MH-SValley2

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Re: MH-SValley2

Postby sektor2111 » Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:48 pm

It's good to see people helping others, team-work it's way more productive than a solo crap. Using above term because... it's time to setup an examination toward this MH map and to those fixed ones. Maybe my feelings around redoing it completely stands in front of any other solution.

Why I'm not surprised by those nasty BSP problems ? ALL versions have such stuff. Mentioning a name - "Brush526". What the hell happened with polygons over there and why that mix with a semisolid which won't accept "a marriage" with that "brush" ?

Hey, RedFist, watch this...
SV2_00.PNG
Do you think this will have a good build ? The question is: How can we do such a Lines soup because this isn't looking as having valid polygons. Fixing this will take a while...
Edit: More entertaining
Brush526 it's not the only one like that, now I see why even Editor itself goes stuck. I cannot imagine what would say Editor if it would be a human being able to talk...
I think I'm going to wipe the ground here, probably doesn't even worth to speak more...
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Re: MH-SValley2

Postby JackGriffin » Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:57 pm

You can't fix that.
All mazes should have a minotaur.

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Re: MH-SValley2

Postby Leo(T.C.K.) » Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:05 pm

I know exactly how this got created. First of all, these maps were made back in the day using old versions of Unreal, not january 1998 as the current usp review claims, they also don't have the svalley1 fix there as that map tends to crash on modern versions of Unreal due to ai paths not being built properly (this wasn't an issue with the old version it was made on btw).

In fact the svalley1 fix seems to be hard to find now that I am looking for it. I also disagree about the statement that the other maps weren't made because from what I've once heard, they were, he just either didn't release them to general public or it was on some obscure site and got lost just like many other things.

And I know that shamuquest 2 was intended as a prequel not a remake....kind of like those star wars episodes thing.

http://www.unrealsp.org/legacy/?q=reviews

http://www.unrealsp.org/legacy/communit ... quest.html

But to get back about that brush: That was normal back in the day. People couldn't create terrains etc easily back then. So there was a lot of intersecting and brush cutting and this is how it came out.

Jeff Rubin did the same thing when working on Unreal PSX, just check some of his brushes and indeed the maps are nightmare to work with....

So really, this kind of stuff used to be acceptable.

EDIT: Just in case, I say it but in Dig by Cliff, there are similarly made shapes, not broken that much mind you and done with more care, but they have been also shaped out using the intersect/deintersect and sometimes gained odd polys.
Last edited by Leo(T.C.K.) on Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MH-SValley2

Postby Leo(T.C.K.) » Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:00 pm

https://www.oldunreal.com/maps/single/

oldunreal still has "zmsvalley1" which was zora's fix for the path crashing problem.
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Re: MH-SValley2

Postby makemeunreal » Wed Nov 28, 2018 7:04 pm

It could be easily fixed with Blender.
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Re: MH-SValley2

Postby Leo(T.C.K.) » Wed Nov 28, 2018 7:53 pm

No, that's incorrect. The only way to solve it all is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfZAoON1nhE

The HOLE OF THE UNWORTHY!

YASHALLLMAKEBSPHOLESOFUNWORTHY

EDIT: It's your punishment of profaning the CHICO if you fall into the holes of the unworthy....
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Re: MH-SValley2

Postby makemeunreal » Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:11 pm

I don't remember that brush causing all that much-of-a-game-breaking-bug tho.

It's okay for me. So...
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Re: MH-SValley2

Postby Red_Fist » Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:12 pm

I think it is caused by preexisting non-brushes in void trying to delete a subtract after it was intersected with a semisolid and it's leaves crap behind. Plus collision problems all over the place.

What I would do is take that brush and surround it with a builder brush, even though it will have areas that don't match up, you can still use the good deformed working brush and deintersect it to fill all the gaps.

Plus you want to get rid of as much as you can, (all weird BSP stuff) then start over pasting in a new editor, (before you add back the new brushes)
That is stuck there so it's needs a new void, new start void or it will never go away.
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Re: MH-SValley2

Postby sektor2111 » Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:46 pm

Eheh, speaking about pathing... those are not paths, those stairs have a crap-ton of PathNodes with no purpose. Considering that EPIC at a moment were having information in their site (before to remove it) and that copy of site it's in a rar archive at Skillz, a few such SP things could be fixed next years but no one bothered to solve them... in 2004+ all that information was still available right at factory.
If Editor in that time before UT was so messed up I wouldn't waste time with it...

So, if you want a MH-SValley2 you might want to re-map it from Brush0 - starting clean and doing things more simple than making a brushes soup.
I could definitely improve Tarmation2 but this one... I don't know if vertex-ing around will return results... I have to be agree with Kelly here.
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Re: MH-SValley2

Postby Leo(T.C.K.) » Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:55 am

Vertexing around is a bad idea on those kind of brushes dude, unless it's all tesselated shit like the psx caves by nathan silvers etcetera.

And this is not. Nathan pioneered the tesselated stuff way before it was even feature in unrealed, he provided a tesel cube brush everyone had to import etc for that kind of stuff.

I did post that psx tutorial, it was really way before unrealed 2.0. But unreal psx was mostly done on version 220 and that had the best bsp builder ever(or second best, the best was wheel of time 3xx something), despite unreal editor being primitive.

The way polys are broken up is also different between unrealed 1 and 2 in fact exporting and importing this map might lead to very different results too. For example a lot of stuff that was one surface will get split into multiple in ued2 if you don't work with the base bsp and it's reimport. I mean mostly stuff related to the 2d editor....

So yea. It was all more complicated back then and if the mapper didn't have proper external tools, it was really a hack job working with the editor.

I honestly think that the map is a beatiful classic but that's just me. No sp maps could rival the scale of shamuquest until skaarjtower came along in 2004.
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Re: MH-SValley2

Postby Red_Fist » Thu Nov 29, 2018 2:29 am

Ya I can see how it would be in the editor, AND not knowing how to map as well. I think he used a solid sheet for the water because the other things around went through semisolids. What burns me is all these mistakes and whacko brushes, I use all cubes and get BSP screwage :oops: :lol: plus it's not a small map, uses plenty of movers, but he made the map work pretty dang good !!!
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