CTF-CMC-Kullrena (FINAL)

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Re: CTF-CMC-Kullrena (RC1)

Postby nogardilaref » Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:58 am

Release candidate 1 released (first post updated).

Download: http://www.mediafire.com/file/th0m9yy2a ... na-RC1.zip

Change log: (since BETA)
- fixed crooked BSP parts
- bot pathing greatly improved
* they now use specific defense and ambush points
* they use the elevator properly, and use the alternate paths times to times, surprising the enemy
* they also use the top area for defense times to times
* although they may still get stuck sometimes, they do so much less often
* they get down to the redeemer from the arena area just fine
- added a separate "lite" map version, stripped down from some details and effects for increased performance

This one is the one potentially meant for the final pack, and it has been polished to the best of my ability, in conjunction with the little time I had to spare on this.
Therefore, in its current state is a fully playable and fully AI capable map.

Due to the visual details causing a bit of a problem performance-wise, there's the normal version of the map, with the same performance as before, and there's also a "lite" version of the map, which is significantly faster, at the expense of being stripped down from some effects and even from some BSP itself.
It's possible to make a "lite-er" version still, but this would be by removing other BSP parts, other effects, and the overall decoration as well, to the point where it would look like a WIP again rather than a full map.

Since this is an RC, it means that it's still open to do some small fixing here and there if needed, however if it's a small BSP hiccup somewhere, allow me to say that I am not going to solve it if you find one. Stabilizing the BSP to the current point took a very long time from me, more than bot pathing, lighting or anything else, and I am not up to through it again, sorry.
But anything else, might be fix-able, so yeah, feel free to report. :)

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Re: CTF-CMC-Kullrena (RC1)

Postby sektor2111 » Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:19 am

Downloaded and quickly checked...
nogardilaref wrote:although they may still get stuck sometimes, they do so much less often

If I will fall in love by this map and I will plan it for my playground, first I'll write a pathing patcher.
What is doable is exactly what I was saying tens of times and Polge mentioned these as well. Do not add any pathnode around other navigationpoint actors which can substitute a PathNode - it+s only waste of time and it does damage rather than helping paths processing. Other spots have also have an useless load. I will need to remove paths from those nodes and to push them into the void. I'll look for BSP holes if exist and/or HOM effects.

Edit: Game-Play mode check
Any version does Lags on slow machines reacting pretty much in the same way. Not sure if I'll use it too soon.
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Re: CTF-CMC-Kullrena (RC1)

Postby Aldebaran » Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:48 pm

I played the RC1 lite version online and it's smoother here now than the beta version. In the bottom area it is still little bit slower but it can be played and it made much fun. For me the map is ok.
Last edited by Aldebaran on Sun Dec 10, 2017 3:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: CTF-CMC-Kullrena (RC1)

Postby nogardilaref » Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:22 pm

Yeah, I will probably make a lite-er version today. There are still a couple of things I can remove to increase the speed a bit more.

As for the pathing, I actually tried to only add the strictly needed nodes (even tested how far they could be apart to "connect"), although even so I added in a few extra ones in a few areas just so it was a little bit more fluid.
It has still a few problems though. Bots are able to get the UDamage and Shieldbelt without a problem underground sometimes, and other times they just fall into the lava. It's a "problem", but it's so funny to watch what is essentially what you would actually expect from actual players miscalculating their jump, that I will keep it as it is. :mrgreen:
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Re: CTF-CMC-Kullrena (RC2)

Postby nogardilaref » Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:20 pm

Release candidate 2 released (first post updated).

Download: http://www.mediafire.com/file/osot19ykr ... na-RC2.zip

Change log: (since RC1)
- fixed screenshots (unaffected by quality settings)
- made the lite version even lite-er for increased performance
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Re: CTF-CMC-Kullrena (RC2)

Postby Teuch » Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:49 pm

Wow very insane map :tu: :gj:

Very good looking !

:satan:


Of course it lags a little, for me, OpenGL + fine settings; I have not tried D3D(9). The lite version runs better, but stay a bit "laggy"

Not sure the meshes cause it a lot, it's general.


I think belt in place of invis would be better! Otherwise, perfect work!

The map is loaded on my exotic server :rock:
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Re: CTF-CMC-Kullrena (RC2)

Postby sektor2111 » Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:41 am

Because I did not see any performance improved here. I've done another test, in a frame with some 700+ polys, somewhere in a spawn spot frame rendering took 120-140 ms which means 1000/120 = 8 FPS which I will never use, and as a cherry on cake I still don't see a purpose for PathNode64 PathNode67 and the rest of stuff placed like that, so I won't look for other such ones.
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Re: CTF-CMC-Kullrena (RC2)

Postby nogardilaref » Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:03 pm

I will check the path nodes you mentioned later on... but on the 8fps stuff... are you trying to run this map on a potato?

What kind of hardware specs are you running this on? Because although the map doesn't have a great performance, even the normal version was never that bad at all, to me at least.
To me the normal version only gets down to 25~30fps on the worst possible spots of the map, while the lite gives me a rather solid 60fps, except in a few specific places and angles in which it may drop to 45~50fps.
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Re: CTF-CMC-Kullrena (RC2)

Postby Teuch » Thu Nov 23, 2017 6:40 pm

It's a lot better in D3D(9) (basic settings)
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Re: CTF-CMC-Kullrena (RC2)

Postby sektor2111 » Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:37 pm

So everyone seeing lags here has potatoes ? Interesting conclusion...
However... this is completely wrong. We are using tomatoes not potatoes. I changed machine on purpose, where I was able to play all stock maps properly + other 500 "MH maps" with no flaws except some of those genius type maps where majority of servers were crashing as a default carrot-type servers running onion stuff... ooopsy - too much beer in the garden...
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Re: CTF-CMC-Kullrena (RC2)

Postby nogardilaref » Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:44 pm

As for the pathnodes you referred, I just checked and yeah, they're right next to a player start (and aren't the only ones)... I am not sure what happened there.
The map is completely split by groups, so I could hide 90% of the map while I worked on certain areas specifically (otherwise it would be quite hard).
So I probably added the nodes or the player starts when one or the other were hidden and didn't notice how close they were to each other.
Good catch, thanks. :tu:

As for the framerate, if you actually check the whole topic from the moment I first released this map, although most reported a loss in the framerate, it was always around the values I just posted, to not mention those who had no issues at all.
You were the very first one to report such a low framerate, so please do not pretend like everyone is reporting the same issue as you, because that's simply clearly not true at all.

I am aware that it has framerate problems nonetheless though, hence creating a lite version, but not as bad as you're reporting now.

Having that said, this is not a map for potatoes. It does have a relatively high poly count, and despite the heavy usage of semi-solids to avoid too many cuts around (over 1300, many of them merged together to boot), the map still ended having over half the limit of nodes you can have in this engine (over 33000), and all packed in a small 4096^3 volume.
So comparing it with stock maps, or even most MH maps which generally do not even begin to compare in terms of stats like this alone, is quite unfair to say at the very least.
MH maps which come close to these numbers aren't condensed in such a small area to begin with, they're spread out.

Hence, if you're expecting to run this on a Pentium III, with the default renderer no less, you can just forget it, that's the definition of a potato computer nowadays, and nowadays you cannot even properly use a computer like that to browse the web without major lag.
If I had targeted my map to systems like those, I would be done with the map in a couple of days, way before the deadline, if you get what I mean.
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Re: CTF-CMC-Kullrena (FINAL)

Postby nogardilaref » Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:26 pm

Final version released, and first post updated.

From here no further releases will be made, so whether or not something is broken, will either remain that way, or feel free to release new fixed versions yourselves. :)
This final version is almost identical to RC2, the only difference being that I deleted the 4 extra pathnodes present near playerstarts doing nothing (thanks Sektor for the report :) ).

Download: http://www.mediafire.com/file/qwej3lf48 ... llrena.zip

Permissions:
Anyone is free to modify and release new versions of all the content present here, or even extract anything from it, as long as a different filename is used to avoid file mismatches in servers, such as "CTF-CMC-Kullrena-MyVersion" for example, thus there is no need to contact me if such is intended.
Credits are also nice, but not strictly needed.

Description:
This arena is set in a chaotic, cloudy and rainy world, where even the sunlight barely manages to reach the surface at all, and is where the Chaos champions come to settle the score once and for all.
Strategy or brute force, stealth or blowing everything up, direct approach or surprise attack, it's completely up to you on how you play it to achieve victory.

Notes:
This release consists in two variations of the same map:
- the original, CTF-CMC-Kullrena;
- the lite version, CTF-CMC-Kullrena-Lite, which is stripped down from a lot of the visual detail present in the original, so that, unlike the original, it's actually playable with little to no performance issues.
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Re: CTF-CMC-Kullrena (FINAL)

Postby sektor2111 » Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:14 pm

If troubles will occur probably It won't be needed editing. If geometry is OK the rest can be fixed:
- lift speed, delay, custom lift jumpers for A.I.;
- paths removal or adds;
- items missing, if might fall from map or such.
All these are doable in run-time, I repeat, IF ARE needed, else map can stay untouched if do runs flawless.
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