CTF-CMC-Kullrena (FINAL)

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SilverSound
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Re: CTF-CMC-Kullrena (PRE-ALPHA)

Post by SilverSound »

Dood! I can't wait to play the finished version of this map.

I'll do a more performance orientated test soon. My rig is really good though, not sure you will find much of an issue there.

The real issue is if the engine can handle this map ok.
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Re: CTF-CMC-Kullrena (PRE-ALPHA)

Post by EvilGrins »

Without pathing the map is pretty but not too active, so I added an element that didn't need pathing to get around:
Image

It was more fun, but not as helpful as I hoped.
2nd look
As stated, this map is beautiful:
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But there's not a lot of weapons in there, with 1 notable exception:
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As the map is for ChaosUT, that'd be primarily turrets or vortexes.

It's cool the decorations are solid enough to stand on:
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I'm hoping now that the contest is over, unburdened by the time limit, you will add bot pathing. Because without it, map isn't so active without other human players:
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Though it's a tad more active on my edit:
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Which isn't to say it wasn't entirely un-challenging. The warlords do periodically grab the other team's flag!
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Re: CTF-CMC-Kullrena (PRE-ALPHA)

Post by Spectra »

nogardilaref wrote:Quick question: for those who tried out the map, how bad was the performance in the underground area for you (the one with the lava)?
My laptop has only integrated graphics: Intel HD 4600. Performance wise there was more FPS drop like 20 FPS especially in lava area. Map is very nice, but way too much coronas.

I suggest to add one huge blockall on the top if you don't want player to exploit it or use it for hiding purpose, etc.
Also I found this BSP cut.
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Re: CTF-CMC-Kullrena (PRE-ALPHA)

Post by nogardilaref »

Yes, the finished version of the map will have all lighting and BSP issues fixed, as well as full bot pathing. I meant to do so from the start. :D
And yes, I know about that BSP error, as well as countless others (most of them originated in the alpha build itself though), but thanks for the report. :tu:
JackGriffin wrote:I noticed no impact, playthrough was smooth. My system is a low-to midrange setup with a dedicated video card. If you want I can test it on my laptop that is a normal budget deal with integrated graphics?
Yeah, it seems that the problem is mostly with integrated graphics. However, I have a rather high-end laptop which I bought this year (a MSI), and I can run pretty much anything on that thing, maxed out, without issues.
But with UT, even when I force the dedicated GPU (an nVidia GTX1060), I get the exact same performance as with the integrated card, despite the system reporting that the dedicated one is being used.
I believe there's something wired in this machine, hardware or software-wise, which with this game specifically, I am still getting bottlenecked by the integrated GPU somehow, and I still didn't figure it out.

Thanks for your input, then I think I will just probably release 2 versions of the map: the normal one with everything, and a low-end one (LE) without the stuff that causes performance issues on lower-end machines.
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Re: CTF-CMC-Kullrena (BETA)

Post by nogardilaref »

Beta version released (first post updated).

Here's a copy of the first post for the lazy ones: :)

Author: nogardilaref
Date: 2017-10-25
Description: Capture the Flag map, Chaos-themed, beta version.

Download: http://www.mediafire.com/file/a7xdp431d ... a-BETA.zip

Change log (since ALPHA):
- fixed 98% of the BSP errors
- fixed 90% of the lighting problems (especially the lava)
- improved overall lighting a bit
- improved ambient sounds
- improved coronas (no need for sunglasses anymore)
- improved rain effects on the floor
- fixed S3TC? (untested)
- added weapons and others pickups
- added full bot pathing

Known issues:
- performance is still bad, especially in the underground area
- a few lighting bugs are still around
- crooked BSP in a specific place (not easily noticeable, but once you do...)
- the bot pathing has some severe problems, especially around the elevators
- missing bot strategical pathing, such as defense and ambush points

Screenshots:

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

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Last edited by nogardilaref on Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: CTF-CMC-Kullrena (BETA)

Post by Aldebaran »

Nice work, nogardilaref :tu:

Here are the good news: I played the beta version of the map four times and it did not crash. Also I used the S3TC textures without problems. I like the layout very much.

The bad news is that the graphic lags here. The map is playable but it is not so fluently as all of the other CTF maps I have installed. Playing the map with an slower integrated Intel card it lags again much more and makes not much fun then.
The bots aren't that bad, but sometimes it seems they don't attack and stay in their base.

So perhaps it would be fine - as you already mentioned - to release a second map version with less fog or what causes the lag for lower end cards. Perhaps the structure of the map is too complex and it is not the fog? I don't know...

I am excited to play the end version :-)
Last edited by Aldebaran on Sun Dec 10, 2017 3:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: CTF-CMC-Kullrena (BETA)

Post by nogardilaref »

Thanks for testing it out. :tu:

The main problem with this map is really its performance, but unfortunately it cannot be improved any further while keeping the map as it is (visually speaking).
In the meanwhile I even downloaded well performing great detailed maps to check if I was doing something wrong, and I noticed that actually most of these maps keep their shapes extremely simple and in smaller areas, and instead make good usage of custom high detailed textures in most cases, while in this map I used pretty much standard textures alone and relied on the BSP itself and some specific texture alignment to do the needed details.

The performance drop is not only from the fog/smoke itself, although it does play a big role in that, even if I remove them (you can remove them with "killall csmcxsmokegen" during gameplay) the framerate is still not really "playable", due to the amount of polys and nodes generated by the BSP itself.
I tried to keep it balanced by using a lot of semi-solids from the start, but it didn't suffice.

So what I am going to do once I manage to release an RC version, is to actually have 2 versions of this map: the normal one, meant for high-end machines with all the visuals this map has to offer, and a lite one with the smoke/fog removed, as well stripped down from some BSP to become perfectly playable, such as the side grids underground and perhaps the chains from the ceiling as well.

As for some bots standing near the flag, yeah, that's because they're defending, but since I didn't actually add defense points yet for them, they get all camped near the flag, instead of being outside.
This will be sorted out in the RC, although I will only work in the RC version probably next Saturday (going to take a break from this).
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Re: CTF-CMC-Kullrena (BETA)

Post by Terraniux »

bump - how is it going , the meanwhile progress. Any updates for the mappack?
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Re: CTF-CMC-Kullrena (BETA)

Post by nogardilaref »

Nope.
I was about to work on this yesterday, then I rescheduled it for today, but no dice, I simply had slightly more important things to do, and these have been particularly busy weeks for me.

I am not very worried though, this beta is fully "playable" nonetheless, and most of the problems it had are gone.
It may still have a few problems, which I intend to mostly fix in one way or another later on (could be tomorrow, could be next weekend, idk), but I am in no particular rush, and for the mappack itself I actually think this release might be good enough, especially because it doesn't look like many maps are being polished right now either, and I am certainly not going to be one of the only 2 or 3 people melting themselves over concerned about polishing everything up for the mappack itself.

I might still give it a kick tomorrow, if I have any time and patience that is.
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Re: CTF-CMC-Kullrena (BETA)

Post by EvilGrins »

So... only bad point I've seen is not fixable, really. All maps have spots where if bots get knocked into them they can't get out:
Image

I tend to play CTF with a specific redeemer that cleared the bot outta there... in a very gibby sort of way.

- Map is great with bot support, well balanced.
- Didn't run into any slow down issues on the ground floor, meaning you either fixed it or my system is amazing.
- Loving it quite a bit.

I may do an edit to test different music. Something a bit faster and more intense, better suited to a semi-close quartered CTF match.
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Re: CTF-CMC-Kullrena (BETA)

Post by Aldebaran »

EvilGrins wrote:Didn't run into any slow down issues on the ground floor, meaning you either fixed it or my system is amazing.
What screen resolution do you use? Your screenshots shows the older screen format so I think you don't use 1920x1080 which is standard for desktop computers today?
Last edited by Aldebaran on Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: CTF-CMC-Kullrena (BETA)

Post by nogardilaref »

Yeah, you seem to be using a really low resolution, so probably the map will perform without issues at such resolution.
For instance, I use full HD resolution (the usual 1920x1080) and it lags a bit for me.
EvilGrins wrote:So... only bad point I've seen is not fixable, really. All maps have spots where if bots get knocked into them they can't get out
Nice catch. Although I actually think I can fix that, but just adding a couple of path nodes there.
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Re: CTF-CMC-Kullrena (BETA)

Post by EvilGrins »

Aldebaran wrote:What screen resolution do you use? Your screenshots shows the older screen format so I think you don't use 1920x1080 which is standard for desktop computers today?
My computer's resolution is WAY UP there, but I tend to play UT at 800x600.

It's mainly as I take so many screenshots which I save in .png format. Much larger takes up too much room.
nogardilaref wrote:Nice catch. Although I actually think I can fix that, but just adding a couple of path nodes there.
I often test with bots only, to test bot-pathing, so it was an easy find.

Doesn't need to be fixed, but very cool if you chose to.
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Re: CTF-CMC-Kullrena (BETA)

Post by EvilGrins »

32 players might be a bit of an overestimate.

Ran the map with 18 bots and 2 warlords, it was a bit cramped... but fun.
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Re: CTF-CMC-Kullrena (BETA)

Post by nogardilaref »

The theme was Chaos, so it's meant to be rather chaotic. :tongue: :mrgreen:
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