An idea for forcing PathNode connections.

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An idea for forcing PathNode connections.

Postby Gustavo6046 » Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:06 am

I was placing PathNodes in my map, and moved a single node very slightly, and decided not to rebuild paths, when I realized, I could be smart, and trick the engine into forcing a connection between two nodes, by moving one of them into a position reachable from the other, then moving it back into place without rebuilding.

My questions are,

  1. Is it possible?
  2. If so, was it done before?
  3. What are possible cases where this technique would be useful?
  4. Is there a way to make it automatic, so I don't have to move the forced path nodes back and forth every time I rebuild paths?

Thank you,
Gustavo.
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Re: An idea for forcing PathNode connections.

Postby PrinceOfFunky » Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:00 am

Gustavo6046 wrote:What are possible cases where this technique would be useful?.

If it works I guess it could be useful with narrow passages where pathnodes usually don't work.
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Re: An idea for forcing PathNode connections.

Postby sektor2111 » Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:23 am

Apology for a half Off-Topic, but speaking about whatever connections (not moved nodes here) this is what I could do in August 2015, some of links were not connected as I wanted but I still could figure operational routes to "RememberSpot" using "ShowPath" - I did not have "BotyMan3" tool in that time...
This is a defending position which works for sure:
Func_Defence.PNG

Then others a bit more evil and working partially:
VeryRarelyUsed.PNG

After this exercise, I could figure how to link "healthvials" in a DM-CoolBlue map version...
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Re: An idea for forcing PathNode connections.

Postby Gustavo6046 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:02 pm

That is very interesting, sektor! Indeed, if more people knew this trick, I'm pretty sure many maps would have a higher quality level in terms of pathing. Or we could just have an Editor plugin do this for us.

I don't think you need to stay completely on topic, either, as long as you manage to make the Editor build paths where it would usually refuse to.
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Re: An idea for forcing PathNode connections.

Postby sektor2111 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:40 am

There is a little story toward this map (another one was shared in that time too).
It was announced as usual in a forum where by default everyone said "woow". In a few minutes I could show a nasty BSP bug and again... a door used as Lift with no A.I. deal. A few hours later I fixed BSP and then I got drunk. Due to my mental state from next minutes I went ahead for mad pathing stunts but it's hard to recall every detail how I bugged Editor for doing these - I think I was about to kill that poor Scout pawn used. Some tweaks which I posted here and there are supposed "dumb posting" - that 90% of "gibberish-txt-sektor-walls" - but I know what paths have done others and who did trash. These devs have a simple logic toward their mode of operating. Whoever is understanding that logic and what Editor does, pathing map becomes a hobby.

As a note:
Sektor was posting 100% wrong stuff - it's about that "udemo" modification which is actually crashing (a map with Biterfish - stupid mapping as usual) and using a smilie like this > :D . Definitely a mod not enough tested, I simply deleted that, disappointed because I really wanted such a tool.
In exchange sektor2111 has evidences and tools done for testing and it's talking after X checks.

You can imagine that I won't post all junks which I have for testing. They are going hosted as "maps / mods" and poor admins will get mad trying to figure what's going on.

For paths: That route should not have a collision with any walls as primary goal - for slants it depends on angle. Path should not be at 80+ UU upper from ground - Bot case. Imagine path used as a defencepoint - pawn should be capable of sitting there, exceptions are in special situations where we need to motivate pawn to fall (jump into hole) combos and custom teleporters. Forgetting buried nodes is a good thing - nodes from ground are not a deal.
All paths which Editor does are based on some movement analysis and using a reference pawn (Scout) as Higor sampled in his devs ported in UScript. As for Scout evidence - in order to demonstrate more clear:
Code: Select all
//=============================================================================
// Scout used for path generation.
//=============================================================================
class Scout extends Pawn
   native;

function PreBeginPlay()
{
   Destroy(); //scouts shouldn't exist during play
}

defaultproperties
{
     AccelRate=1.000000
     SightRadius=4100.000000
     CombatStyle=4363467783093056800000000.000000
     CollisionRadius=52.000000
     CollisionHeight=50.000000
     bCollideActors=False
     bCollideWorld=False
     bBlockActors=False
     bBlockPlayers=False
     bProjTarget=False
}
Can you see first remark ? Can you see collision cylinder ? That's why paths for inventories nearby walls or small places do looks moved away. This Pawn is reference for InventorySpot placement and... it's automated, not like for PathNode case. I did a builder for probing spots before messing with 100+ Paths build, builder uses exactly this Scout for testing spots and it will report when a path might be a red one enough accurate. Flying paths are red anyway, btw, not done with UT Editor.
If inventory has generated a really bad Spot but it "MUST BE" there, don't force path in spot - add inventory AFTER building paths and excepting the nasty one or move it into void until paths are build. Inventories which cannot be touched by Scout (from void) won't generate paths.
Why InventorySpot ? These are DM targets for Bots and exactly here ENGINE decides location VIA Scout not entirely the mapper. Imagine now a... smaller Scout... :wink: .
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