UTR - The first Review

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Feralidragon
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Re: UTR - The first Review

Post by Feralidragon » Fri Mar 26, 2010 10:34 am

^ Ok, now that's just epic in every way and form, a 30000:1 compression :shock:

But it seems that was a specific project to make a full quality scene and then compress it to an unbelievable low size, and still fill it up to 64Kb with a final text. So unless that can be apllied to UT, in UT case I'm right, but regarding the rest it shuts me up regarding what I said, but then I wonder why today's games don't use the same technology (there must be some kind of financial boundery or complexity there that makes them step back), but this is just an assumption of mine.

Plus, everything I do I think about filesize (ask Creavion rofl, he heard me many times regarding the filesize of our projects lol), but in UT it just can't be compressed as much without changing it internally to adapt the new technologies and without coding it nativelly. For instance, 256x256 skins would be just good for the most things I do, and they look acceptable in the modeller program (they are filtered correctly), but then once imported into UT (with the best import options I found), they just suck. So to make them as acceptable as in the modeller, I have to rise them up to 512x512 (and everytime I can I try to makes parts of the skins 256x256, 512x256, 128x128, etc, to save filesize), and even so they don't look as good as in the modeller. So to have quality, I have to raise the resolution a bit more, and therefore need more memory and HD space to run them.
So unless someone knows how to make the same things with the same quality at a much lower filesize than what they already are without the need to go native, I have my hears open and I will imediatly aplly that knowledge to everything I am doing and already did, but until then, I repeat what I said, but more specifically: "In UT, without any sort of native addons, you can't expect quality within a 100Kb file, fact proved for already 10 years." (I am not saying pure coding mods, I am saying new stuff that needs new textures, sounds and such).

Anyway, that's really impressive and really leet stuff :rock: :tu:

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Re: UTR - The first Review

Post by Myth » Mon Mar 29, 2010 6:52 pm

hooray for farbrausch, but that's from year 2000, you should see newer stuff...

so if you want the most epic ever there is a really awesome 4kb demo. you need geforce 8800 at least i think to run it... for the rest there is youtube this is more like 300000000:1 compression and be prepared for a massive nosebleed.

gopostal

Re: UTR - The first Review

Post by gopostal » Mon Mar 29, 2010 7:04 pm

I spent some time reading up on these and it is simply incredible what can be done. Back in the day coding in DOS was done with size constantly in mind. Every character took up room and we continually struggled with keeping size as low as possible.

The advent of the hard drive and massive RAM loads pretty much eliminated that and coders lost all concern for keeping size down. No telling how efficient OS'es would be had we continued down that road.

Myth, that link is simply IN-SANE! Wow...4k...

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Re: UTR - The first Review

Post by TheDane » Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:14 pm

"this is more like 300000000:1"

that demo is awesome! ... simply awesome!

as a contrast :

NaliWeaponsIIX > 82656 K ... the ini alone is 3 K ?? puts things into perspective doesn't it? Indeed coders today doesn't care about sizes anymore.
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Re: UTR - The first Review

Post by Feralidragon » Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:18 pm

TheDane wrote: NaliWeaponsIIX > 82656 K ... the ini alone is 3 K ?? puts things into perspective doesn't it? Indeed coders today doesn't care about sizes anymore.
For your information, that pack has about 14 new weapons, done from the very scratch, including skins, models, code, etc, etc.
Also, if I didn't care about sizes, that pack would have about 300Mb, I guarantee you.
What makes the pack so big are some 512x512 skins, high detailed sprites and a few decals, lots of wav sounds, panning textures (since I didn't use Ice textures back then), and the code has around 300 NEW classes.

Now, it's true at this stage they can/could be even smaller, about 60Mb or so, plus the clients only download about 40Mb, not the whole 80Mb, and it's true that I could make it better and stable, and they aren't that good for the size they have.

And that's why I am doing a whole new version and seperate each and every single weapon and new pickup sets. The core has now about 10Mb, and won't get higher than that, and it's the biggest file for the new version (due to a new effect that occupies most of the core, but that worths it), then each weapon and pickup set will have between 1Mb and 8Mb, so people will be able to actually choose the weapons they want to run without any side effects or depending on files they don't need.
Also, do you remember the server lag? Forget it with the new one. Besides, just finished today the first weapon of the new pack, and tested it for about 30 min in a server environment (online), and do you know how many Accessed Nones I had? 4 of them, yet NONE of them were from my pack. Ironic or not, 2 were from the UT original Sniper and the other 2 from the original Ripper, what about that? And I guarantee you that this weapon alone has more features and new stuff than most mods together (and add the ability to change the "hand" skin to whatever you like to the list as well).

And to finalize, let me say this to you, that each new weapon is coming with a greater quality than the old pack all together, and a really noticeable smaller filesize, and yet I predict the whole sets combined to have around 120Mb.
That makes me a bad coder that don't think about file size? No. It just proves that I learn from my mistakes, something that you hardly do, and that I actually make NEW things to try to keep this GAME you brag about ALIVE, mostly since if I didn't want to do it for the game, I wouldn't bother with online support since they have another real objective that's not exactly for servers, it never was from the first day I thought in the concept.

Besides, I am not that great, I know that, but I ensure you that I am good enough to say that you don't have any support to talk, mostly when all you want to do is come and troll with the excuse that we're letting UT die. Just look at you: looked for thread, and with a bunch of examples you could give for that, ironically you give one of the admins mod to the trouble, I wonder why. :ironic2:

If you want to keep trolling, just leave this forum for good, you're not welcome here anymore.

PS.: You're comparing a "static file base mod" with a "procedural scenery" :lol: :lol2: Just for laughs, really.

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Re: UTR - The first Review

Post by TheDane » Thu Jun 17, 2010 5:36 am

touchy eh?

sorry god :tu: ofcause 14 weapons should take up that much space :loool:
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Feralidragon
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Re: UTR - The first Review

Post by Feralidragon » Thu Jun 17, 2010 11:49 am

Yes, touchy indeed. I accept any criticism and opinions, but not any kind of trolling, specially from a developer that I bet everything that never made anything as complex or as big as I did on my released and in developing mods (specially regarding some of the mods in developing, such as the new weapon pack, vehicles and mapping stuff such as UScript based distance fog or water zones with true trails and splashes, and a bit of distortion, ambient sounds, etc).

Plus, consider this: each weapon has the following:
- Their own new skins (some of which are 512x512 textures, which have around 200Kb each)
- Their own sounds (all wav, which means uncompressed, which means bigger size)
- Their own effects (explosions and other sprites, some models etc)
- Their own models
- Their own code from the very scratch
- Their own visual and gameplay

So go ahead and try to make a single weapon with a ton of new features and possible tweaks, and everything done from scratch and implemented new, and the max quality you can get, and see the final filesize genius :wink:

Unlike you and many around, I don't just go and edit a sniperrifle, add some stuff and voilá: a new weapon, no, I do really NEW weapons, and so the bigger filesize, since the totally new content can't be generated from the air you know:

Code: Select all

- Classes: 379, 1.89Mb
- Coronas/light and shock sprites: 58, 3.82Mb
- Decals: 6, 492Kb
- Effects: 72, 2.05Mb
- Explosions: 19, 432Kb
- Fonts: 1, 20Kb
- Icons: 21, 804Kb
- Models: 94 (x2 [2 files each]), 2.85Mb
- Overlayers: 6, 36kb
- Palletes: 2, 32Kb
- Panning Textures: 96, 10Mb
- Screens: 29, 1.84Mb
- Skins: 179, 19.3Mb
- Sounds: 174, 19.2Mb
- UTX packages (new particle effects, dynamic textures and such): 5, 6.36Mb
- INI: 1, 1.55Kb
- INT: 1, 498b
And I remind you that now I can achieve better effects and without using the panning textures for example, and that I can lower safelly the resolution of some skins and effects, and thus lowering the overall filesize, besides I don't like NW2X myself anymore, and so the reason of making a totally new improved version.

The ini is that big, which proves pretty much that this mod is very flexible and server admin friendly, unlike many which fall in the mistake of hard-code almost everything, which is bad programming, since anyone can tweak almost everything regarding the pack for their needs, both locally or for the server.

The day you do something HALF this big alone with higher quality, let me know :thuup: (and I mean everything from scratch), and I am not even refering to the new pack, and I still talking about the old highly outdated one that is something really ancient now. So even if you can do a whole pack by yourself matching or higher this one, I will have my new one ready by then with features that not even UT2004 has atm, or an architecture and flexibility that none of the UT series had so far.

But truth has to be told, the filesize always presented a the biggest problem in this pack, and guess what, not anymore in the new one.

Take care :thuup:

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Re: UTR - The first Review

Post by TheDane » Thu Jun 17, 2010 3:27 pm

lol


i bow in your direction you god of development :rock: please teach me how you do all that, I have never ever made anything bigger than a weapon replacer :)
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Re: UTR - The first Review

Post by nila » Thu Aug 04, 2011 5:21 am

It is a interesting sharing...............

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