2D UTDemo Mod

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Blackcheetah
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2D UTDemo Mod

Post by Blackcheetah »

Hi, I am making a 2D game using UTdemo Here are some screenshots,
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robin13
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Re: 2D UTDemo Mod

Post by robin13 »

heeeeeeeeey,blast from the past. (i saw u a few weeks ago in Killing floor the mod,i was Zombie xD)
funny 2D game,a bit low detailed but im sure you will fix that.
now tell me,you told me that u could finish ur ut2004 extreme mod in a wip (u told me so on MiasMa KF server XD)
about ur 2D game,uhhm little question,what has this to do with ut99 XD,and that soldier looks like a
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Re: 2D UTDemo Mod

Post by Blackcheetah »

This isnt the 2D engine I was making, I just one day thought hmmm what If I could make a 2D game in a 3D engine, and so I made a 2D plane Mesh, to put sprites on.

The screenshots are for a zombie game I am making in UTdemo, since utdemo is ut99, I come here. I already made two weapons, M32Grenade Launcher and a minigun, and have made 3 zombie sprites which are in the screenshot.

The BackGround is somehow blurred in direct3d but in software its not so I work in SoftWare.

I have been interested in 2D Graphics because 3D graphics has gotten to its limit and I want to do something the majority isnt doing. While other people are making mods for a 3D game, I want to totally make the 3D Unnoticeable. The screenshots you see are UT, 100 percent Unreal Engine in the map DM-Morpheus.
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Feralidragon
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Re: 2D UTDemo Mod

Post by Feralidragon »

Hmmm. I have seen some 2D projects for UT, but they still used the 3D engine and its features: SP2D, UT played from top view, etc. Those are actually interesting projects and they validate the use of a 3D engine though, has they have depth (be in the Y axis or Z axis) and make use of 3D stuff such as weapons, effects, etc.

What you're attempting to do is not that smart, AT ALL imo. You're using a 3D engine to do pure 2D stuff without any depth at all, without any 3D features at all, and you still have to load a 3D map, all the 3D features and process them all, even if you don't want to. It's like make an entire 100 floors building just to use an office :ironic:

Here's an advice: if you want to do pure 2D stuff, DON'T use the UT engine, use Flash instead. That way everyone will be able to play it even from a webbrowser, you can add a lot of new effects (glows, blurs, etc), expand the coding a lot (physics engines, particle engines, etc), and everything the game will use is effectivelly to make your game possible, to not say that you will be able to do a lot more in Flash than in UT anyway.
Plus, ActionScript 3.0 is a true programming language nowadays, unlike ActionScript 2.0, "Script" languages are very similar between them (ActionScript, JavaScript, even UnrealScript), so it's really easy to understand it and to stuff on it.

I can tell it, since I did a game on Flash once, and I didn't need more than 2 weeks to do the game, understand fully a physics engine made for it (to the point of add features and fixing it myself) and the language limits and features.
It's really easy to do stuff there now.

So really, pure 2D (no depth) in UT: wrong (to much extra processing for something of that kind, and only UT players would be able to play it anyway).
2D in Flash: correct (all you need to play is a webbrowser, and flash installed in your PC, and the language is very very similar to UScript).

Think about that.
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robin13
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Re: 2D UTDemo Mod

Post by robin13 »

it looks all drawed si i suggest to (like ferali) use flash,you dont need the ut engine for that. +plus you could go for something with cell shaded 2D zombies. and ut doesnt have cell shading.
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Blackcheetah
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Re: 2D UTDemo Mod

Post by Blackcheetah »

robin13 wrote:it looks all drawed si i suggest to (like ferali) use flash,you dont need the ut engine for that. +plus you could go for something with cell shaded 2D zombies. and ut doesnt have cell shading.
I am using depth.

The camera can either move back or move forward and I could use that for a zoom type move. I don't use flash because I rather not download another program when I can simply just use the game I've played for years and modded as my base.
2D Renderers run very slow, and the biggest solution that people come up with if you have learned 2D program is use 3D with no depth.

3D Rendering is support by graphics cards, and graphics cards are made just for rendering, while Flash is mostly CPU processed (Vector Graphics have to be read by cpu then graphics card can render what the cpu has outputted).

Whats wrong with me making a 2D engine in a 3D engine? after all its still all 2D since its all just pixels.

I understand what you all are saying but is Flash 2D? Does it already made multiplayer support? Think paper Mario people. I didn't come here to get suggestions, I came here to show what I done and let others see, its not fair that you are suggestion something to me that any person using the internet would know of.

Please just look at the mod and not engine alternatives.

Edit: Whats wrong with my drawing? :P
Here's an advice: if you want to do pure 2D stuff, DON'T use the UT engine, use Flash instead. That way everyone will be able to play it even from a webbrowser, you can add a lot of new effects (glows, blurs, etc), expand the coding a lot (physics engines, particle engines, etc), and everything the game will use is effectivelly to make your game possible, to not say that you will be able to do a lot more in Flash than in UT anyway.
Plus, ActionScript 3.0 is a true programming language nowadays, unlike ActionScript 2.0, "Script" languages are very similar between them (ActionScript, JavaScript, even UnrealScript), so it's really easy to understand it and to stuff on it.
You saying that just a 2Days of work, will have to go on for weeks because Flash could be better? All I did was make a mesh and put sprites on it that I drew yesterday. I couldn't seriously want to learn all that you told me when I am able to get my results already.
Thank You for your suggestion but I love Unreal Engine 1 for everything.
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robin13
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Re: 2D UTDemo Mod

Post by robin13 »

well,yea okey ur right. i have never actualy made a good map or 2/3D game so i shoudlnt judge about other people's work
about ur drawings,ehh it looks more like a funny 2D game then a scary 2D zombie game TBH.
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Blackcheetah
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Re: 2D UTDemo Mod

Post by Blackcheetah »

robin13 wrote:well,yea okey ur right. i have never actualy made a good map or 2/3D game so i shoudlnt judge about other people's work
about ur drawings,ehh it looks more like a funny 2D game then a scary 2D zombie game TBH.
You can judge if you want, just don't follow the "big boys" they just want your votes :P
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Feralidragon
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Re: 2D UTDemo Mod

Post by Feralidragon »

Well, I won't argue with you, since you clearlly don't know what you're talking about, at all, nor want to hear. Yet:

To start with, ActionScript 3.0 is faster for what you want to do, rather than UnrealScript. Try to render thousands of particles in UT and the same amount on Flash using AS3, and you will see that UT gets a lot of lag when achieved a certain amount of particles while flash renders them all with no problems at all.

UT and Flash are both CPU intensive, meaning that the GPU hardly gets any job to be done.

3D is different from 2D, in every way you look at it, from rendering, to physics, to hardware requirements, in resume: mathematics and matrixes, which 3D is a lot more complex and needs extra processing, while 2D is basically a child when compared to it. The pixels are just to show the current human acceptable and understandable image of what's really happenning underneith, so saying 3D is 2D because of the shown pixels, well... I believe in Santa too. :ironic:

Depth is not "zoom". Depth is one thing, zoom is another. Zoom is just look at things closer or far away, while an example of depth: when you see the game from top (for example), you can actually physically climb or fall, and the map layout being built like that, and have true z axis there, although you only see the game always from top.

Flash itself is all about vector images, visual effects and motion/animation. ActionScript on another hand is what makes the whole magic on a game or even some movies or even applications.
And yes, Flash can have: multiplayer support, engines of all sorts (particles, physics, graphical, etc), and everything you may think off.
Plus, in case you didn't read, I didn't need lots of weeks to learn it. Anyone that knows UScript well, will understand easilly ActionScript, since it's almost the same thing, with just some differences and concepts. And, you're saying that now, but you were the one you said a long time ago that you went to learn native coding and that you would do lots of things... and native coding takes months to get hold off, specially since the language used is very different from UScript.
Say instead "I'm lazy and I don't want to hear nor learn anymore".

But well, you don't want sugestions nor constructive criticism nor advices, that's not a problem, just don't wonder why your mods get the same destiny all the time. :noidea

Good luck

@ robin13: For some reason games are "judged" by actual players to define their success and not developers. A player can and should always judge any work from the gameplay point of view, and even graphics, as a player is who defines the success of everything. Without players, making games or mods for them doesn't make any sense at all.
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Re: 2D UTDemo Mod

Post by Blackcheetah »

Feralidragon wrote:Well, I won't argue with you, since you clearlly don't know what you're talking about, at all, nor want to hear. Yet:

To start with, ActionScript 3.0 is faster for what you want to do, rather than UnrealScript. Try to render thousands of particles in UT and the same amount on Flash using AS3, and you will see that UT gets a lot of lag when achieved a certain amount of particles while flash renders them all with no problems at all.

UT and Flash are both CPU intensive, meaning that the GPU hardly gets any job to be done.

3D is different from 2D, in every way you look at it, from rendering, to physics, to hardware requirements, in resume: mathematics and matrixes, which 3D is a lot more complex and needs extra processing, while 2D is basically a child when compared to it. The pixels are just to show the current human acceptable and understandable image of what's really happenning underneith, so saying 3D is 2D because of the shown pixels, well... I believe in Santa too. :ironic:

Depth is not "zoom". Depth is one thing, zoom is another. Zoom is just look at things closer or far away, while an example of depth: when you see the game from top (for example), you can actually physically climb or fall, and the map layout being built like that, and have true z axis there, although you only see the game always from top.

Flash itself is all about vector images, visual effects and motion/animation. ActionScript on another hand is what makes the whole magic on a game or even some movies or even applications.
And yes, Flash can have: multiplayer support, engines of all sorts (particles, physics, graphical, etc), and everything you may think off.
Plus, in case you didn't read, I didn't need lots of weeks to learn it. Anyone that knows UScript well, will understand easilly ActionScript, since it's almost the same thing, with just some differences and concepts. And, you're saying that now, but you were the one you said a long time ago that you went to learn native coding and that you would do lots of things... and native coding takes months to get hold off, specially since the language used is very different from UScript.
Say instead "I'm lazy and I don't want to hear nor learn anymore".

But well, you don't want sugestions nor constructive criticism nor advices, that's not a problem, just don't wonder why your mods get the same destiny all the time. :noidea

Good luck

@ robin13: For some reason games are "judged" by actual players to define their success and not developers. A player can and should always judge any work from the gameplay point of view, and even graphics, as a player is who defines the success of everything. Without players, making games or mods for them doesn't make any sense at all.
I like suggestions and criticism but some things don't even need to be mentioned. I just don't know why you are suggesting Flash when I am 90 percent to know what flash and if I am doing 2D stuff it would go up to 100 percent that I know what flash is.
You thinking that I don't know of Flash or 3D, I know alot about 3D and 2D I've made a software 3D engine using GDI, a 2D drawing api. I even have a screenshot of the 3D engine I made from scratch.

This is serious why are you going through all this trouble to tell me what Flash is and does, its absurd, I was just showing something, I didn't even mention what I was doing in first post. I am doing this in UTdemo that tells you its on something not important therefore it must be a project that isnt important, nor is there a goal behind it other than fun between friends or alone.

I feel as though you want to belitte me rather help me, because I don't find any help in your suggestion, You didn't ask me why it is in a 3D engine? You just tell me to use Flash and what is in Flash and what it's script is like... I can make my own vector graphics engine if I wanted to, you do not sound smart telling me that I could use the following program without even understanding my motives. I am not angry.

I need no help, I don't want any suggestion on this, its only in modification forum because it is a modification of UT, I just wanted to share what I was doing, not to receive ideas and criticisms for something that no one has even tried yet. I could be planning to put 3D effects with the camera but no one even asks why you using UT.

If you think you are very smart because you made a bunch of stuff in your lifetime and think you entitled to say whatever you want then go right ahead, but if it is just a innocent suggestion. I suggest not throw it at a person as if you own the program or whatever yourself. It doesn't feel good to people if someone drew with a pencil and you tell them they should redraw it with a pen, after all that work they done. I am not angry.

Sorry.




"Flash itself is all about vector images, visual effects and motion/animation. ActionScript on another hand is what makes the whole magic on a game or even some movies or even applications.
And yes, Flash can have: multiplayer support, engines of all sorts (particles, physics, graphical, etc), and everything you may think off.
Plus, in case you didn't read, I didn't need lots of weeks to learn it. Anyone that knows UScript well, will understand easilly ActionScript, since it's almost the same thing, with just some differences and concepts."

I know all this.

"And, you're saying that now, but you were the one you said a long time ago that you went to learn native coding and that you would do lots of things... and native coding takes months to get hold off, specially since the language used is very different from UScript.
Say instead "I'm lazy and I don't want to hear nor learn anymore"."

I know native coding as long as I been modding, don't know why you think this.

"3D is different from 2D, in every way you look at it, from rendering, to physics, to hardware requirements, in resume: mathematics and matrixes, which 3D is a lot more complex and needs extra processing, while 2D is basically a child when compared to it. The pixels are just to show the current human acceptable and understandable image of what's really happenning underneith, so saying 3D is 2D because of the shown pixels, well... I believe in Santa too. :ironic: "

From what I have read from making a 3D software engine, 3D is not hard at all, I had more problems with 2D than 3D.
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robin13
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Re: 2D UTDemo Mod

Post by robin13 »

lady's lady's calm down lol :what:
many people have many different ideas on how to do something.
Blackcheetah: you have already proven you can do a lot of things (ut mods,Killing floor mods,etc) so i cant wait to see this project finished.
P.S.: if you both want to Argue about a 2D 3D Flash Ut Engine,then pls use steam or msn or any chatbox,keep this forum clean of that *bad* stuff and let blackcheeta show off his progress.
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Re: 2D UTDemo Mod

Post by Feralidragon »

Do as you wish, it's your mod afterall.

Btw, 3D is more complex than 2D: in 2D you have 2 axis and 1 rotation angle, in 3D you have 3 axis, and depending on the rotation system used you can have either 3 or 4 components (3 angles, or a directional vector and its roll).
Regarding physics, 2D is really easy, in 3D is gets more complicated, specially regarding collisions and many physics rules and exceptions that 2D simply doesn't have. For instance, the actual rotation of any 3D object is stored in a matrix (the most raw simple one a 3x3), while a 2D object is just a single number (be in radians, degrees, gradians, whatever).
3D is not only Z-Index and perspective. I also read by myself, and have actual books explaining it all, and they show the 2D aproach and the 3D aproach, and 3D always wins in complexity, always. :thuup:

Either ways, you're right, you are free to do anything you like, I would just like if you stopped contradicting yourself on what you say in each post, but whatever.

Again, good luck :thuup:
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Re: 2D UTDemo Mod

Post by Blackcheetah »

3D always wins in complexity, always.
3D is just maths. 2D is the output of all that math. Therefore 2D is king.
Feralidragon wrote:I would just like if you stopped contradicting yourself

Ferali dragon I think I love you.















I hate you Feralidragon for your good looks.

Screenshot down here, Just to state what I know about 3D and 2D.

Its a screenshot of my 3D GDi Engine, GDI is what Microsoft paint uses. The terrain is ONS-Torlan's terrain in UT2004.
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Feralidragon
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Re: 2D UTDemo Mod

Post by Feralidragon »

You don't have to prove me anything. Like I said, you contradict yourself in the previous posts, but it was never regarding your ability to render a scenery. Once you get your homework regarding 3D "rendering" done, it's obvious anyone can render a 3D object. After all, the screen is your canvas, and you just have to "paint" it regarding your camera angle, the objects z-index and fov. It's all math.
But the problem is really the math, and was always been the math itself, in the difference of complexity between 2D and 3D.
And in 2D, you have only 2 axis, the same axis from your screen, and the only z-index you have is the order of objects to paint (and if done right, there are objects you do not even "try" to render).
It's really simple (I also rendered stuff, specially for a physics engine, although not in VS, but in AS).
In 3D, you have 3 axis, and your z-index is totally a different thing from the order itself: newer objects will be rendered last, but even so you have to consider exactly which object is near or far from your cam, your fov, etc. So rendering 3D objects, is way more complex, but again, it's only math to know which lines you have to draw, which polys you have to paint and from which color, etc.
Once you achieve the proper math to know what to draw first, and how to draw it, it's just a matter of making it look better, worse, etc.
From what I see you didn't even apllied lighting to your 3D engine, which is your big step afterwards.

Either ways, it looks like a good job has been done in that rendering, but again, 2D is simple compared with 3D, in 2D you don't have the math, even for rendering, that 3D must have. So saying that 3D is more simple than 2D... if that was the case, you wouldn't have massive GPUs for 3D rendering, but for 2D rendering (because GPU is a processor, it moves stuff around, calculates stuff, etc, so... the problem is the massive math it has to do). Again, what you did there, is what hardware is already capable to do: read the 3D matrixes and other variables such as fov, and calculate how it must draw.
2D in another hand, is basically what paint makes already (read images or paint in realtime) exactly where their coordinates point at without almost any math at all.

So although you seem to have learned a lot, you have your concepts a bit twisted.


But now, let's just end this talk, becauce this won't lead anywhere and is starting to be off-topic already. Like I said already, for the 3rd time: it's your mod, do whatever you want, I don't care anymore. I have more stuff to worry about than this, my mistake giving you the benefit of the doubt.

Again, good luck :thuup:
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Re: 2D UTDemo Mod

Post by Myth »

@Blackcheetah: there are too many contradictions in your statements to make me believe that you built yourself a 3d engine from scratch. Obviously you received some help or someone told you how to make that 3d engine cause you don't seem to know much shit.

But there is nothing more awesome to make a 2d game in a 3d bsp engine. If you put a bit more effort in it, make the gameplay awesome and add some gfx that doesn't look like mspaint in the hands of a 5 year old then this will be a game that everyone will remember.

After this how about making a 3d game in a 2d engine?
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