Bot-Pathing Request (why wait for someday?)

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EvilGrins
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Bot-Pathing Request (why wait for someday?)

Post by EvilGrins »

CTF-AYetiTV is literally the first map I ever got for UT that didn't come with the game. I've had it forever and I love it, though I largely only play it for DM because without pathing there's no great reason to play CTF against bots, and it's been over a decade since I've seen anyone host it on their server.

It has variable levels of gravity, multiple redeemers, warp zones, vehicles of a sort, and it's MASSIVE. If you fire a redeemer from 1 end (just did a test with a transloc) it will take 45 seconds for it to get to the other side.

Given the sheer size of it, it may not be possible to fully path it... but maybe just path enough inside the 2 bases so bots have a fighting chance to defend their flag?

As is, this is the kinda map Hook & MEAT probably drool over for redeemer matches:
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Spoiler
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Anybody think they're up to this challenge?
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OjitroC
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Re: Pathing Request (why wait for someday?)

Post by OjitroC »

It does have pathing - at least, the version you posted does - looks like there are 296 pathnodes plus ambush, patrol and defense points. I haven't played it yet so don't what it is like for CTF - though I did notice an invisible barrier on one of the 'vehicles' which may, or may not, be deliberate.
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Re: Bot-Pathing Request (why wait for someday?)

Post by EvilGrins »

OjitroC wrote:It does have pathing - at least, the version you posted does
Well, the version I posted I've had over 15 years and all the bots on the map stay pretty close to where they spawn in... so that pathing must be for something else. Maybe it's vehicle pathing??

Should've been more specific. I want it bot-pathed.
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Re: Bot-Pathing Request (why wait for someday?)

Post by Red_Fist »

A map like that, with all the ramps I think would be a brutal ctf play if it was small, smaller.

I will take a look at the map, see what gives.,,paths

Might be kind 0of cool to offset the ends, so you can't see the flag, of which I ain't gonna do.

EDIT
good luck with that yeeehaw. he is using those ship movers expecting the bots to ride them. If they do he is making the path stop at the ship, then breaks. Like getting the bots on the ship, but not really follow a path.

The other thing is the bottom with the zone floor that thrusts you up, no way to path that.

The only thing I can think is just make one ,on the ground, ramps, or wherever to connect each side so they know the other flag is there. Or use some liftexits and lifcenters to make forced paths all over the place to connect the sides so at least there is connections all around to each side.

So between the floaty air, the ship movers, and the bounce zone at the bottom, would be very hard to path. :omfg:
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Re: Bot-Pathing Request (why wait for someday?)

Post by SilverSound »

Red_Fist wrote:So between the floaty air, the ship movers, and the bounce zone at the bottom, would be very hard to path. :omfg:
So in other words this is in the realm of no paths land. Haha :loool:
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Re: Bot-Pathing Request (why wait for someday?)

Post by EvilGrins »

Red_Fist wrote:he is using those ship movers expecting the bots to ride them.
There are a number of DeathMatch maps that have a working subway system on them, but they're not built for bots. The maps are pathed for the bots to have a full range of travel for them but not to get on the trains...

...by the same token, if anyone is ever crazy enough to try and path CTF-AYetiTV, screw getting the bots on the ships. Those ships are for human players, not bots... cuz if a bot falls off there's no telling where it'll land.

There's a reason I've kept this map as DM-AYetiTV on my system. It's great fun to play it with MonsterSpawning mutators and just go monster hunting, especially with several Warlords out in that open area between the bases.
SilverSound wrote:So in other words this is in the realm of no paths land. Haha :loool:
That'd be cool to place under level-info as the map's name.
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Re: Bot-Pathing Request (why wait for someday?)

Post by sektor2111 »

OjitroC wrote:It does have pathing - at least, the version you posted does - looks like there are 296 pathnodes plus ambush, patrol and defense points.
If CTF-Face would have all sort of craps for monsters but nothing linking Flags each-other it wouldn't work ever.
So what do we have here:
- Flags Moved Higher - I think are not easy reachable;
- After getting through that warp and stupid low gravity I don't see next linked nodes to other Base;
- Those PatrolPoints are not only for nobody (I don't see any creature set for them) but simply they don't have a chained logic of patrol.
And then What Is THIS ? While you run with flag in those open areas you are an easy target for advanced "players". If you try to dodge you fell away. Does this have a bit of logic ? Beside this movement in those areas seems intended to annoy player.
And now about paths. I set my goal enemy flag and I'm pretty closer at a few nodes away: Look what Engine returns...
[attachment=0]Area_problem.png[/attachment]
It do seems to have those stupid geometry problems and zone setup which make DevPath to not work (We do have examples already, right ? Read forum and see.)
Good luck with pathing HERE... as long as actually I cannot see routes from the same base to own Flag and/or enemy Flag.
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Re: Bot-Pathing Request (why wait for someday?)

Post by EvilGrins »

Back in the early days of UT-mapping, this map was one of the first. To more advanced mappers of today this map is likely a major clusterfuck of too much spaces, unnecessary rooms, and all sorts of other messed up things.

Couple of interesting points
· You can access the enemy base on the far side of the map without leaving your own base, the further you go into your base, there's warp zones that'll put you in the other base.
· Each base has cannons on the front linked to a teleport within the base. If you can air maneuver well enough, they will fire you over half the length of the map... provided you don't crash into something.
· The center of the map has the largest lift I've ever seen. At the top of it, on either side, is this:
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That also takes you into the enemy base without having to travel the full length of the map.

Basically, there's like 4 or 5 different ways to get to your enemy's base that don't involve running all the way across the map or jumping on one of those weird plane-things. Likely due to an old complaint early mappers had, being too many CTF maps really only offered a single way to get to the enemy flag.

Some people just love variety.

Like I said, it may be impossible to fully bot-path this map... but within the bases themselves might be easier. Although how anyone would path around where the flag is in the blue base is a true mystery: tiny room surrounded by a lake.
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Re: Bot-Pathing Request (why wait for someday?)

Post by Red_Fist »

I would just link all the ship mover paths with lift exits, each on one side to connect. lift center in the middle.

One way or another it will be messy, probably even hard to do with UT2004.

There may be a few other possibilities, but if they get into the grav stuff would probably lose all bots just gazing around at the bottom, and just springing up and down forever..

I don't know if it's possible, but if there was a teleporter at the bottom that only bots can use, could save the map for pathing.
Or add another zone, a teleporter zone, on top of the bounce zone that only affect bots. not sure how it works but I think the bots come in under "player" so probably can't work, especially online.
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Re: Bot-Pathing Request (why wait for someday?)

Post by sektor2111 »

I'm not sure if you understand what I mean. If goal is reachable Pawn goes there. If pawn has to travel ONLY a single path it is blinded. Else worth a try reducing nodes (if possible, because I see null spots which needs paths). But if geometry badly sucks, it won't work not even with only 4 PathNodes. Map is exhausting engine and it will discard A.I. requests - usually in such messed maps you might see A.I. a bit deaf and blind at figuring player around. So to speak, in this context: BYE BOT. Yes, Editor shows everything good but it is not good. Also I could see a PathNode into a brush :loool: .Probably Higor will figure an engine hack toward these dumb Levels for recovering DevPath.
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Re: Bot-Pathing Request (why wait for someday?)

Post by EvilGrins »

Went digging for more info · http://www.fileplanet.com/43561/40000/f ... ity-10,000

Text/ReadMe:
Spoiler
This crazy but fun map is all about speed. Aircraft and cannons take your player to high vilocities.



Title : A Yeti's Dream - Terminal Velocity 10,000
Version : 1.0
Release Date : 4th April 2000
Filename : DM-AYetiTV.zip
Author : Russell 'ZZZZYeti' Whitehead aka "The Yeti"
Email Address : schelle@bigpond.com
Description : A gigantic orbiting tactical map with low gravity, extreme speeed, aircraft travel, spatial abnormalities, a lot of redeemers and plenty of space to fly them.
Other levels by author : DMIce (Unreal), lots.
================================================================
--- Play Information ---
Game : Unreal Tournament
Level Name : DM-AYetiTV
New Sounds : No
New Graphics : No
New Music: : No
Known bugs : The bots try to attack BUT its a GIANT level and bots dont entirely understand. Generally the bots are set for defensive positions. So "TAKE THEIR FLAG" yourself - what you were going to defend and let the bots have all the fun?

--- Construction ---
Editor used : UnrealEd
Construction Time : two months (20 hours just to successfully compile - very difficult)

Installation
------------
Unzip the the .unr file and place it into the MAPS directories under your Unreal Tournament directory, double-click the map, or start a practice session and select the map from the menu.

Author's Notes
--------------
This map is all about SPEED. Special modifications to normal play will be needed.
The MAIN CHAMBER is in space, so it has low gravity and little friction.
The FLOOR acts like a trampoline, TRY IT! WARNING - you go up further and faster than you came down. WARNING2 - if you hit the floor too fast it will kill you - but very fast!
The AIRCRAFT fly very fast. To safely start your ride please enter the aircraft via the REAR-LOADING RAMP.
The GIANT CANNONS - two blue, four red, fire PLAYERS or bots - enter via teleports marked "FIRE CONTROL". Use backwards key to slow down - THE BRAKES. Strafe is very useful while safely landing.
Also the CANNONS give you the highest speed. Also water and sloping surfaces make for safer landings!
THE REDEEMERS - first for the cowards - REMEMBER redeemers are really slow compared to how fast you can go on this map.
- this map is your opportunity to ALT-FIRE and fly the redeemers - they will fly almost anywhere from anywhere but can you make good use of them - I LOVE 'EM - if you get a good screenshot with 12 in flight please send me a copy!
The TUNNELS - join the two ends and the middle of the main map up rather strangely.
- have normal gravity, etc.
- provide fast short-cuts for players and redeemers
- if they've stolen your flag use the shortcuts and send your redeemers after them - thats why they call them redeemers.
This map was made with only gameplay in mind. It is for you to decide if I have succeeded. I really hope you have a lot of fun!
I play with 15 Godlike bots - they do best with the sniper rifles - I fly in redeemers to upset them and then follow them in!
All email appreciated. Please tell me if you put it up on a server - I wanna play!
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Re: Bot-Pathing Request (why wait for someday?)

Post by sektor2111 »

20 hours to compile.... manure.
I won't insult my Bots with this, seriously I respect my Bots.
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Re: Bot-Pathing Request (why wait for someday?)

Post by EvilGrins »

sektor2111 wrote:20 hours to compile.... manure.
To be fair, like it says in there, he made the map in 2000.

How good a mapper were you back in 2000?
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Re: Bot-Pathing Request (why wait for someday?)

Post by sektor2111 »

To be fair I was not interested in being mapper or such in that time because I was interested in playing game in good conditions. Very late I was digging stuff triggered by such dumb ideas unable to understand many things in those moments and much later I went into deceptions only looking at craps added ON-Line majority being against rules from Tutorials. :wth: . EPIC included in stage no worries...

My life rule is simple: if I cannot finish something in good conditions, I'm quitting doing that thing - it's useless to mess up by default. You cannot ask me about a pilot skills as long as I don't want to be pilot, or doctor... or mapper. THEY are pilots, doctors... mappers, it's their job to finish their work not my job.

This is one of those ideas to force engine beyond boundaries (DevPath here as title of topic). Well, "mission successful", congrats :rock: And then... ? Years debate in pointless - they had skill for doing maps but maybe goal was to make players to leave - again "Mission Successful".

At MapRaider exist maps from year 2000+ which are very well suited for any quality based server and game-play, 2000 year is not an excuse, even now days some people cannot do stuff - obviously they cannot manage these - no problem. But exist a category who think they do well, but they don't - is exactly this point, it's only desire to be famous by creating Levels and goofing - which are not really hunted and even are trouble makers, badly screwed. I think in 2000+ I figured more tutorials and information than now days when old Web-Sites are down...

So... ON TOPIC - Yes, I have the question for myself too if Bot Pathing is doable (OPERATIONAL IN GAME) here. I will be interested if you can find a zone with at least 4 Nodes navigable because I'm curious like a mouse. I take this as a Testing LAB (because, apology, but I think this is not a Map as definition).
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Re: Bot-Pathing Request (why wait for someday?)

Post by Red_Fist »

sektor2111 wrote:20 hours to compile.... manure.
I won't insult my Bots with this, seriously I respect my Bots.

C'mon, you know you want to path this thing, :P

I expect 100% total bots have 10 points within 15 minutes. :wink:
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