Botpathing request thread

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Berserker
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Re: Botpathing request thread

Post by Berserker » Sun Nov 29, 2020 8:01 pm

sektor2111 wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 12:31 am
First thing is (the pathing request):
CTF-BedroomsFWB_v6-101_rS1586.7z
I need to know if there are noticeable ugly bugs with regard to navigation - old Bot bugs are there no worries (water in stage - we can discuss about it if any other thing will occur... for fixing multiple problems not only one)
Wow, nice work Sektor, thank you for the insight, this gave me a lot of ideas! Honestly, your bot play is quite good and acceptable.

You also asked for a bug report and here is a list of the bugs:
- The main bug that I've noticed is that sometimes the Bots moon jump a lot when they try to hop on both pillows on the bed. How do they jump so high without boots?
- Bots get stuck in the bed kicker in blue base, I think if there is a slight velocity push force for the kicker in Y axis, it will move them a bit out of the kicker and bots will not get stuck for too long.
- Bots ignore the shield belt on top of the kid blocks.
- Bots ignore the big Keg outside on the slides. Bots do take the route outside and go above the slides - they take the Shock rifle but ignore the Keg which is right next to the Shock..


As for the team kickers, they absolutely must be there. The team kickers are not placed with bot play in mind. This map is designed for competitive Siege multiplay and I wanted it to be slightly compatible for offline/online CTF with a proper botpathing. Honestly, if the Bots ignore the Team Kickers, that would be great. First and foremost the most important player of the map will be humans, the Team Kickers are placed with that in mind. Team Kicker actor was coded by Higor, they are quite common in Siege and I use them lot. The map was already tested couple times on 5v5 Siege matches and the team kickers were placed, because it was requested.
Image

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sektor2111
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Re: Botpathing request thread

Post by sektor2111 » Sun Nov 29, 2020 10:07 pm

Boots are near flag, I don't think they jump high without them.

There is A single Exit of Base at flag... I don't get why not escaping on alternate route. I'm not fan of ONE way predictable route and this is CTF not Siege. If you don't like that remove those "Teleporters", add teamkickers back and have fun ambushing carrier in the same place - that's lame. Already I pointed in image what was about TeamKicker - bot carrier was killed unable to leave base - WHY ? Team cheating now ?
In other hand, here translocator can substitute any kicker, all paths can be deviated like that and... for jumping using Impacthammer Bots will have interest for health too... there are more ways to work here at Bots, it's up on what you want. If you want, I can setup another type of Bot Support with more translocations and natural jumps than using any kicker, there are more options here...

For taking shield I did some paths other way, the mostly to find player carrier not on purpose for that shield but you can use a combo if you want - map's paths can be rebuild with Editor's devs, I did not made any manual editing here for being rammed later so you can adjust whatever it's needed. You can even add a jumpy route and Alternatepath making Bot to get shield from time to time like with Big-Keg, else Big-Keg won't be taken anyway if bot has already 199 health so don't count on it that much... Desire for it depends on Bot's health...
Big-Keg it's not their target - Flags are targets. If keg it's not on their way it won't be taken often, I want to see in detail what paths are there for personal curiosity, CTF is not TDM.

Kickers can be adjusted with a bit of velocity on X Y, any of them, if are causing problems for making a fall out of vertical loop-jump.

I played map multiple times and I think for me it's suitable for On-Line games exactly as it is... Oh well, I was defeated playing against Loque and Xan - MBot version...

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Re: Botpathing request thread

Post by Yeoman » Sat Aug 07, 2021 12:28 am

I found this great map by DavidM (who made many great maps such as Pah, Agio, Pahgio) and Tonnberry named DM-Seed.
https://unrealarchive.org/maps/unreal-t ... 148c5.html

Unfortunately it seems that one whole section of the map isn't being used by bots.
Bots don't bother with this shield belt spawn and it seems they ignore the entire area in this side of the map.
Image

Also, they don't seem to bother with this thighpad spawn. It can be reached by jumping out of a couple ledges or with a hammerjump but bots don't bother doing either.
If you look closely at the screenshot, there's also a sniper rifle and some ammo on the rocks in the background, I think those can only be reached with a hammerjump which the bots don't do.
Image

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sektor2111
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Re: Botpathing request thread

Post by sektor2111 » Sat Aug 07, 2021 4:36 am

We cannot blame people in 2001 about missing things. Editor was showing some paths but... there are needed some ReachSpecs which are missing...
NoShield_Seed.PNG
For ShieldBelt let's say that Editor won't help too much. When I'm looking at geometry, perhaps I don't think it's a good idea to rebuild map - because this is needed in plain pathing when it comes to routes over a mover. In 2021 these links are definitely doable very easy. Bot will "smell" this Shieldbelt if mover won't get messy...

ThigPads
NoThigPads_Seed.PNG
Here it's about rushing. Why not having a combo ? I cannot answer... Also it's doable and it has to be tested in all stages: With and Without Translocator.

The rest means "original" bugs...

Code: Select all

LostData: ________________________________________________________________
LostData: ReachSpecs missing from Paths[0-15] 		= 40.
LostData: ReachSpecs missing from upStreamPaths[0-15] 	= 25.
FixedWithSuccess: ReachSpecs successfuly attached 	= 65.
FixFailures: ReachSpecs attaching failures - probably no place = 0.
LostData: ________________________________________________________________
Okay, give me a few time. I mean time for testing because doing paths should not take too long.

Edit: Done ?
DM-Seed_rS966.7z
Changes description:
- More than 30 PathNodes have been deleted - multiple paths in the same place are not having anything logic;
- Swapped places ThigPads with PulseGun as long as ThigPads has a weak desire and it doesn't worth jumping on a box for it (engine calculations for Bots), even if are paths done over box;
- Added routes to SniperRifle but it's the same desire story - Bot not very interested about it - there are more other cute weapons easily reachable;
- Added routes going and coming from wide open top area - Whoever is blown there should come back or being hunted - such areas to me are pretty stupid...
Let me know if are needed more things or is anything else to polish.

Recommending Bots medium skilled and above, HardCore game settings.

Don't look for debris Paths, you won't see anything like that until you will rebuild paths and all goes different.
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Yeoman
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Re: Botpathing request thread

Post by Yeoman » Sat Aug 07, 2021 2:47 pm

:shock: You work fast, and great work too!

I played a couple TDM matches and so far everything works well, the whole map now sees a balanced amount of action.

I spectated a DM match and right away I saw a bot grab the sniper rifle. The bot was actually doing a cheering gesture after sniping another bot, shame I wasn't able to catch her doing the pose :lol:
Image
The bots do go for the sniper rifle very often since I play DM with Weapons Stay off so it's a very important change.

The bots are also pretty good at getting the shield belt on the platform in DM, however in TDM in particular, they still seem to get distracted a lot by opponents, but that must be the desire thing at play. For some reason they're less distracted in DM.

Anyway, amazing work, thank you so much for making it possible for me to enjoy this great map!

Speaking of bot desire, I wonder if there's a mutator that maxes out powerup desire or something. In DM-Liandri for example I know that the bots can do the hammer jump to get the power amp because I've seen it happen once, but never again. It must be because they're constantly distracted by the action. One of the things I appreciated about UT2004's and UT3's bots is that they are very diligent in grabbing power ups.

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Re: Botpathing request thread

Post by TankBeef » Sat Aug 07, 2021 3:53 pm

I love many DavidM maps, but I have never played that Seed one. I may try it tonight, now that the pathing is better. :D
BTW, I like this CTF map called Cynosure][ , but it does not seem to work well with bots, can something be done?
https://unrealarchive.org/maps/unreal-t ... 1dcff.html

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sektor2111
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Re: Botpathing request thread

Post by sektor2111 » Sat Aug 07, 2021 6:38 pm

Yep... A lot of paths are... Nowhere, missing. I don't think it is even pathed or a small intention for pathing map.

Give me some time for figuring what's suitable here.

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TankBeef
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Re: Botpathing request thread

Post by TankBeef » Sun Aug 08, 2021 1:38 am

Wow!!! The Seed map is awesome, and the new pathing makes it even better. :rock: I will definitely play this one a lot.
Yes Sektor, take your time with Cynosure][, I have no rush. Makes me very happy seeing you help a lot of people. :tu:
EDIT: Ohhh, Tonnberry also worked on this one, Nice!!! :D

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sektor2111
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Re: Botpathing request thread

Post by sektor2111 » Sun Aug 08, 2021 6:01 am

TankBeef wrote:
Sun Aug 08, 2021 1:38 am
take your time with Cynosure][, I have no rush
I took the time, no rush... This layout is too simple for not having paths... Talking about paths executed by Editor WITHOUT those useless never used paths. All it needs CTF is checking in run-time how is the deal with AlternatePaths. For this reason I need to know if map in this state it's normal or it needs more fine tuning.
CTF-Cynosure_rS1845.7z
Extra: These original Paths are enlarged if random players are dropping various creatures in game. If space is permitting they can roam here and there.
Solution used:
- all 70×70 paths are having here 117×112 - except pruned paths (they simply annoy me all the way);
- combos for lifts are having R_Walk R_Jump and no more R_Special;
- Triggers concerning Lifts and Doors are TT_PawnProximity - Default UT bug: Manta or Gasbag or whatever flying creature killed in trigger radius will leave the door opened for a loong time.

Fallback option: Just delete paths and re-define them clean (Paths Define), original bugs won't mess anything here.
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TankBeef
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Re: Botpathing request thread

Post by TankBeef » Sun Aug 08, 2021 2:31 pm

Sektor, have I told you that you rock? :rock: Thanks a lot man, I can finally play the map with the bots, yes!!! :tu:
EDIT: I have just noticed the Seed map has TWO shield belts. :shock: That is so rare.

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sektor2111
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Re: Botpathing request thread

Post by sektor2111 » Sun Aug 08, 2021 5:53 pm

Well... which one is the next ?

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Re: Botpathing request thread

Post by Old UT Veteran » Thu Aug 12, 2021 7:43 pm

sektor2111 wrote:
Sun Aug 08, 2021 5:53 pm
Well... which one is the next ?
MH-Landofeternalsunset

Has that one been done before? Seems like a nice enough map.

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sektor2111
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Re: Botpathing request thread

Post by sektor2111 » Thu Aug 12, 2021 10:52 pm

I think I did that already but... It worth doing a more detailed check with newer resources...
Yes, it's a beautiful map.

Edit:I've added Lost Paths into Nodes, you have to check if it's good in this state as gaming in your environment.
MH-LandOfEternalSunset_rS2379.7z
More Inventories are not connected in Network for preventing map to get overloaded.
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Re: Botpathing request thread

Post by a9902957@nepwk.com » Sat Aug 28, 2021 6:11 am

It appears to me that https://www.mapraider.com/maps/unreal-t ... picTownV2A
still has a few issues with some of the lifts.
At least the FerBotz I wrote a support file for BRUT for have problems with some.
The map is superb for that mode otherwise.

Also I feel J. Martin needs to be asked if AeonFlux and possibly some of his other maps (e.g. DM-RealCity [not UnrealCity]) get his blessing for bot pathing reworks.
http://islandalien.com/unreal/ and there under the UT maps link at the top.

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sektor2111
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Re: Botpathing request thread

Post by sektor2111 » Sat Aug 28, 2021 7:23 am

Making Paths in Lifts for being used by Ferbotz requires stuff which overrides my understanding and I don't get why that way. In my 3072 map which I did, normal UT Bots are working without a single flaw. When I tested Ferbotz they weren't doing anything entertaining, more than that they were sitting in front of first Lift randomly firing Biorifle and killing themselves. Without an external plugin loaded Ferbotz are not really helping, lift has to be an ElevatorMover or else... nada. With other words FerBotz are not using all paths from map that much as they use external paths injected in map during run-time and various actors attached.
Those lifts in EpicTown and other similar maps are not having issues as FerBotz are having without their external plugins, they work in their own way out of usual Bot rules. It's not like plain Bot cannot be smarter here and there using a SpecialCost and/or SpecialHandling written as generic stuff aiming Bot and their attraction code.

AeonFlux - I'll drop an eye there for figuring what's suitable and how much map is permitting some activity.