Bots don't stand still on horizontal lift

[sektor2111]

It might even check for MaxDist2D for whether the lift is close enough horizontally, unless the value is set to zero as usual, and some other parameter I forgot it's name that is the Z height threshold where the bot should start getting in.

MaxDist2D = 400 in default unless you wanna see Bot camping forever - it refers to entrance in Lift, Exit is our problem here, it jumps earlier due to a reachable point sudden appearing. And then Bot code is not completed trying to reach at target with chances to fall trapped/burned - BAD MOVE Epic.

Second point, False information posted at Wiki based on people's dumb presumptions doesn't not help learning. It's about path between LiftCenter and Last LiftExit destination. When LiftCenter.Location claims "reachable" LiftExit, Bot should see if really can reach there but someone forgot this example or it was a expensive code for those times lagging frames.
Measures: (CHECK POSTS and MAP test example) IT IS solved by creating a permanent non-reachable exit and a Trigger in MyLevel (which can be much improved for other cases) skipping LiftExit directly to a PathNode if Lift has arrived in safe spot.
Alternate method for map with brushes fixed, using reachable timing. When Liftcenter have a trace-line with LiftExt Bot will be able to reach there safely because it cannot be seen until Lift is Closer enough (it's obstructed almost until Lift arrived at destination) - so IT IS TWICE solved.
The rest of blabbering around paths is pointless, and yes, because using defaults cannot be really perfect (especially Last Lift) we need a Custom Trigger coming around around Navigation inspired from another Default (not important where from).

Edit:
@Iacobus
I see new things... Good work.
Also I see a PathsRebuild... I would like to see InventorySpots as were manually set not Automated by Editor (without taking in account SpawnPoints). While they pass through Vials engaged with enemy, will also try to get Minigun being morons and falling. There I guess I have to Move things a bit, preventing a False Reachable Minigun.

And now if you don't mind a private job, you might take a look at BSP problems from MH-Cliffs2 around MonsterEnd (see it at UT collectors). That one could be fully operational having the same LIFT types but originally doesn't work (only first version of MBot was good there, jumping like frog - default Bot Never). Aside, lower area is not a kill zone creating dumb things with monsters. I mention that one here because it is matching topic's title perfectly being more than annoying.

[Iacobus_Imrlz]

I see new things... Good work.
Also I see a PathsRebuild... I would like to see InventorySpots as were manually set not Automated by Editor (without taking in account SpawnPoints). While they pass through Vials engaged with enemy, will also try to get Minigun being morons and falling. There I guess I have to Move things a bit, preventing a False Reachable Minigun.

You can place items on those new platforms if it doesn't mess with the botpath and blockpaths if possible on those dead ends. (I'd like to see an eightball in this map somewhere...)

And now if you don't mind a private job, you might take a look at BSP problems from MH-Cliffs2 around MonsterEnd (see it at UT collectors). That one could be fully operational having the same LIFT types but originally doesn't work (only first version of MBot was good there, jumping like frog - default Bot Never). Aside, lower area is not a kill zone creating dumb things with monsters. I mention that one here because it is matching topic's title perfectly being more than annoying.

Nice mountains for clouds LOL
Are we talking the same map?

[sektor2111]

You see ? They look like were copying from each-other everything including stupid bugs. It's like a clone in Open-Map style.

[Iacobus_Imrlz]

You see ? They look like were copying from each-other everything including stupid bugs. It's like a clone in Open-Map style.

At least this one has a name. Know any "Jeklo"?
I have too give a credit for since it's from 2002. Mine were worse at the time lol

It seems I managed to fix that tear on the ground at the end and found 2 more bugs, those large planks and the slope beneath the double wooden plattform. Both fixed as well

[sektor2111]

At least this one has a name. Know any "Jeklo"?

No, and when I saw Bot being so dumb there + BSP and death problems, I suddenly lost my interest in finding him/her.

Allright, now I have to set Death at bottom + tuning A.I. for a nice MH game-play.

[Iacobus_Imrlz]

No, and when I saw Bot being so dumb there + BSP and death problems, I suddenly lost my interest in finding him/her.

In this one he didn't even try to vertex edit though. Those are common mistakes when you place brushes without watching for nasty overlapings and angles that don't go well together without proper treatment.

Allright, now I have to set Death at bottom + tuning A.I. for a nice MH game-play.

Not sure if you wanna do an overhauling on this one or not, we could time our time if so. You know, when I said "worth a fix" I kinda meant it lol.

[Gustavo6046]

I probably should add this info to the Wiki's LiftCenter article... but it's all legacy and updating them is for some reason discouraged

Discouraged does not mean forbidden...^^. If you think that a piece of information could be useful for others, add it there, please. That's what a Wiki is made for.

OK, I should probably try adding (not replacing) info then.

Even though the info in the old Legacy:JumpSpot (UT) page was really awful and needing a replacement...

[sektor2111]

OK, I should probably try adding (not replacing) info then.

Or you might finish AirSmashing mutator rather than screwing Wiki.

______
The Main trouble - LOL I didn't know that things might go so bad in this Cliffs, I could figure a bad work first time when I was visiting map but I couldn't believe that can be so messed up.
Using Sheet maker I was trying to cover areas with a Portal. Portal went somewhere closer to bottom And I have used a CloudZone (I know how do it works) for safe destroy monsters and kill player felt down. Oh well, looks like has bad brushes causing zone leaks and doing funky things. I have changed it with other zone damaging pawns and... damage happens when map starts LOL (similar stuff in a DM crap), which means zone is not isolated by portal and spreads damage forward as even Editor shows zones linked.
If these cannot be solved then I have to code a proper kill trigger (not TriggeredDeath garbage) and adding it at bottom area doing what a Kill-Zone does - murdering every "bIsPawn" actor. I'm not sure if I'll use "Touch" as long as Touch is limited at 4 pieces, or I might combine a bit things.

[Iacobus_Imrlz]

OK, I should probably try adding (not replacing) info then.

Or you might finish AirSmashing mutator rather than screwing Wiki.

______
The Main trouble - LOL I didn't know that things might go so bad in this Cliffs, I could figure a bad work first time when I was visiting map but I couldn't believe that can be so messed up.
Using Sheet maker I was trying to cover areas with a Portal. Portal went somewhere closer to bottom And I have used a CloudZone (I know how do it works) for safe destroy monsters and kill player felt down. Oh well, looks like has bad brushes causing zone leaks and doing funky things. I have changed it with other zone damaging pawns and... damage happens when map starts LOL (similar stuff in a DM crap), which means zone is not isolated by portal and spreads damage forward as even Editor shows zones linked.
If these cannot be solved then I have to code a proper kill trigger (not TriggeredDeath garbage) and adding it at bottom area doing what a Kill-Zone does - murdering every "bIsPawn" actor. I'm not sure if I'll use "Touch" as long as Touch is limited at 4 pieces, or I might combine a bit things.

Yeah, I figured you'd have trouble with the sheets, but I thought you first would come with more bad spots that I couldnt find. Look those 2 additive cylinders he put together crossing the first gap, totally unaligned. That kinda thing ruins your map, specially if you have zones cutting across. (Ahem, his light job in the vacuum was outstanding lol)

To figure if zones were done propely, change to "zone viewport" (the first icon on the right), then you don't have to have the trouble of saving, running UT, loading the map to get killed on the first screen lol If the zone you built is the same colour of the above/aside, then zone has leaks that needs to be treated.

[sektor2111]

Hmm... look what is saying "BrushBuilder", simply is a basic info and an important one:

// * When generating polygons with more than 3 vertices, BE SURE all the
// polygon's vertices are coplanar! Out-of-plane polygons will cause
// geometry to be corrupted.

So... that's explain a lot. If I would be a sort of mapper, perhaps I would check first lines from a header of an actor which I want to drop in my toilette collection of cubes...

Edit: Those lights from void I think they can be removed...

[Iacobus_Imrlz]

Hmm... look what is saying "BrushBuilder", simply is a basic info and an important one:

// * When generating polygons with more than 3 vertices, BE SURE all the
// polygon's vertices are coplanar! Out-of-plane polygons will cause
// geometry to be corrupted.

So... that's explain a lot. If I would be a sort of mapper, perhaps I would check first lines from a header of an actor which I want to drop in my toilette collection of cubes...

That's exactly what I was trying to say on the "Non Convex" thread. Textures are only rendered on flat surfaces. If the square formed by the vertex points don't create a flat surface (v,h or inclined) you get that effect as though the texture is being rendered inside the brush. That's what I meant by 'bad vertex alignment'.
But that's the least of the problems with his brushes... Size, shape, angle, complexity, too much overlapping, bad snapping, zones, anything done wrong can screw up with the geometry.

[sektor2111]

Yes, now I see zones correctly, I go for tweaking movers and paths (looks no problem if I got rid of useless lights from void).

[Iacobus_Imrlz]

Yes, now I see zones correctly, I go for tweaking movers and paths (looks no problem if I got rid of useless lights from void).

Here's an update without the 'extra' lights if you don't want to go through the trouble, but if you change to top view and ctrl-alt-click and drag over them you can do it in 2 secs . I've changed the skybox a little bit too. Let me know if you wanna change the geometry or if it's fine that way. Btw, could you name a few good standard MH maps people play often just so I can have an idea?

Edit:

MH-Cliffs2(v3).rar

(191.17 KiB) Downloaded 59 times

Damage triggers removed from the pit and stars made visible in the skybox.

[sektor2111]

We can speak about my "ideas" in the right section. Returning at this one... Lift problems are solved (A.I. + sounds) MH 5.04 reports 0 Zero tweaks for movers, simply they are good set (including some lightning at first Bridge which was obviously a dark shit after opening). Being in Brush and building map like than Mover was holding initial light - NO light in void, so I used a slope to gain a proper wood bridge.
Looking at Skybox (original) I figured map as an ambient closer to "night-coming" time, those torches are simply stupid. I don't see too much deal with such useless solid brush increasing polys count for nothing like a light. For an easier deal I have MyLevel-ed a smaller TorchFlame which has a way better lightning. As for those lights coming from nowhere because the sky is pretty dark, I have tuned general level lightning leaving only down area for a "dark death". Then... torches seems friendly even with lifts, Lift seems to change light during movement around TorchFlame without issues - must see On-Line how do works. At a moment Lift Lightning seems unfriendly that's why I left them alone. Now ambience seems to match SkyBox and Torches are doing a visible light looking like they have a meaning and ugly looking brushes have been deleted.

__
If you look well through good MH stuff I can mention (even with a few nasty flaws) Derdak, XYZ2000 (if I well recall), Rob, Kardiologist, and any dude making similar things (a story around Level not idiotic cubes with "Big Gunz" named MH - that's not MH - is a 0 skill race). From "news" I can quote... maybe nothing, could be Rogues but has lousy packages Duplicated load and bugged in points - has a monster tweak and Bot support is totally doable - long time passed until I figured such a Level. Stuff by TheDanes might be an option... after adding full Bot Support (even monster in my MH2 reacts more insane if map is well pathed challenging hunter). Those sort of cubes (Made In Japan) unsigned (I know this style) might be OK for UnrealEngine if would have paths - in some of them is perfectly doable and increases difficulty for a team game. Tomoko series + Sayuri and the rest of "Yokozuna" and such. This job might be for Botz Mutator - time consuming of course.
Conversions from Assault executed almost perfect, ColdSteel, fully operational by luck Overlord, Guardia could be but... nah has a spot where Bot gets stuck (should find a fix or I'll use my fixed one), original converted HighSpeed must be deleted + HTD presumed one has no A.I. (I did another one after hunting some sounds). Also there are several acceptable (by others not by me without fixing them completely - Movers, Monsters, Bots). When I was trying to solve some problems I did not see too many MH tutorials in that time so... None High-Tech.
The rest of modifications doesn't make sense, monsters changed but no paths fixed, Weapons added but BSP bugs are ancient, messages added bla bla but Accessed Nones were not removed and neither stupid IntroDude (I might code an ExtroDude or a MidnightDude to broadcast On screen: Hey, dumb mapping fixed).
Specials: Map.Destination = Garbage.Location; they have mutators added screwing HUD, regens, timers, and trouble makers with crap stuff. Stupid Bots added as monsters, Some... Interpolations which were never working On-Line, 0 monster maps, etc... trash list is insane longer but is a "HowToNOT" tute.
Others are for resting... all player camps at redeemer spot doing a 0 skill battle and bullshitting about their "night time jobs".

[Iacobus_Imrlz]

To really fix this map it'd be good to replace all the geometry like in LavaCaves and add some depth to those flat cliffs, increase height and level of detail on those outposts/cave entrances/bridges. The problem is although I did some quick fixes to remove the flickering and tears, if you start placing new brushes, these will conflit again with his missplaced ones. Too much work for such linear gameplay. (If you could, post the final version of both maps with the fixed paths so people stop downloading the unfinished ones and also let me know how the maps are doing on the servers)

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Derdak, Rob making good maps... No surprise there lol I did a quick search through MH archives last night but couldn't find any of theirs (did FragnBrag finish any of his MH maps?). Actually I couldn't find anything that was worth a download, also, lots of dead links and dead sites. It seems most maps out there were made in a hurry by the players themselves, with no polish or sense of level design at all.

We can speak about my "ideas" in the right section

Yes, this is getting really off topic now, we could open a MH maps thread if anyone else is interested, but this place is a coder's nest and the mapping section seems dead for good...