Botpathing contest ?

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Re: Botpathing contest ?

Postby nogardilaref » Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:38 am

@sektor2111: The thing is, one thing is to allow stuff which is already scripted and available in a common package, another thing is to allow the contenders to actually do custom coding.
I personally think the former is OK, but the latter would just resume to code vs code, rather than bot pathing.

After all, at least for some people around here, it's not hard to have a bot do everything exactly as you want, to the point of not needing any pathing at all to beat a map.
Anyway, I am not going to participate at all, so consider these just my 2 cents on the overall discussion.
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Re: Botpathing contest ?

Postby Red_Fist » Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:53 am

It's almost like you need a perfect testmap built for bots, like jump heights and collision radius considerations, or distance, all done official to UU units with bot specs.
But I suppose a lot of maps, small maps, could be ok.

And is way off point, it's not making a bot finish, it's making it get through as fast as it can with the challenge of using only stock bots.
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Re: Botpathing contest ?

Postby sektor2111 » Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:11 am

Red_Fist wrote:my stock bots are some bad ass mofo's :P My bots will kill your mutant lame no mind of their own fake bots.
That's your dream, dude. Default Bot always need some extra stuff or else is getting lost pretty quickly (in case you have failed Arden problems + another bunch of such "options" so get your pills before starting such a session). Some people here did not do other Bots because of insomnia. When something goes in crap with your super duper stock morons don't ask support, just have fun around - and I can close speech about EPIC garbage as long as it took me a long time battle until I have realized that stock is not an answer for multiple reasons. So good luck in advance with Bot Contest participation, last time I could see a lot of broken stuff which you did for default Bot, do you need a memory refresh ? Sure: Electrolyte ? That DM conversion ? That another by EA_Elemental "fix" ? If future works are about to be done in the same way then thanks but I'm fine with what I do, mentioning that majority of my sh!t do works with default Bot too - that 3072 included as a direct sample and another memory refresh, Sk_Godz, Sk_BattlingLottery have all Bot support OPERATIONAL. Now who's the chicken ?
nogardilaref wrote:After all, at least for some people around here, it's not hard to have a bot do everything exactly as you want, to the point of not needing any pathing at all to beat a map.

Like Higor said, it's not Hard it's just IMPOSSIBLE if map is not entirely map, those big ass UNIZONED, yeah a single zone from begin to end making a hard engine process in dealing with relevance are simply out of duty at DevPath - you can try this using even an I10 CPU system and it won't work I dare to challenge you at a 500$ bet that you cannot do nothing there - not with stock things. it simply goes over all cycles allocated by DevPath's task. Samples are CM-3 like ones, less functional some like a "LongRace" (long dump maybe), whatever PurpleChristmas (bells and colors and bugs), LostInTime_Vx(any version), another CTF-AYeti having a happy build within 24 hours on an old rig machine used in that time and making an USELESS Bot Pathing, and list can continue especially in MH where all new "mappers" were dumping all crap after graduating classes at some mapping forum if I'm not entirely mistaking, and where they actually did not learn to do things correctly (other setup as well not only paths - lousy duplicated packages, etc.) and having the same stupid excuse - I did it for servers (not sure what server) probably those running empty. Last time I was playing ON-LINE for 3 hours and no single player was visiting that server. Other details ? I have a bunch... which awakes me 0 zero Interest for playing in servers.

Edit:As a recall, I have updated repository from my signature because DM-Modolif map was the wrong version (my bad to work on 2 machines, I forgot to update location with the right version). Now it's DM-Modolif_D3. That's a sort of demo around a dual Mover operation: Door and Lift platform in the same time - working with default Bot too :pfff: .
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Re: Botpathing contest ?

Postby Red_Fist » Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:44 am

I just looked at the Crystal 4 map. seems like it could work, some of the BSP is making it difficult as well.
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Re: Botpathing contest ?

Postby sektor2111 » Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:39 pm

I must think at doing some package toward these "holes" from maps. What I've done so far was MyLevel but I think I have to release an U file dedicated to mapping in hard conditions based on Higor's featured links, my pushers, all sort of triggers and various NavigationPoint types - these have to be completed with some skilled map editing - seriously speaking. I had a copy of CM4 unlocking first area based on triggers not DevPath and I have suggested the rest and calling me if something goes evil but I did not see any result so far. I checked bugged zone step by step. You have to get through first door, and DevPath starts working around the middle of that corridor, when almost firsts pupaes are noticing player. All area before that point doesn't move nothing. In a very isolated case a Botz pawn was able to pass (probably has figured a pupae) but later was opening the door using a sort of voodoo magic which I couldn't swallow at all - cheating like. He did not even touched second door's trigger and that grate type was opened like by some ghost infiltrated and moving stuff around it. And that was everything in that map. I think if you do paths in all areas (actually the same zone btw) DevPath will not work not even where it was working before. All I have to say is Good Luck there ! And I will set a reminder for future around this case. In order to accelerate things I can predict a quit in hoping to wrong.
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Re: Botpathing contest ?

Postby Red_Fist » Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:20 am

Terraniux wrote:Want a real challenge? Try my MH-CrystalMine3 map. :mrgreen: Or even better, number 4. Manage to make those bots fully online playable, and you are able to call yourself an expert.

Or maybe I do the challenge myself sometime. No idea. But if people want a challenge I give you 2 options as well.


Almost done CM4, friggen bots cruel, beyond ANY Sekktor code, STOCK bots, be afraid, be very afraid. :P
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Re: Botpathing contest ?

Postby sektor2111 » Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:15 am

That one might work if first area is changed, without special things added.

In other order I was trying another stuff with default Bot and to be honest I found it a waste of time. I got tired of looking at them running at walls so I went back to my MBots. New XC stuff doesn't seems to help when is about MoveTo and not taking in account "CanMoveTo" if an obstruction occurs for a few seconds... which seriously I find not interesting as long as more maps are good for a Bot task. Aside, if too many things are wrapped they will not pass through doors or open doors like in DM-Zeto. Epic was taking their dumbness in account so if Bot will get over-fixed, some maps with such triggers in walls will go broken. That's all with BotPack.Bot, good luck with that and with "single-zone" maps lagging older machines. I'm not a fan of them, I was fixing a simple map with easy load running smoother as oil.

Related to CM3, because "hard-coding" a default PathNet in map seems to not work, I would be interested in attaching paths in run-time injection. But I cannot bet it will work so I do not intend to waste time. Yesterday an old friend was interested to play a bit so I spent a good time with another player and 3 Mbots in a well patched map with 0 flaws - read again - 0 zero flaws which I found more interesting than wasting time with maps with future in fog related to A.I.
Last edited by sektor2111 on Fri Nov 24, 2017 7:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Botpathing contest ?

Postby Red_Fist » Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:47 pm

Almost done with CM4, they tear through the map pretty dang good.
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Re: Botpathing contest ?

Postby Higor » Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:44 pm

The point everyone has appeared to miss:
- Mappers that have XC_Engine loaded in their editor can produce far superior bot paths.

That'll force a lot of ppl to install new stuff in order to be able to be competitive lol.


EDIT2:
Horizontal lifts can be pathed on stock bots... the trick is using AttachMovers :loool: :loool: :loool: :loool:
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Re: Botpathing contest ?

Postby Red_Fist » Fri Nov 24, 2017 12:15 am

I didn't time it, but using slomo 4 they get through pretty dang fast. I changed the end from one big Titan to 6 regular, or maybe scale 2. more health

Thing is, almost the whole map was pathed and is why I went ahead and fixed it, but there was an assortment of problems, but I did this pretty much by the book. Plus used monsterwaypoints since they work perfect for this maps layout.

So I will have to PM Terraniux , he might want to add or change a few things,

It could be suspect to in the end area it could possibly not let the bots and enemies see each other, by chance. I didn't try to ram a total mechanical path for every navigational aspect. but they do find each other pretty ok.

Otherwise they finish map, might be some snag, the big pit with the lift, I blocked from bots no reason to go there at all but if they do they won't get out. I could make it work and then they could at least get out. or maybe a teleporter.
The block monster actor was-is also blocking bots and the settings looked correct.
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Re: Botpathing contest ?

Postby Higor » Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:37 pm

Forget about the contest, this will get things done:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=12571&start=0
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Re: Botpathing contest ?

Postby sektor2111 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:05 pm

CM3 related "troubles".
Higor wrote:MH-CrystalMine has the bug... at the start spots exactly lol.

Cough in here. Map is too big, is a load. But...
If you leave last room without paths and make Bot to end their mission there after "crystal-lakes", you can have somehow support. That area has no creatures anyway. This navigation is possible in this last XCGE - you did something indeed because I feel Devpath working different. In exchange last area was... strange. DevPath was leading me there and then I was on total fog, DevPath has stopped - with BOTS around. I triggered text there and map was finished "manually" not with DevPath.
At this moment I have to finish all tweaking in original map for paths deploy module which will get a launch VIA NavAdder. Also I have one with paths implemented but it looks with the same end issues.
To NOTE: If more paths are added in that zone, more borked will be the start spot - I'm serious here.
By removing paths around end, primary start Location will work perfectly with new XCGE. This second map is not an interesting thing because it will need other stuff for blocking paths (I don't want navigation to do this itself), else Bot in some lower area will try to get lift for teleporter's shortcut area and there is no such button at bottom (not gonna paint a fake button right now), so paths have to be blocked after shortcut created. I used water routes rather than BSP bugged lift-boat and they are swimming properly.

I'm thinking if it's necessary to share pathing stuff when will be ready because I'm not fascinated about how does it work. But all I have to say as conclusion, CM3 might have Bot activity as poor pathed as it has to be - DevPaths should have a minimal load - it's place for optimizing paths by removing some useless InventorySpot actors created. I would like to know a perfect solution for completely removal of them + their reachspecs because I need to speed up DevPath by getting rid of crap created by Edy Goblin at default build. I believe that map modified with paths which I setup will not really work with default Engine... But because XCGE is a default stuff for me, from now I think I will throw map into play-ground - it's a very good looking one after all...
Aside from solving paths, there are other Bot related troubles, a bad trigger which I had to destroy because Bot went retarded at door. Also around lakes there is a ledge which make even MBot to not deal with it all the time, two teleporters are a load in PathNet and are useless, etc.
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Re: Botpathing contest ?

Postby Red_Fist » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:17 am

I sent CM3 to him, no word back, at all.

CM4 is a harder one to do, and more to do. :rock:
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Re: Botpathing contest ?

Postby sektor2111 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:46 am

Red_Fist wrote:I sent CM3 to him, no word back, at all.
Mmmm, exactly, I don't even need other modified map, I'm using ORIGINAL map :mrgreen: , and... around big skaarj and Last Titan will be some ammo, seriously in that spot you cannot fight with spoon and fork against those monsters, weapon load is missing, of course these are not part of path-net and they won't be, to not forget that GRAB is not needed for cheating doors here, Bots are working by default with small tweaks done in run-time. Probably I'll get everything done this week-end.

In exchange CM4 is not suitable for such a task (I've heard some complains at playing ON-LINE from players as well were saying about some BSP problems - this is when you waste to much time with a map). Uni-zoned things are not my goals and neither for DevPath, so you can forget about it. I was tracking how do Editor builds map and then the log file - no comments. For fixing It might be required a lot of work in Editor - probably too much work and I prefer to use that time for other nice things - a lot of other maps can be subject for good tweaks suitable for NavAdder...
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Re: Botpathing contest ?

Postby Terraniux » Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:01 pm

Sorry guys If I did not reply on something you asked me too, what I miss? I still have to test your reworked CM4 redfist.
Haven't had time for it yet.
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