[UTRP] "UT 2341" port into Unreal Tournament

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Torax
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Re: UT Remodelling Project (UT SDK addon in closest future)

Post by Torax » Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:41 pm

Few days ago i'd found model of sniper rifle useless. The main cause that it is actually don't looks like original one fully (only recognizable forms which can define it as original one).
So i decided to rework it again.

This base will be finished adding missed details, and will be more detailed and have more slight look itself.

EDIT
I'm thinking to add more improved weapon rendering functions, which will able player to feel his weapon.
I mean moving the weapon depending on how player rotates his view (like for example that was made in Ballistic Weapons). Probably this implementation will be configurable.
How you guys looking at this?
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Re: UT Remodelling Project (UT SDK addon in closest future)

Post by {S.o.W}DeathMask » Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:48 pm

That's very nice.
Remember, though, that too many polys and too many triangles (by consequence) will cause Unreal Tournament to perform significantly slower than default.
And this affects lower performance on slow machines.
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Re: UT Remodelling Project (UT SDK addon in closest future)

Post by Torax » Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:52 pm

{S.o.W}DeathMask wrote:That's very nice.
Remember, though, that too many polys and too many triangles (by consequence) will cause Unreal Tournament to perform significantly slower than default.
And this affects lower performance on slow machines.
It's not so expensive for engine as you think buddy :mrgreen:
For now it have 1237 polys, will be up to 2000-2500 while finished. Also i will clean useless polys and whole model if it become too large due to my attention and love to small details which will make weapon looks great and not so flat as UT original weapons are)
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Re: UT Remodelling Project (UT SDK addon in closest future)

Post by {S.o.W}DeathMask » Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:42 pm

That was just a warning. Also UT3 ports were modified because of their poly problems. And so were some UT200X model ports as well.
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Re: UT Remodelling Project (UT SDK addon in closest future)

Post by Torax » Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:46 pm

{S.o.W}DeathMask wrote:That was just a warning. Also UT3 ports were modified because of their poly problems. And so were some UT200X model ports as well.
I know. Always keeping in mind polygonal limitations.
Already changed few things so now model lighter than i told.
Probably should change another few thingies in weapon body but in most of all it will have same look.

Thanks anyway :wink:
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Re: UT Remodelling Project (UT SDK addon in closest future)

Post by {S.o.W}DeathMask » Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:16 pm

Very nicely done!
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Re: UT Remodelling Project (UT SDK addon in closest future)

Post by [rev]rato.skt » Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:26 am

Hellow people, cade new weapons remodeled as the flack, bios, ripper and other ..
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Re: UT Remodelling Project (UT SDK addon in closest future)

Post by Dr.Flay » Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:43 am

Some of the fine shapes can be faked in the textures.
The Flak cannon is a good example of something with plenty of detail in the texture.

It just occurred to me that maybe it would be worth asking Gizzy if you could do an SDK port of the CSWeapons pack.

Also don't forget details like the sound of the travelling bullets. You should be able to hear a near-miss zipping past.

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Re: UT Remodelling Project (UT SDK addon in closest future)

Post by Feralidragon » Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:14 pm

In newer games most of the detail is "faked" by using normal maps, along with diffuse and specular maps, as rendering polys is still more expensive than that even in nowadays graphic cards. However, when those maps are badly used, the detail may end up look like plastic, rather than either organic or metallic.

In older games, it's more tricky though, it all goes down to the actual UV and make the textures using a light source angle that is most likely to be seen from (in NW3 for example, there's a lot of "relief" on the textures taking into account the angle you will look at them, and as pointed out, the Flak makes use of pretty much the same conceptual process of skinning). This is exactly why bump and normal maps popped out in the first place: they're still "fake relief" as done in the old textures, but that relief is rendered on top and changes with the angle of vision, light sources and a few other factors depending on the exact kind of texture map.

In UT, making something a bit close to a "normal map" may be possible (with perhaps some blending tricks and some proper UV planning in advance).

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Re: UT Remodelling Project (UT SDK addon in closest future)

Post by Torax » Thu Feb 13, 2014 3:40 pm

[rev]rato.skt wrote:Hellow people, cade new weapons remodeled as the flack, bios, ripper and other ..
This conversion will contain nearly everything from BotPack content)
Dr.Flay wrote:Some of the fine shapes can be faked in the textures.
The Flak cannon is a good example of something with plenty of detail in the texture.

It just occurred to me that maybe it would be worth asking Gizzy if you could do an SDK port of the CSWeapons pack.

Also don't forget details like the sound of the travelling bullets. You should be able to hear a near-miss zipping past.
Yep. This is the reason i will use few methods of about how textures for NW3 were created, cozz it's the only way to make weapons visually more smooth and fake their more complex forms that they actually are.

Hmm, FlyBy sounds of bullets is a nice idea! Totally forgot about this, thanks Doc :tu:
Maybe there are more few ideas you can propose?

And what did you mean under SDK port of Gizzy's CSWeapons pack? You mean force this pack to use SDK improvements? If yes, think it's could be possible. But that will be another task, in cause Shadow now have exams and not much time to work with SDK. And he don't know when new release will be done.
Feralidragon wrote:In UT, making something a bit close to a "normal map" may be possible (with perhaps some blending tricks and some proper UV planning in advance).
You mean the way you textured your stuff?
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Re: UT Remodelling Project (UT SDK addon in closest future)

Post by Feralidragon » Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:49 pm

Torax wrote:
Feralidragon wrote:In UT, making something a bit close to a "normal map" may be possible (with perhaps some blending tricks and some proper UV planning in advance).
You mean the way you textured your stuff?
No, I didn't texture anything that way yet (and probably won't). What I meant is that, perhaps with some clever UV mapping techniques (isolating the MultiSkins only to a few angles), and a small "3D" modulated texture overlay (with only bright and dark areas) with a few different variations which change depending on the light locations and the angle, something "closer" to a normal map effect could be achieved.

But it's just a wacky idea, I don't encourage anyone to actually go forward with it lol, I just mentioned the possibility (I will probably trying to work out something similar later on but without the need of having any overlays, probably something based of a real normal map).

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Re: UT Remodelling Project (UT SDK addon in closest future)

Post by Torax » Thu Feb 13, 2014 7:19 pm

Sounds interesting...but how it will be expensive for the engine?
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Re: UT Remodelling Project (UT SDK addon in closest future)

Post by Feralidragon » Fri Feb 14, 2014 3:10 am

It may or may not be, it depends a lot on the way it's implemented.
Whichever way it's implemented, the first thing that would need to be made would be something close to the generation of a map/tree on all the positions and ranges of the static lights in the level, since you will need to know constantly which lightsources should be considered and it should be a fast process. Since most lights are static, you can therefore create an algorithm that can make the lookup very efficient.

From there, it all goes down to the texture itself and the way you would intend to recreate the effect. It would be like having different version of the same texture/skin, but with different light source angles, and from there, depending on the lights positions and range, you could change the weapon texture or the overlay texture accordingly so it always looks good relative the real light sources.

If done from UScript alone, it would have mostly a GPU RAM cost (since in reality, you would have a number of textures of: each skin x the number of pre-calculated angles), if done natively however, depending on the implementation it could have a considerable CPU cost (C++ side), or a minimal GPU cost (OpenGL/Direct3D side, since it's faster to parallel this kind of straightforward calculations there, since a GPU has many more cores to play with, that's why they're faster for graphic rendering).

Even on the CPU side it could be optimized by transforming the calculation in a modulated blending (as anything above RGB(128,128,128) brightens the back texture, anything below darkens, which is exactly the kind of thing we need, to not mention that the palette would be smaller and one would just need to modify the index rather than the pixels themselves).

But then again, the bottom line, is best if you don't try this on the plain UScript side, if anything is best to implement something like this on the native side (I am planning to toy with the concept a bit myself later on).

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Re: UT Remodelling Project (UT SDK addon in closest future)

Post by Dr.Flay » Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:53 pm

Well I was thinking that as Gizzy is using the new particle effects etc. in U227 as a reason for a new version.
It is basically the HD version of his previous pack.
This time he showed an interest in making a UT version (and has even done some work on it).
Most of the work is already done, but Gizzy is busy (hehe).
A straight UT version is the most likely to happen first anyway, but I figure a beta SDK version would be useful for testing as it will allow some practice with the ammo effects etc. on a wider range of weapons.
By the time all the botpack models are done, you will have a clear idea of what effects you want to use, and what will work.
It does not matter that the SDK will change, if it is treated as a testing framework.

If you still have not tested Shadow's SDK weapons, I would advise it.
You can obviously change anything you like, but it gives you a good idea of what you will be needing to do later.
I need to re-write the weapon mutator entry, so I'll post that later. But for now use this command;
mutate sdkBotpack.sdkUTWeaponMutator

The sound of bullets wizzing past is added in a few mods (Infiltration etc.), and sometimes in individual weapons (Chaos).
Mostly we just get to hear the occasional ricochet as a bullet bounces.
I've been lucky/unlucky enough to hear the sound of NATO 7.62mm high-velocity rifle rounds zipping and popping over my head, and I have also had a small-bore rifle round come right past my ear.
They all make a sound (even air-rifle pellets).
I learned that "as long as you can still hear the bullets, you are still alive" :rock:

The sound of bullets flying is as much a part of the gaming experience as firing the gun.
High-velocity rifle rounds make a VERY distinctive sound, that I have not yet heard put in a game.
I suppose there are not many game developers that willingly have people shoot at them :noidea
High-velocity rounds travel so fast, that they create a massive vacuum behind them.
First you hear the zip, but it is followed by a loud pop as the vacuum snaps shut behind it.
If one of those hits you, it will suck big chunks of you, through the rest of you. If it hits a bone, the exit wound is huge (the size of a dinner plate).
:barf: The training I was given was, if you or the person is still alive, you plug the first hole with a tampon, and then stuff your berets (hats) in the exit hole.

OK, back to the mechanics.
Q: Does the audio renderer use a channel for a sound you can't hear yet, but is currently playing ?
I could see the mini-gun using-up all the channels if that is true.

I assume most mods just have the bullet actor permanently making a sound (loud volume but short radius), but I am wondering if it would be more economical to have the sound only play within a certain distance ?
...Oh I think I just had an idea !
If the bullet actor zipping sound was permanent, then a pop could be the sound triggered on proximity.
Ferali, is this a sensible way to make a ziiiiiiip-pop sound for the sniper rifle ?
Obviously there is minimal bullets in the air with the rifle.
:idea: Idea for the minigun. As the secondary fire is faster it should get hot and glow.
Possibly you could balance the fact it also becomes inaccurate with hotter glowing ammo causing more damage.
Maybe they could have a burning/fizzling sound for impact sound.

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Re: UT Remodelling Project (UT SDK addon in closest future)

Post by Torax » Sat Feb 15, 2014 1:37 pm

@Dr.Flay
Yeah, probably start to play around with SDK possibilities is good idea...i checked stuff but didn't played with configurations
Also i'm working now with port of UT weapons in Unreal using possibilities of Unreal 227. Did not reimported anything, just used UT weps ported by Dots.
For now cleared scripts from useless stuff and prepairing to implement particle effects

As about bullet sounds..i have few ideas about how to add dis thing.

1st the way is like you described - add an ambient sound for the bullet, make it loud but have small radius. But it have few things that will make it weird.
First of all, this better will work with projectile. In that cause that automag, rifle and minigun are using hitscan, it's impossible to do. Another thing on wich i can put my attention - if projectile flies with extreme speed (almost instant hit), you will not hear it's sound.
Sure, i can add some actors like minigun tracer or something for bullet weapons, but it will be really weird if you will have a headshot from sniper positioned at other side of level , and after second of watching like your head bouncing from the walls, you will hear sound of incoming bullet :ironic:

And now about 2nd way, much more interesting and useful
For this sound effect and much more (if coded), can be used way as Ferali made nuclear shock wave effects - he put some actor to the player, which plays upcoming shockwave sound with rising pitch, when the shock wave reached some range between itself and player. Probably, this effect can be coded to play sound on target, only when sniper points his weapon to the target, to not affect other players if they are not exist in aiming direction.
But this way also have few minuses. First of all, if somebody shooting you, you will not be able to guess direction of fire - from where you being attacked, because sound played by actor which follows player and it's played kinda in mono.
And another one minus same as for first way i described - rifle hit is instant.
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