godlike
 
Posts: 6175
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 8:12 pm
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Personal rank: God of Fudge

Re: ChaosUT - Why not MH ?

Postby sektor2111 » Fri Oct 06, 2017 6:04 am

No, dudes, this is not the way of doing. Turret in state idle has a tracking rate for pawns, the problem is the cycle code which I loved a bit in this update because it was restrictive making turret to not be interested about ScriptedPawn, Botz, Deco-pawns and whatever. New thing takes in account Pawn generally and here we speak about NOT hidden pawns, pawns with mesh, pawns colliding, I mean relevant pawns not ghosts - yes, it also takes in account team turrets. All I have to say is that now we have a really dangerous thing not a sort of cannon reacting only if get hits by accident - that's not what I want to see. If this turret proves harmful by damaging monsters then, I warmly invite admins to operate their UnrealShare file properly for hosting such "Chaos" - like I said before, this mod has dumb things for that time (not for 2017).
To be honest I'm not surprised to see MH servers running all pawns soup getting stuck and requiring a brute force for restart. For the record, some server rental company was using conditional trackers for destroying server's task when CPU goes to 100% for 10 seconds and they were mentioning this in bold letters if memory doesn't cheat me, because people don't want machines damaged by lousy modding insanity. At a moment I used such "ProcessTracker" as well and I will put it back in case of troubles...
This mod is one of damaging things. Have you seen 20 MH-Chaos servers ? No ? Good... because they are going down at a moment... depending on players. All this hilarious work was credited officially, can you believe ? :shock:

Assuming ProxyMine is now better and poison works properly, slows down everything: Manta flying, Devilfish swimming, Skaarj running around and restores pretty much some original values (here I found an useless double code as well ruining my reversal math so I removed the crap out); I have to move forward on next thing, that freezer or such not freezing ScriptedPawns. I have to see if something is doable and how is configured the code.

I'm gonna reveal stupid secret for any future such modding/coding option:
State whatever with poison activated
Code: Select all
      if ( Pawn(Owner).bCanWalk )
         Pawn(Owner).GroundSpeed=Pawn(Owner).GroundSpeed*0.25;
      if ( Pawn(Owner).bCanSwim )
         Pawn(Owner).WaterSpeed=Pawn(Owner).WaterSpeed*0.25;
      if ( Pawn(Owner).bCanFly )
         Pawn(Owner).AirSpeed=Pawn(Owner).AirSpeed*0.25;
      Pawn(Owner).AccelRate=Pawn(Owner).AccelRate*0.25;

Now let's revert values when poison effect is gone:
Code: Select all
      if ( Pawn(Owner).bCanWalk )
         Pawn(Owner).GroundSpeed=Pawn(Owner).GroundSpeed*4;
      if ( Pawn(Owner).bCanSwim )
         Pawn(Owner).WaterSpeed=Pawn(Owner).WaterSpeed*4;
      if ( Pawn(Owner).bCanFly )
         Pawn(Owner).AirSpeed=Pawn(Owner).AirSpeed*4;
      Pawn(Owner).AccelRate=Pawn(Owner).AccelRate*4;

Now explanations.
Mod is reducing speed values 4 times - and it was reacting only for GroundSpeed :loool: . After expiring activation time, we have to put them back - ALL speeds - more exactly we accelerate them 4 times too, no default speed stupidity because pawns doesn't have default speed all time in games, and this is available for MonsterHunt too which is accelerating monster based on that fake skill (real skill in 0 -Zero- no worries), so monster affected is recovering speed almost perfectly. Using "almost because if we have some speed borks these will affect speed restored to a non "original" value and or potential rounding problems computed by Engine.
And yes, I wrote these being a bit drunk... and using that Calculator from Win-doze so credits for fixes goes to Micro$oft as well... which I forgot to credit in last map which I did and Sam$ung as well - my bad...
User avatar
sektor2111
Godlike
 
Posts: 3930
Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 6:15 pm
Location: On the roof.

Re: ChaosUT - Why not MH ?

Postby OjitroC » Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:12 pm

EvilGrins wrote: No but they will shoot them. You just need to get the pawn to shoot the turret.

Sure, I know - see viewtopic.php?f=7&t=12381&start=60#p100428.

At least with sektor2111's fixed version that will no longer be necessary :tu:
User avatar
OjitroC
Godlike
 
Posts: 1052
Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2015 8:46 pm

Re: ChaosUT - Why not MH ?

Postby sektor2111 » Fri Oct 06, 2017 6:43 pm

Bump.
Work in progress: Freezing chapter
The same dumb thing with PlayerPawn and Bot, properly ruined - for no longer mock MonsterHunt - time to burn out old and obsolete nasty rules.

Default notes: When pawn is getting a hit with "freezer" it goes to falling - not bad for a flying monster to freeze it down, but we do have a problem about this crapped line with no sanity checks. If we have a Bot still in water with head out of water - I think we ruin Bot. Will freeze and... then physics set post freezing are not taking water in account - not to mention NONE options for monsters, lol.

Extra checks and works:
Pawn will get a call to SetMovementPhysics because... that does the right thing not walking, not every pawn can walk post freezing and water is not for walking :loool: , in water WE SWIM so by doing this reset Pawn is getting the right physics rule as in case of initialization process - I see no flaws there so I call that code.
Pawns getting hits from such projectiles will Fall if are flying or can Walk or are NOT in a water zone - these should be suffice for not doing funky things with Engine's physics (considered flawed - no more flawed that coders's heads not taking factors in account - I might be one of them but I will see that...). If pawn falls, it should be able to walk, if it's in water no walking is accepted or falling - Tentacles will just freeze with no borks because can't walk - presuming EPIC are respecting their own rules (not entirely - must be tested), exist a bit of time when tentacles can walk (a la Factory code) and we might hope to not get that bit of time for getting a hit - this is sensitive but it might go flawless... Creatures flying will land immediately as they might do when their enemy is dead - should not be problems here.

Testing environment: Some map with decorations dropping random monsters for figuring different types and map loaded with testing stuff - A hanging Tentacle completes the stage.

Conclusions so far:
These "smarty" weapons seems to not be that friendly with weapon-holder monsters but they might be doing something - I will see these later - some of them are not compatible that much with A.I. due to their purpose - maxturrets, etc. Replacements are going for map's items not held items - if mappers are doing craps is entirely their problem.

The Stupid Mixer:
Poisoning and freezing won't work nice together because of their featured speed factors messing each-other, yeah, crapped default bug as codes are speaking. Pawn frozen won't be poisoned, pawn poisoned won't freeze - DONE.
I'm assuming that after passing Freezing but still being under Poison (they have different timers), Pawn can suddenly get a "default.groundspeed" which probably has not logic in case of poison effect. Right ? Good... So, mixing these to mess them up won't be any longer an option...

Okay, I go to check list with MH issues...
Last edited by sektor2111 on Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
sektor2111
Godlike
 
Posts: 3930
Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 6:15 pm
Location: On the roof.

Next

Return to Modifications

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest