Aerial MH Hunt Sample

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Aerial MH Hunt Sample

Postby sektor2111 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:28 pm

Here is a small sample of a MH map with monsters attacking using "high" nodes.
MH-A3001.7z
(25.52 KiB) Downloaded 15 times

The fact; if you do a paths rebuild using default methods, monsters are not going to attack that much - only by accident trying to get you as much as they can because aerial links are lost in a normal build.

We can debate how to do these things if there are MH mappers with such ideas. In current sample everything is simple as a pie.
Now when I got something operational I think RX and/or Jets travel is possible if those works have a bit of A.I. navigation code - Paths through high spots over ground are doable... and they do work - evidence is shown above.

Testing: Load weapons and then load ammo, during this time 30 monsters will start attacking being 4 at time. When monsters are killed door opens and you can escape through corridor on Left Side - game ends. Bot support is available (2-3 pieces should be suffice) .
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Re: Aerial MH Hunt Sample

Postby papercoffee » Thu Aug 10, 2017 5:17 pm

I'll test it.
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Re: Aerial MH Hunt Sample

Postby EvilGrins » Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:47 pm

Forgot to turn off my favorite redeemer, so this went pretty quick.

Nice setup, simple presentation. Might've picked a slightly stronger flying monster, maybe gasbags, to make it last longer... even without the deemer.
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Re: Aerial MH Hunt Sample

Postby sektor2111 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:53 pm

Eh... I've done it for simple fast testing, gasbag is slow (but you can adjust that E_Creaturefactory if you find it funny), for one more serious like map, Manta definitely is not that challenging (depending on MH type running, cough), else in some MyLevel another "Manta" monster might be an answer, not a FASTER one - see wall bumping in random times (because of their speed) but with more health and a bit more damage...

So aerial paths are working as I can see... good...
We can debate "How To" for candidates interested, you will not believe how simple was done this Level - if you are interested to know...
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Re: Aerial MH Hunt Sample

Postby SilverSound » Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:11 pm

You know this really opens up a whole new possibility for UT. Having actual areal support would be amazing.

I'd be interested in you doing a bit of a tutorial on it.



Could even work this into XC as it's own path handling. Because....you know...trying to add on "flying" pathnodes coded through Uscripts won't work at all. Only hacky way is viable.
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Re: Aerial MH Hunt Sample

Postby papercoffee » Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:45 pm

Finally I could make my long planned Dog-Fight map. Ok teach me your magic.
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Re: Aerial MH Hunt Sample

Postby sektor2111 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:57 pm

Method might have advantages and... problems, depending on map-type, a simple map should not have any major issue. I could figure solution due to some zone leak occurred - as history.

Shortly, we might have some hole to pass which sometimes Editor will never link even if jumping is possible - high skilled Bots can pass such areas. Editor will be less cooperative making a Network split:
Normal_Broken.PNG
Normal_Broken.PNG (7.09 KiB) Viewed 411 times

So building paths is not recommended in this case because of above issue. Now let's fool Editor - dare to open Spoiler, :mrgreen: :
Spoiler: show
Cheap_Hacked.PNG

As we know so far Editor will link nodes in a water zone doesn't matter how they are located - more or less on Z axis. Editor will never understand our lie, so later we can restore zone properties bWaterZone to original value - FALSE - after building paths with PATHS DEFINE command.

The random trouble.
The_Trouble.PNG
The_Trouble.PNG (8.92 KiB) Viewed 411 times

Route to PathNode placed lower is simple reachable. If pawn is coming from a lower Node to a Higher located Node on a big box will have problems. For creating isolated links we can temporary set some WaterZones - cylinders or such, building map and paths, removing WaterZones, rebuilding map again WITHOUT to rebuild paths (UNCHECK PATH BUILDING BOX for safety in build menu - and use "manual driving"). If we do setting for entire Level, every link is debated like in water considering that pawn can move between points, so more links are expected. Go figure if situation is suitable for Non-water related to links created - should not be pickups in those spots if locations are higher than Pawn can jump else it will run in place trying to get items.
In current sample map I did not add any Inventory in Manta's room, so Bot will not move there as long as there is no purpose for roaming in that location - see nodes in game with ShowAll command.
Preventing to follow high route in such situation is doable with a node with bSpecialCost. In Event we can setup some condition for seeker - accepting bCanFly types and discarding them if not - a tiny coding is required for such task because stock doesn't have such "FlyPathNode" but it is doable and operational, engine working correctly in game.

Probing/testing is a MUST, for preventing a surprise. RememberSpot and ShowPaths are helpers here because... Bot will not fly to check these spots for you. You will use "Fly" cheat command before trying to find target spot. If WayBeacon is not shown, paths are borked (too close to walls, too far, etc.). Do not use helper commands in maps with WarpZoneMarkers and TranslocatorStart - you can crash the game, BotPack is BOT-PACK not HUMAN-PACK.

To summarize we have to do a simple setup temporary and then restoring it back. Is simple but it can go crazy if geometry has nasty higher spots which need paths. That's all, folks.
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Re: Aerial MH Hunt Sample

Postby papercoffee » Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:46 am

Ok? That's it? If you turn the whole map into a water-zone temporarily you get working pathnodes in the air?
But how can a bot be triggered to use a jet?
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Re: Aerial MH Hunt Sample

Postby sektor2111 » Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:33 am

papercoffee wrote:Ok? That's it? If you turn the whole map into a water-zone temporarily you get working pathnodes in the air?
I think map AS-OceanFloor do works. right ? And even AS-Frigate (including MH-Frigate_R14) with nodes in water, and if you are removing WaterZone actors probably Paths are still there, and Bot will use them as they are... falling to death - that's why this tech requires a bit of knowledge about Bot stuff and Navigation else results might turn into real trash - some geniuses have no clue how to setup default Navigation - here will have an ugly fail, paths going up in very high spots will only stuck Bot.
papercoffee wrote:But how can a bot be triggered to use a jet?
Oh well that's Jet code which... their coders seems to not care, I'm able to setup navigation, the other job probably will require some "JBot", as Default Bot uses ImpactHammer :| .
Such code was not in attention because aerial navigation was "impossible to do" - myth destroyed and buried.
If they do not care about this task I'll use this way when I'll need it in My-Level-s. Purpose of topic was to show that aerial Navigation is DOABLE bringing Evidence.

Edit: Because I was able to capture Self Attention :ironic: I'm gonna do other test Lift related... as long as I'm reading my own tutorials not as Epic did - they did not read their own manuals...
@SilverSound - UScript allows writing conditional Nodes and amazingly they can be compiled and used - HuntNode is a valid evidence of a new stuff which works properly, here is not even involved any EditActor and neither smarter "consolecommands", with other words is more than simple - word "simple" sounds even too complex for this task.
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Re: Aerial MH Hunt Sample

Postby nogardilaref » Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:14 am

sektor2111 wrote:
papercoffee wrote:But how can a bot be triggered to use a jet?
Oh well that's Jet code which... their coders seems to not care, I'm able to setup navigation, the other job probably will require some "JBot", as Default Bot uses ImpactHammer :| .
Such code was not in attention because aerial navigation was "impossible to do" - myth destroyed and buried.
If they do not care about this task I'll use this way when I'll need it in My-Level-s. Purpose of topic was to show that aerial Navigation is DOABLE bringing Evidence.

I am just going to add that these jets are adapted from SLV code (Strangelove mod), which does happen to have aerial bot support and I have seen it working on servers back in the day.
The mod had special nodes for aerial pathing, although while bots would drive the SLV, they drove it like a granny. :lol2: (but it worked)

However, when it comes to jets, a lot of code was added and modified without any regard for bot support indeed, as by then the jets servers were popular enough to not need bots in the first place, so almost no one really bothered.
I only know one guy who did care about it at one point though, but I don't remember how successful he was with it (I think it actually worked quite well back then iirc).
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Re: Aerial MH Hunt Sample

Postby ShaiHulud » Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:03 pm

sektor2111 wrote:As we know so far Editor will link nodes in a water zone doesn't matter how they are located


Nice. That'll come in handy for a map that I've had problems pathing recently, and much simpler than other solutions I was contemplating.
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Re: Aerial MH Hunt Sample

Postby sektor2111 » Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:15 am

Several things just need another deal - this is one sample.

Other sample is some "deviation" which I did in Editor; it was on purpose to get rid of a crapped HOM in Sk_Godz created by some of those "super duper" builders - by community, no worries. When I was almost to quit working there, I had a sudden recall about something which I could see in some sample map so I went more far:
reversal.PNG
I simply turned it up side down at once with SkyZoneInfo actor so in game it do looks normal... as shown in final map.
Whoever is saying that brush rotations are not healthy - IS LYING - at a moment BSP building do seems to get a sort of refresh improving the build and is not the single situation where this way is a solution - using normal angles not free rotations. In this map I used BSP build a bit scaled up and map is pretty much fine - at least by playing it 40+ times I did not see major problems or probably I need some glasses...
Else in above map I could use some "extra-pathing" tweaks - doors zone was initially developing loop spots annoying me at extremes, this time I took in account a bit of "recommendations of Editor" pretty closer to internal algorithm used in paths build - it do works a bit in a cube :loool: , depending on how smart are items located. Poor Scout guy...

Now I'm thinking to write some adds in a future MHBotyMan5 - dual operating - checking, using Bot navigation by touching PathNodes and free movement for distant type checking, as it is in current v4... I'm not sure if worth efforts but... I'll see...
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Re: Aerial MH Hunt Sample

Postby Red_Fist » Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:27 pm

I was looking for the code of the flying pathnodes in UT2004, nothing there, but my guess is they tie it into "flying" for physics.
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Re: Aerial MH Hunt Sample

Postby sektor2111 » Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:48 pm

Probably in 2004 some classes have adds in natives which are setting up reachspecs. I understand a bit these things but here I was counting on something, shhht don't tell to anyone that I was using Manta's swimming capability. I'll bet here nodes have swimming specs, Bot can swim as well so these pawns are fooled to follow those routes - I don't know exactly if engine blocks them because there is no water in spot, but... A small CTF map which I did for another probing - a sort of half BT type action was operational and challenging. UE1 at pathing is a bit poor - ground units have support, water units as well, aerial units... eh... UScript must be used...

Aside, let me show you a bit of code from some node located in whatever aerial route:
Code: Select all
class FlyNodeCond expands NavigationPoint;

event PostBeginPlay()
{
     bSpecialCost=True;
}

event int SpecialCost(Pawn Seeker)
{
     if ( Seeker == None || Seeker.bDeleteMe )
          return 100000000;
     else
     {
          if (Seeker.bCanFly)
               return 0; //Allow pilots LOL
          else
               return 100000000;
     }
     return 100000000;
}
Of course we can expand things for humans - showing a warning or... evil physics assigned suddenly - options are a lot. Last time I was tweaking TranslocStart different, when Player was about to use that point and had Translocator it was switching it automatically - it's probably another cycles load but... it worked.
Another thing in account is SpecialHandling used by some nodes. That one is called right before stepping to the point - tell at pawn to jump, to switch weapon, to taunt, etc and even to suffer a depression committing a suicide if doesn't have handling stuff. Options are... many.
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Re: Aerial MH Hunt Sample

Postby papercoffee » Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:14 pm

sektor2111 wrote:tell at pawn to jump, to switch weapon, to taunt, etc and even to suffer a depression committing a suicide if doesn't have handling stuff. Options are... many.

To switch weapon and shoot alt-fire? Is this possible?
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