Study - Environment

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XaNKoNII
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Study - Environment

Post by XaNKoNII »

In continuation of my Level Design Studies I have made this map in wich i explore some gameplay (Singleplayer, NEEDS OLDSKOOL) mechanics as well as some light elements.
Apriciate your atention and would love to hear some feedback on this :D
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Study-Enviroment.rar
Contains necessary files as well
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Re: Study - Environment

Post by papercoffee »

XaNKoNII wrote: Apriciate your atention and would love to hear some feedback on this :D
Pics or didn't happened... :mrgreen:
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Re: Study - Environment

Post by sektor2111 »

Ooopsyy...
You have some room with semisolids stuff - I will ask you for parts of this <Study> for being used in MH map which I do...
Are you agree with this ?

Edit:
Locations from behind beds looks unhealthy - those surfaces aren't solid... I could see that even command "loaded" was not that OK, only a few weapons have been loaded in that Level, something bugs spawning actors which is not a good sign.
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Re: Study - Environment

Post by Red_Fist »

Well so-far, so-good, but need more time to read all the things. The main problem I can say is, being a test map and descriptions like that, not only have something happen but be to able to also turn it off via another trigger. , for "test map" purposes.

The other problem is that stupid text is so damn small, not your fault at all, I get the tiny powder blue small print.
Not sure if thee is a fix for that. :thuup:

I will be back when I finish it.
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XaNKoNII
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Re: Study - Environment

Post by XaNKoNII »

sektor2111 wrote:Ooopsyy...
You have some room with semisolids stuff - I will ask you for parts of this <Study> for being used in MH map which I do...
Are you agree with this ?

Edit:
Locations from behind beds looks unhealthy - those surfaces aren't solid... I could see that even command "loaded" was not that OK, only a few weapons have been loaded in that Level, something bugs spawning actors which is not a good sign.
Feel more than welcome to use any parts of the map as you wish, my only request is to show or tell me how you used them :D

What do you mean behind beds? those red sofas? (i admit they were not that great to be honest) as for the skaarj i had a terrible head ache trying to make them face foward when the crates open but at some point i gave up :cry:
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Re: Study - Environment

Post by Barbie »

Good lighting as usual :) But I found some issues in your map:
1) There are duplicate actors - what editor have you used to create this map?

Code: Select all

Brush36 occurs 2 times
Brush38 occurs 2 times
Mover2 occurs 2 times
SpecialEvent5 occurs 2 times
Trigger11 occurs 3 times
Trigger6 occurs 2 times
TriggerLight15 occurs 3 times
TriggerLight3 occurs 3 times
TriggerLight42 occurs 2 times
2) You have put two additive brushes with the same size at the same location (Brush27 and Brush28).
3) All LightBoxes have none default bStatic=False. That will not work on net play (bStatic cannot be changed on clients then) and clients get the warning:
UnrealTournament.log wrote:Warning: SpawnActor failed because class LightBox has bStatic or bNoDelete
Warning: Actor not spawned for new channel
4) Light18 is placed in the void.
sektor2111 wrote:Locations from behind beds looks unhealthy - those surfaces aren't solid.
I did not notice anything unusual there. :omfg:
"Multiple exclamation marks," he went on, shaking his head, "are a sure sign of a diseased mind." --Terry Pratchett
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Re: Study - Environment

Post by sektor2111 »

Excuse me ? Do you need glasses ?
[attachment=1]BioExplosion.jpg[/attachment]
Like I said (redundant posting) LOOK WHERE explosion is and also some border around has non-colliding surfaces.
And yes, it has also duplicated actors - I should check this by default.

PS:
I was copying such an area to my Map and I could see issues, thinking that I've been borked geometry there - But NO - IT IS already compromised because we have semisolids passing through each-other in multiple zones and through void and... I don't need to mess up my Level this way, I have removed some brushes and I've added some "buggers" for spreading BSP cuts. I'm not sure If I will not quit using this way of doing - perhaps after final build I'll do a full recheck because "insulting" a semisolid is not a good idea, and I'm not planning there any solid...

Edit:
For clarification - a bit more bright.
[attachment=0]ThatBorder.jpg[/attachment]
Where are biogel projectiles there ?
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ThatBorder.jpg
BioExplosion.jpg
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Re: Study - Environment

Post by Hellkeeper »

Just now found the time to play this. It's a nice little thing. Very basic architecture but nice beams in the warehouse. It would benefit from an actual skybox and a cloud zone outside the windows. Game mechanics are fine, triggers work flawlessly. Good work.
You must construct additional pylons.
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Re: Study - Environment

Post by sektor2111 »

Mechanics and triggers are easy to do, I don't see what's so special... but I think I know when duplicated actors might occur and... some consequences when map is a bit bigger than usual (bigger than stock maps).
It looks like importing a large group of actors (lights, brushes, decorations) from a Level (also bigger) into another one in construction, might be heading to duplicated actors - at high load Editor doesn't seem capable of re-wrapping objects and some Brush10 used in source map might be conflicting with Brush10 already build from target map, as effect, even other actors might go suddenly duplicated probably in a wrapping attempt. As I said, if map is pretty much large with a lot of stuff and things in MyLevel, you might figure Editor vaporized properly and here you go to desktop - no relevant log, no nothing, just gone - everything happening when you try to move through map for doing checks pre-building, so to speak map is about to go messy by using "importing" methods with Copy-Paste in the same Session (for keeping original textures).
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Re: Study - Environment

Post by XaNKoNII »

First of all i am so sorry for the late reply, but i have exams once or twice a week until August for my new job! :sleep:

-Red_fist
like that, not only have something happen but be to able to also turn it off via another trigger. , for "test map" purposes.
That is an interesting idea, if i come up with another proof of concept I will try out this idea :D
The other problem is that stupid text is so damn small, not your fault at all, I get the tiny powder blue small print.
Not sure if thee is a fix for that. :thuup:
Yep its the editor, if this was a full Single-player map i would had tried to code it to look exactly as great as possible.

-Barbie
1) There are duplicate actors - what editor have you used to create this map?

Code: Select all
Brush36 occurs 2 times
Brush38 occurs 2 times
Mover2 occurs 2 times
SpecialEvent5 occurs 2 times
Trigger11 occurs 3 times
Trigger6 occurs 2 times
TriggerLight15 occurs 3 times
TriggerLight3 occurs 3 times
TriggerLight42 occurs 2 times
I used the regular unmodified Editor 2.0 that comes with 436 version. I think the problem is probably what Sektor just pointed out. I´m not sure if in the final map .Unr was the one where i had to import a older version of the warehouse because for some reason all the triggered lights were not working, and i did a lot of copy paste in the same session. This is definitely something i will test in my next project and see if it happens again with me being cautions about it.

Code: Select all

3) All LightBoxes have none default bStatic=False. That will not work on net play (bStatic cannot be changed on clients then) and clients get the warning:

    UnrealTournament.log wrote:
    Warning: SpawnActor failed because class LightBox has bStatic or bNoDelete
    Warning: Actor not spawned for new channel
Good to know this, but for now I am not interested in MP maps (still will be carefull about this in case someone wants to use them in coop).

-Hellkeeper
justt now found the time to play this. It's a nice little thing. Very basic architecture but nice beams in the warehouse. It would benefit from an actual skybox and a cloud zone outside the windows. Game mechanics are fine, triggers work flawlessly. Good work.
First time i did architecture to be honest :roll: hope it was at least minimaly good to pass as amateur work :lol2:
As for the skybox, my take on leveldesign is to think carefully about emotions and the way it goes arround as you progress. I´ve been in a few places like that warehouse and you cant really tell much from the outside with such light. Plus there aren´t allays clouds in the sky that was my reasoning and why i decided to delete the skybox i was making.
Thank you :D , glad the very basic mechanics worked fine those were the ones i was worried about :oops:

-Sektor2111
Mechanics and triggers are easy to do, I don't see what's so special... but I think I know when duplicated actors might occur and... some consequences when map is a bit bigger than usual (bigger than stock maps).
It looks like importing a large group of actors (lights, brushes, decorations) from a Level (also bigger) into another one in construction, might be heading to duplicated actors - at high load Editor doesn't seem capable of re-wrapping objects and some Brush10 used in source map might be conflicting with Brush10 already build from target map, as effect, even other actors might go suddenly duplicated probably in a wrapping attempt. As I said, if map is pretty much large with a lot of stuff and things in MyLevel, you might figure Editor vaporized properly and here you go to desktop - no relevant log, no nothing, just gone - everything happening when you try to move through map for doing checks pre-building, so to speak map is about to go messy by using "importing" methods with Copy-Paste in the same Session (for keeping original textures).
As I said above, you really nailed the probable reason. Plus i did mess with the unit grid below 4 and used 2 and 1 sometimes despite being advised it is dangerous :loool:
As for the parts, i think i can work them to make geometry files for you (that is if i don´t have a few saved), would you want it? :noidea
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Re: Study - Environment

Post by sektor2111 »

Grid...
Not a single time grid can be used at 1UU if you want something decorated as mentioned in that tutorial. The problem is returning from Grid 1. Template red brush must have alignment at future 8 grid or 16, because 1 is not a pair number and pivot and or vertexes can go messy, the best method is reseting brush before switching to "default" Grid ( mine is 8 ). I've imported room with books indeed, I have re-edited those semisolids through void, but some "polyfix" errors are still shown coming from somewhere, I will do some check in detail at end if that room has issues. If still has issues, I have to do a detailed examination. Right now based on what happened at importing a SkyBox I'm really afraid of importing zones when map is loaded and almost done - it develops duplicated actors and I will not be able to finish it because Editor will get vanished - I gotta admit I have a bunch of MyLevel things...
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Re: Study - Environment

Post by Red_Fist »

No that is not correct thinking. A grid of 1 is one half of base 2 binary, is more accurate, from your point of view, view it as .5 since 1 is one half of 2. It won't matter to the computer other than not being a 0and1 =2 so a zero could be called grid 1, more accurate.

Number one does not need to follow the binary of 2, because it still IS binary 2, 1 is the most accurate. I still stick to the main graph lines ON the grid using a brush, like the min of 8 units so it stays on the main edges of grid 8. That way it stays within the confines of 2 4 8 16 32 64.........................

However you are correct if the previous build is a different size, the pivots and snap distance, and original brush gets screwed up.

What I do if a previous map is built in 16, I just make sure brush it is at the same spot as the grid 16 map (grid one is boss). Movers I click on the node in the center (or other) after I load map and grid 1 resets the actual pivot. And probably redo the key frames.
I dunno, been using grid 1 for 10 years, forever, because it works.
Last edited by Red_Fist on Sat Jun 24, 2017 6:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Study - Environment

Post by sektor2111 »

Yes, any grid works, default problem is Alignment to grid - that's the trouble maker in many maps with those BSP problems. Like I said GRID 1 is described even in tutorials and even an entire "How To do".

Someone said that there is no Level without bugs in UT. I think is a very False affirmation, there are solid Levels build by people with experience which are just... perfect, oh, if paths are "poor" (you have always another route to add if you want) that's a different story, NOT a bug, as long as Bot can reach everywhere in map - except tiny spots which can be pathed only by using "brute force".

Another fact which I did not love was those super duper decorations which I found here and there having ( sample ) collision radius 27.983521. For me is pretty much stupid. Why engine must process so much floating point crap ? To work more slower ? I have defaulted all those dumb things to a normal value. I might be wrong here but... for me makes no sense such a "precision". Why ?
Last edited by sektor2111 on Sat Jun 24, 2017 6:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Study - Environment

Post by Red_Fist »

I don't know how they get away with it, like that damn skaarj tower, or Mr Profits stuff and map packs, they just know something. :?
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Re: Study - Environment

Post by sektor2111 »

Red_Fist wrote:..like that damn skaarj tower, or Mr Profits stuff and map packs, they just know something.
I don't know what they know but... those are not bug free and fixing task takes ages... ( SkaarjTower on purpose )...
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