Food Fight - the reload - Yay or Nay

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destroys the reload animation of a the FF Weapons the game flow?

it's a party pooper and destroys the game flow
4
29%
it adds a thrill and balance the game
7
50%
neither of them (please explain)
3
21%
 
Total votes: 14

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Food Fight - the reload - Yay or Nay

Post by papercoffee »

We have a question to you all ...how do you thing about the reload function??
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Re: Food Fight - the reload - Yay or Nay

Post by Dr.Flay »

Not having played FF yet, this is based on my general opinion.
"Unreal" Tournament was always about fun and the thrill of the kill, rather than the realism.

There are plenty of mods where reloading adds to the tension of the game, but that tends to be SP or horror mods.

I think if reloading was quicker than changing ammo, or you couldn't change ammo till you reload, then that may add to the experience.
eg. making a damn good reason why you have to reload, other than the obvious.
Could the act of reloading do something to or for the player?
Could a weapon fire at it's fastest rate, when freshly loaded?

Last man standing and Assault, are the only normal UT gametypes I think it fit reloading.

*EDIT*
I went for choice 3
Last edited by Dr.Flay on Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Food Fight - the reload - Yay or Nay

Post by papercoffee »

There are two people who voted for option 3 ...so please explain what you mean.
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Re: Food Fight - the reload - Yay or Nay

Post by UnrealGGecko »

I voted for option 1 (even though I haven't played FF yet) because due to reloads, you need to find cover. That would make UT more like other games. For powerfull weapons I think reloads might be okay, but mostly for UT... Reloads is a no no.
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Re: Food Fight - the reload - Yay or Nay

Post by GenMoKai »

I would first say... try before you answer
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Re: Food Fight - the reload - Yay or Nay

Post by Feralidragon »

I think the reload is cool. Yeah, in UT players are not used to reload, but me being a player in other nice FPS, I must say the reload adds more thrill and more options to attack your enemy.
Perhaps the thing to do here is, when you're short on ammo, add a small fading in/out message to reload (it works with CoD for instance, although I only played it once in a free weekend, this message was often useful to not loose track on how much ammo I had left before reload).

Plus, this is a new mod, new weapon pack, new concepts, so it is different anyway, you can look at other mods and notice there's no reload, so what? The word "new" implies something different anyway.

I am playing Blacklight Retribution now, and you have to reload, yet when players reload they do seek cover, but when faced with the enemy they immediately change to another alternate weapon (a pistol, knife, grenade, or other), so you can always add the option to allow weapon change on mid reload, and once you change to this weapon again, do the reload animation again (to not exploit this), and you still can kill in that time until you're safe enough to do the full reload. I sure you this kind of thing works.

Also I must point out that UT has not a perfect gameplay (if it had it would be full of players, which is not true, sadly), it has *severe* gameplay problems that make people leave the game: camping, laming, spawnkilling, spamming, etc. With reload you avoid some spam and laming, and give an opportunity to non-campers to kill or/and escape the campers and spawnkilliers while they reload.

It's a new weapon pack, so it's just different, so look very well into what you're doing otherwise you will end up with a mod that will just "blend" with all the other UT mods made to this date.
If it breaks gameplay, add more rounds, shorten the reload time, add awareness of the next reload, that sort of thing. Look into other games out there and not just into UT (and most of these UT players also play other FPS games, mind you).

Anyway, just my 2 cents
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Re: Food Fight - the reload - Yay or Nay

Post by GenMoKai »

Feralidragon wrote:I think the reload is cool. Yeah, in UT players are not used to reload, but me being a player in other nice FPS, I must say the reload adds more thrill and more options to attack your enemy.
Perhaps the thing to do here is, when you're short on ammo, add a small fading in/out message to reload (ect... ect... ect...)
Ferali has spoken! :rock: Couldnt agree more
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Re: Food Fight - the reload - Yay or Nay

Post by JackGriffin »

Coding the reloading functions properly has been a huge challenge for me and I think I've learned more doing this mod than any single other thing. I've quite enjoyed it up till now. The problem though is I think I'm about to 'Survival' myself again by concentrating on the game and not the gameplay. It will all work like it's supposed to, but is it fun? I'm starting to think 'cumbersome' is more in line with a proper description.

I love the reload animations. Gen has done outstanding work and the mod looks really nice because of it. It's funny, cool, and fresh all at the same time. However I think that overall it's making the 'fun' of the mod lessen because you are constantly having to find a place to hide to run through your reloads. I recognize Ferali's comments and mostly I 100% agree with him, however I would point you towards the most enduring and popular gametypes of the last five years. What do people like to play when the theory is out of the way and they have to choose a server? Seige, IG, and MH. I know nothing about Seige (never played it once) but IG and MH are solely focused on speed killing with minimum interruption. It's what people want to play. Now they may *like* something, I mean who doesn't like original Unreal and visiting NaPali? I'll ask you though, when is the last time you did fire up an SP game? You know why you don't? Because it's too slow and <heresy warning> boring.

I guess the choice is somewhat A) make the game you want to make regardless, or B) make the game the people will play and use and borrow the weapons into other games/maps/etc. and the mod grows that way.

Bottom line? I can link you 25 individual posts on How To Speed Up a Weapon's Fire Rate but I found one single thread on How To Add Reload To Weapons. I think that's a pretty clear description of what the people want to play. BTW there is a current thread at BU: http://forums.beyondunreal.com/showthread.php?t=151942 and a poster there sums it up perfectly (he made a reload mod for UT):
porkmanii wrote:True enough. I quite likely had more fun making it than playing it :).
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Re: Food Fight - the reload - Yay or Nay

Post by Feralidragon »

JackGriffin wrote:I'll ask you though, when is the last time you did fire up an SP game? You know why you don't? Because it's too slow and <heresy warning> boring.
Yesterday. :tongue:
You cannot possibly compare single player with multi player, they're 2 completely different realms.
JackGriffin wrote: I guess the choice is somewhat A) make the game you want to make regardless, or B) make the game the people will play and use and borrow the weapons into other games/maps/etc. and the mod grows that way.
Here's one thing I learned when I expanded a bit more my horizons on games a few months ago: you don't know, period. Neither me, you, paper, the entire community, no one knows what players want to play, regardless of what anyone may say. Players themselves don't know what they want to play.
It's like food, you know they want chicken, but one day you make something different, unheard off, and better than chicken, and they love it, and now they don't want chicken anymore since it's so dull in comparison, see where I am getting to?
Everything just resumes to what works and what doesn't, and when you make something different, you don't know until you try it on a big wide scale.
Yeah, hardcore UT players will "bleh" with the reload, but if you're seriously thinking in that kind of players as your mod target, forget any possible popularity for this mod.

Again, I bring up the blacklight retribution game: it has reload, long and short ones depending on the weapons, and it's far from being slow (if you're not careful you can be killed in mere seconds after you spawn). So saying that reload makes the game slow, I seriously do not agree with that statement and it's already proved by many games that's not necessarily true, it makes the game less spammy and less "spray and pray" though, which is actually a good thing.

It all goes on actual technical execution and gameplay decisions: make it faster or slower? More or less rounds? More or less damage? Add more or less awareness? Add more gameplay elements? And so on...
JackGriffin wrote: Bottom line? I can link you 25 individual posts on How To Speed Up a Weapon's Fire Rate but I found one single thread on How To Add Reload To Weapons. I think that's a pretty clear description of what the people want to play. BTW there is a current thread at BU: http://forums.beyondunreal.com/showthread.php?t=151942 and a poster there sums it up perfectly (he made a reload mod for UT):
porkmanii wrote:True enough. I quite likely had more fun making it than playing it :).
Again, you make it like "what people want to play", and you get a mod that no one will remember within months since it will be just another weapons mod with nothing more than a concept to offer. Don't avoid things, learn with them instead and try new approaches. Make something different. So many successful entire games which the secret is exactly failed concepts made in another way which actually worked (for how many years zombie games exist? since when they became highly popular? think about that).
I still remember Siege being an empty gametype when it was first introduced (too complicated players said), look at it now. See?

Don't follow the herd, walk ahead of it.

Again, just my opinion on things

PS.: Before I also would have the same opinion as you, but everything changed when I actually got a new machine to play newer popular games, and that's when I realized thinking on "what players want" does not necessarily work, on the other hand making something different may be a huge failure or a huge success, but you have to risk it.
Personally, I had fun with the mod as it is, thus defending the reload.
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Re: Food Fight - the reload - Yay or Nay

Post by JackGriffin »

I'm not going to respond here Ferali because I think paper meant this more as a State Your Opinion thread than a Debate one. May we continue this in another thread? I'd really like to reply to this (you know me :pfff: ) I think if we begin a spirited debate about the pros and cons then it will discourage those still unposted from adding their thoughts. I'm very interested in what people will have to say because this is something I've thought about for a long time.
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Re: Food Fight - the reload - Yay or Nay

Post by papercoffee »

Well, only a handful of people voted ...



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Re: Food Fight - the reload - Yay or Nay

Post by Metalfist »

Personally I don't really mind if there is a reload or not. Only thing is that reload is more realistic, but with UT you don't have to go realistic obv. And besides if you already have the code, it's a pity to just throw it into the trashcan.
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Re: Food Fight - the reload - Yay or Nay

Post by Dr.Flay »

Sorry, I edited my fist post. I was one of "them" :lol:

I will re-state my last suggestion though.
It would be good to progress or change the point of reloading, from what we all expect.
Food fight is new and different, so why not the reload system?

I think most food containers will spray you with more food faster, when they are full (and when you are drunk!).
Reloading could give you a faster rate or more powerful shot, if your weapon is bursting with food. When it empties it gets slower (like when a gun overheats).

Very small and simple change, but would make you think about when to reload.

BTW. does this mod have exploding ammo-packs? or could the old mutator be remade to work with it?
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Re: Food Fight - the reload - Yay or Nay

Post by JackGriffin »

I loved that mod, total carnage in some maps.
So long, and thanks for all the fish
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Re: Food Fight - the reload - Yay or Nay

Post by JimmyJ »

It's fine by me. Reloading isn't in vanilla UT but that doesn't mean it's bad in mods.
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