ChaosUT - MH adds - Generation 3

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Re: ChaosUT - Why not MH ?

Postby EvilGrins » Fri Oct 06, 2017 6:58 pm

Terraniux's recently making an MH chaos map has me suddenly thinking of editing Skaarj on a map with poisoned arrows as their projectile.
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Re: ChaosUT - Why not MH ?

Postby sektor2111 » Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:08 pm

Projectiles used are not that harmful but "Turretlauncher" works under mod's rules so Skaarj firing that is caped being like an ass. Chaos configuration is under admin control not Skaarj's control. The same for Vortex which might do sucks if rules are erased.
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Re: ChaosUT - Why not MH ?

Postby OjitroC » Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:32 pm

@EvilGrins - in that screenshot you posted earlier there are two vortices active - how did you manage that?
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Re: ChaosUT - Why not MH ?

Postby sektor2111 » Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:41 pm

SUMMON ?
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Re: ChaosUT - Why not MH ?

Postby EvilGrins » Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:49 pm

OjitroC wrote:@EvilGrins - in that screenshot you posted earlier there are two vortices active - how did you manage that?

I was playing with 8 bots, and I think something in MH neutralizes the vortex limitation.
sektor2111 wrote:Projectiles used are not that harmful

Skaarj firing poisoned arrows would keep shooting them until they were close enough to kill you... and poisoned you can't really defend yourself or run away.
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Re: ChaosUT - Why not MH ?

Postby OjitroC » Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:48 pm

EvilGrins wrote: I was playing with 8 bots, and I think something in MH neutralizes the vortex limitation.

I hadn't noticed that, I must admit - perhaps it is something else sektor2111 should take a look at?

So, do the bots fire a lot of vortices?
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Re: ChaosUT - Why not MH ?

Postby sektor2111 » Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:56 pm

Will drop an eye there after figuring how much cheating is with default Grapple :| .
Actually I can take a sh!t on pupaes regarding to their strength when I have that option... This thing just ruins the charm of MonsterHunt...
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Re: ChaosUT - Why not MH ?

Postby Barbie » Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:17 pm

EvilGrins wrote:I think something in MH neutralizes the vortex limitation
It is not done by MH but by ChaosUT itself - see function Fire() there:
Code: Select all
ForEach AllActors(Class'Vortex' , V)
{
   if (v != none && !Pawn(Owner).IsA('BOT'))
   {
   Pawn(Owner).ClientMessage("Saftey feature enaged, can not fire as there is already an active Vortex");
   return;
   }
}
That code looks if there is already a Vortex and if so, the current Vertex' owner is checked if it is a Bot. If not, firing is denied and the owner gets a message about that. If the owner is a bot, firing is not aborted.

I think the code was meant to deny multiple Vortices in general and only give a message, if the owner is a player:
Code: Select all
ForEach AllActors(Class'Vortex' , V)
{
   if (PlayerPawn(Owner) != None)
      PlayerPawn(Owner).ClientMessage("Saftey feature enaged, can not fire as there is already an active Vortex");
   return;
}
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Re: ChaosUT - Why not MH ?

Postby OjitroC » Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:19 pm

Barbie wrote:That code looks if there is already a Vortex and if so, the current Vertex' owner is checked if it is a Bot. If not, firing is denied and the owner gets a message about that. If the owner is a bot, firing is not aborted.

Should be the other way around? Though I wonder if it is wise to 'allow' Bots to fire a vortex or, indeed, launch a turret in MH in any case as the result could be chaos.
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Re: ChaosUT - Why not MH ?

Postby sektor2111 » Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:40 pm

By firing multiple vortex types at time each of them are attempting to pull pawns, result might be NONE of them damaging because they break pawns each of them on its own and then what are for ?
Is not chaos is NON-logic. I'm not sure if these vortex are taking turrets in account to not mess them up, I'll walk through these classes later... I believe I will need to setup some test maps with items in order to quickly figure major problems... As I could see Vortexes can be dropped not that far, you need to retreat quickly behind a wall, I'll bet the bot code for this task doesn't exist, and then is not doable and keeping compatibility in the same time - only by sloping to another package in replacements - helper mutator on purpose.

Edit: Vortex thing.
So far I have to check this:
Code: Select all
   ForEach AllActors(Class'Vortex', V)
   {
      if ( Owner.IsA('PlayerPawn'))
         Pawn(Owner).ClientMessage("Safety feature engaged, cannot fire as there is already an active Vortex.");
      return; //Higor ?
   }
Yeah, even borked message it's fixed - speaking about LANGUAGES. I warmly invite you to suggest a better spelling - but not like that "lifes" thing as long as LastManStanding says "LIVES".
I have to see if return breaks both iterator and function or only iterator. If it breaks only iterator then fire will still be possible and it will work as usual.
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Re: ChaosUT - Why not MH ?

Postby EvilGrins » Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:55 am

OjitroC wrote:So, do the bots fire a lot of vortices?

They'd probably fire more if it wasn't for the fact they don't get thrown far and usually by the time a 2nd one activates, most every bot (and sadly me) nearby gets torn to shreds by them.
OjitroC wrote:Though I wonder if it is wise to 'allow' Bots to fire a vortex or, indeed, launch a turret in MH in any case as the result could be chaos.

Nice pun.

It's worse with NW3's cybots. A bot gets hold of a cybot launcher and there's soon a stampede of those little things all over the place. Not an issue with Chaos.
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Re: ChaosUT - Why not MH ?

Postby OjitroC » Sat Oct 07, 2017 11:27 am

EvilGrins wrote: They'd probably fire more if it wasn't for the fact they don't get thrown far and usually by the time a 2nd one activates, most every bot (and sadly me) nearby gets torn to shreds by them.

That's why I think it is important that there can only be one vortex active in a map at any one time AND that Bots can't use them (because they won't be able to decide when it is appropriate to use them and when it is not).
EvilGrins wrote: It's worse with NW3's cybots. A bot gets hold of a cybot launcher and there's soon a stampede of those little things all over the place. Not an issue with Chaos.

Same with NW3's Miner in my experience - the Bots spam mines everywhere.
sektor2111 wrote: Yeah, even borked message it's fixed - speaking about LANGUAGES. I warmly invite you to suggest a better spelling - but not like that "lifes" thing as long as LastManStanding says "LIVES".

Not sure which spelling you are referring to there.

Is it possible to reduce the attractiveness/priority of proxymines to Bots? Reason - even if the proxymines do hunt ScriptedPawns, the Bots are likely to spam them all over the place, even in situations where they are not the most effective weapon.
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Re: ChaosUT - Why not MH ?

Postby Terraniux » Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:35 pm

From all GameTypes that work well with ChaosUT -- I picked MH :what: Hope people don't make too much arguments on my map for the issues that come with my map.
The more replies the ChaosUT and this topic gets --- makes me more and more nervous..... :sad2:
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Re: ChaosUT - Why not MH ?

Postby OjitroC » Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:47 pm

Terraniux wrote: The more replies the ChaosUT and this topic gets --- makes me more and more nervous..... :sad2:

No, no need to worry - the issues are to do with ChaosUT and not your map - I've played it loads of times and it is great fun. Your map will be judged as a MH map and not on the basis of how ChaosUT currently performs in MH.

People who are aware of the issues that Chaos has with MH can choose what weapons to pick up and use. Eventually sektor2111's work will address the issues anyway.

You may want to look at sektor2111's solution for ensuring that there is ammo for the Enforcer at the start though - unless you do not think this is important in the context of the map and the game-play.
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Re: ChaosUT - Why not MH ?

Postby papercoffee » Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:19 pm

EvilGrins wrote:[
It's worse with NW3's cybots. A bot gets hold of a cybot launcher and there's soon a stampede of those little things all over the place. Not an issue with Chaos.

Tried the cybot arena once ... :ironic2: bots are really moronic.
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