Templar CHAOS Titans

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EvilGrins
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Templar CHAOS Titans

Post by EvilGrins » Thu Sep 28, 2017 3:27 am

Back when ChaosUT 1st came out I didn't know how to edit maps, but now I do. With a full version available to me, I decided to setup one of my UTDMT CTF edits so it could play with Chaos weapons even if the mutator wasn't running. Also to use only Chaos gear, as the mutator doesn't switch all of the normal UT weapons:
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Although I didn't need to put all the weapons on the map. Funny thing about how it works is if you've got the PoisonCrossbow and the ExplodingCrossbow, somehow you also have the normal Crossbow even if it isn't anywhere on the map... although I think I did leave one on there for both teams. Same thing works with the Claw.

Enjoy · http://www.mediafire.com/file/pgi39rc71 ... Titans.zip

You will need to download this too for the map to work · http://files.chaoticdreams.org/Chaos/Ch ... onumod.zip

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Re: Templar CHAOS Titans

Post by OjitroC » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:19 am

Cool edit! Well done with the ammo and weapon placement - this map is the first in over a dozen maps designed for ChaosUT that I have played where nothing has fallen out of the world or been buried in the floor/ground.
EvilGrins wrote: Funny thing about how it works is if you've got the PoisonCrossbow and the ExplodingCrossbow, somehow you also have the normal Crossbow even if it isn't anywhere on the map... ... Same thing works with the Claw.
If you pick up, say, the ExplodingCrossbow and then pick up normal arrows, the Crossbow will fire both - so you only need one Crossbow of any type and all three arrow packs to have the complete set of crossbows, as it were. If you pick up the ExplodingCrossbow and don't pick up any other arrow pack, you just have the ExplodingCrossbow.

The thing with the Claw(s) in that map is that it doesn't actually use the FlakAmmo you have placed there. I think you need to check the Ammo type in the default properties of the Claws in the map.

The other thing with the Claw is that if one picks up the two projectile firing versions in the map (the Flak primary and alt fire version and the stick proxy primary fire and grenade alt fire version) and fire off the ammo in one version, the ammo in the other version goes down at the same rate - so fire off all the proxies and there will be no flak shells left to fire.

Some odd log entries to do with the UTDMT - largely self explantory but I killed Saint Bo and then got all these odd lines
Spoiler
Show
ScriptLog: UTDMT.UTDMT:Died : I (Saint Bo) was killed by !Masked_Marvellette!
ScriptLog: UTDMT.UTDMT:Killed : I (Saint Gum) killed Saint Bo
ScriptLog: UTDMT.UTDMT:Killed : I (Saint Jumba) killed Saint Bo
ScriptLog: UTDMT.UTDMT:Killed : I (Saint Bo) killed Saint Bo
ScriptLog: UTDMT.UTDMT:Killed : I (Saint Laya) killed Saint Bo
ScriptWarning: UTDMT CTF-TemplarChaosTitans.UTDMT3 (Function UTDMT.UTDMT.Killed:0045) Accessed None
ScriptLog: UTDMT.UTDMT:Killed : I (Saint Gum) killed
ScriptWarning: UTDMT CTF-TemplarChaosTitans.UTDMT2 (Function UTDMT.UTDMT.Killed:0045) Accessed None
ScriptLog: UTDMT.UTDMT:Killed : I (Saint Jumba) killed
ScriptWarning: UTDMT CTF-TemplarChaosTitans.UTDMT1 (Function UTDMT.UTDMT.Killed:0045) Accessed None
ScriptLog: UTDMT.UTDMT:Killed : I (Saint Bo) killed
ScriptWarning: UTDMT CTF-TemplarChaosTitans.UTDMT0 (Function UTDMT.UTDMT.Killed:0045) Accessed None
ScriptLog: UTDMT.UTDMT:Killed : I (Saint Laya) killed
ScriptWarning: UTDMT CTF-TemplarChaosTitans.UTDMT3 (Function UTDMT.UTDMT.Killed:0045) Accessed None
XC_UCC: === Last 8 lines repeat 1 times

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Re: Templar CHAOS Titans

Post by EvilGrins » Thu Sep 28, 2017 5:10 pm

OjitroC wrote:Cool edit!
Thanks!
OjitroC wrote:Well done with the ammo and weapon placement - this map is the first in over a dozen maps designed for ChaosUT that I have played where nothing has fallen out of the world or been buried in the floor/ground.
That was aggravating as all get out. Even though i could adjust the relative heights of everything placed, it took awhile to work out what needed it and what didn't.
OjitroC wrote:The thing with the Claw(s) in that map is that it doesn't actually use the FlakAmmo you have placed there.
I removed all the FlakAmmo in favor of the ch_FlakAmmo. Kinda like how I put a ch_WarheadLauncher on there too... which doesn't seem any different than a normal one.

In hindsight, I'm thinking everything under Inventory that starts with a ch_ might be the replacement items, things that get replaced.

It's cool either way. One of the things I love about the original Templar map is there's not too much ammo all over, so you've gotta fight somewhat creatively or you could run out quick as the map is huge.
OjitroC wrote:Some odd log entries to do with the UTDMT - largely self explantory but I killed Saint Bo and then got all these odd lines
That vaguely reminds me of the 1st Terminator movie, where you can see the option list of what he might say before he chooses one.
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Re: Templar CHAOS Titans

Post by OjitroC » Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:28 pm

EvilGrins wrote: In hindsight, I'm thinking everything under Inventory that starts with a ch_ might be the replacement items, things that get replaced.
Using the ChaosUT main mutator, the FlakAmmo in the map is useable by the Claw - without the mutator, the ch_flakammo doesn't get used as the Claw uses Botpack.FlakAmmo.

Interestingly, you've used an undocumented version of the Flak2 - the Flak2Grenade - it's not mentioned in the Chaos manual nor have I seen it used in any other Chaos map - TBH I didn't know it existed.

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Re: Templar CHAOS Titans

Post by Dr.Flay » Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:52 pm

There is 1 bow, and multiple ammo.
The alternate versions of the weapons are so the weapon selection shows a difference.
Same for the sniper rifle. There is 1 rifle and 2 ammo types, but the display shows RPB Rifle.

Yes if you actually make a CUT map and put the items in, then they won't fall out of the world because they are positioned correctly.
As said before the way to solve that issue is to leave a gap under regular pickups, so that when swapped in any other mod it allows for the differences in sizes.

*sigh* Now once more for good measure, as I see my repeated instructions are still being ignored.
Remember that if you map with the Chaos pickups you should use the ??-CUT_?? prefix so they do not get confused with regular maps.
CTF-CUT_TemplarChaosTitans NOT CTF-TemplarChaosTitans

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Re: Templar CHAOS Titans

Post by OjitroC » Thu Sep 28, 2017 7:56 pm

Dr.Flay wrote:There is 1 bow, and multiple ammo.
The alternate versions of the weapons are so the weapon selection shows a difference.
Same for the sniper rifle. There is 1 rifle and 2 ammo types, but the display shows RPB Rifle.
Sorry but that is not correct - have a look at EG's map or at ChaosUT.u in UEd or UTPT and you will see multiple versions of all the Chaos weapons that use different ammo types (there are three distinct, separate crossbows, for example, and EG has placed each of these in the map so one can just pick up an explosive crossbow with explosive arrows - you can then go on to avoid picking up any of the other two arrow packs and will still have just an explosive crossbow - of course, if you want poison arrows, you can pick them up and the crossbow will fire both arrow types).

If you look carefully at the glass in the scope of the sniper rifles, you will see that the colour of the glass in the RPB differs from that in the normal Chaos sniper rifle - plus they have different colour sniper dots. Not sure what you mean by "the display shows RPB Rifle".
Dr.Flay wrote:Yes if you actually make a CUT map and put the items in, then they won't fall out of the world because they are positioned correctly.
Yes, sometimes, if the right type of ammo is used and the map contains exclusively Chaos stuff (it is not intended that ChaosUT should cycle the weapons and ammo). However, in the more than a dozen CUT maps I have played and/or looked at in UEd, there is a confusing mish-mash of default UT and ChaosUT (normal and the ch_ prefixed version of default UT stuff) weapons and ammo placed in the maps - in all these maps some ammo (UT or Chaos) falls out of the world or is buried in the floor. As an example, I just played DM-CUT_WeaponsOfChaos with the ChaosUT main mutator and a proxybox and some of the arrow packs fell out of the world, plus some sniper ammo was buried in the ground - playing this map without the ChaosUT main mutator results in a mixture of UT and Chaos Weapons (UT minigun, Shock RIfle and sniper rifle with Chaos Claw, proxies, crossbows and sniper rifles, etc) but no ammo falls out of the world. Again this map is an example of individual crossbows placed in a map - explosive and normal crossbows this time.

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Re: Templar CHAOS Titans

Post by EvilGrins » Fri Sep 29, 2017 2:34 am

OjitroC wrote:Not sure what you mean by "the display shows RPB Rifle"
Think he meant the weapons display on the bottom of the HUD, though it does change depending on which sniper rifle you're using.
Dr.Flay wrote:Remember that if you map with the Chaos pickups you should use the ??-CUT_?? prefix so they do not get confused with regular maps.
CTF-CUT_TemplarChaosTitans NOT CTF-TemplarChaosTitans
Yeah, medor DM'd me about that... but I didn't see it until after I set the map up for downloads.

If that instruction is part of the recent map contest, I didn't read it as I'm not part of the contest.
Don't think edits of existing maps count for contests, it'd be like cheating if it was.
Dr.Flay wrote:There is 1 bow, and multiple ammo.
The alternate versions of the weapons are so the weapon selection shows a difference.
Same for the sniper rifle. There is 1 rifle and 2 ammo types, but the display shows RPB Rifle.
Not so much.

More evident if you use the Pinata mutator like me. See if you have multiple kinds of the Claw and die, each one is dropped under that mutator, instead of just 1 as with any other kind of weaponpack.

It's great for anyone that decides to raid the area you died from, for all that chaos-swag!
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Re: Templar CHAOS Titans

Post by UnrealGGecko » Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:30 am

The contest prefix is CMC, not CUT

He ment that you should've used the CUT prefix because your edit needs ChaosUT to be installed in order to run the map, to cause less confusion.

CMC maps should only use the decorations and files that came with the mod, but don't need the weapons installed. Hope that makes sence :noidea

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Re: Templar CHAOS Titans

Post by OjitroC » Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:40 am

EvilGrins wrote: Think he meant the weapons display on the bottom of the HUD, though it does change depending on which sniper rifle you're using.
Oh, I see - that's why I didn't get it because, as you say, it does change when switching between sniper rifles/ammo (the flak icon changes in a similar way as well).

Your map edit is one of the few pure CUT_ maps in that it can be played either with or without the main ChaosUT mutator running and there will only be Chaos weapons and ammo in the map. Most of the other CUT_ maps, even the 'official' Chaos maps, are hybrids.

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Re: Templar CHAOS Titans

Post by papercoffee » Fri Sep 29, 2017 2:13 pm

Of course there are different versions of the "same" weapon ...but the intention was to give the illusion that you have only one weapon and different ammo types. That's why you always get default arrows with your crossbow.
Because you won't pick up a different CB in default Chaos play, but just the ammo. Explosive arrows activate the explosive-CB in your roster. When you switch to it it looks like your player avatar is changing the ammo.
And when you get killed this version will be dropped and not the default CB. But to keep the illusion of only one weapon are also default arrows in the explosive-CB.

We made the same with the Canopener in Food Fight... in reality are there three versions of the start weapon. Jack/gopostal could hid it better. That's all... magic spoiled.

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Re: Templar CHAOS Titans

Post by OjitroC » Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:11 pm

papercoffee wrote:...but the intention was to give the illusion that you have only one weapon and different ammo types..
I realise that of course but it is an 'illusion' that there is only one weapon with different ammo types and not a fact.
papercoffee wrote: ... Because you won't pick up a different CB in default Chaos play, but just the ammo.
That's going to depend on the individual map, on whether or not the ChaosUT mutator is running and on what default Chaos play actually is. Playing with the ChaosUT main mutator running in an ordinary DM map with default UT weapons and ammo place in the map - no you won't pick up a different crossbow - but, as I said earlier, some 'official' CUT_ maps have the separate versions of the multi-ammo weapons placed individually in the map.

I'm still interested as to why the Flak2Grenade was not mentioned in the Chaos Manual or other help files.

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Re: Templar CHAOS Titans

Post by papercoffee » Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:43 pm

OjitroC wrote:
papercoffee wrote:...but the intention was to give the illusion that you have only one weapon and different ammo types..
I realise that of course but it is an 'illusion' that there is only one weapon with different ammo types and not a fact.
Yes, you are right.
It's how it's done in UT.


Interesting is that only two weapons exists in default UT which have a hidden reload animation which could be used to hide any ammo type switch. But no one did this.

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Re: Templar CHAOS Titans

Post by OjitroC » Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:43 pm

papercoffee wrote: Interesting is that only two weapons exists in default UT which have a hidden reload animation which could be used to hide any ammo type switch. But no one did this.
The Enforcer is one? Wormbo's Enhanced Items mod has an option to make it reloadable.

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Re: Templar CHAOS Titans

Post by papercoffee » Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:29 pm

OjitroC wrote:
papercoffee wrote: Interesting is that only two weapons exists in default UT which have a hidden reload animation which could be used to hide any ammo type switch. But no one did this.
The Enforcer is one? Wormbo's Enhanced Items mod has an option to make it reloadable.
And the Pulse Rifle.

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