Botpathing request thread

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Re: Botpathing request thread

Post by Old UT Veteran » Tue Dec 28, 2021 4:37 am

sektor2111 wrote:
Sun Dec 26, 2021 10:58 am
Because more sniper servers are using Translocator in their arenas, here are paths for this purpose too - they get self-locked if game doesn't use Translocator. Mid open areas are not having paths, Bot roaming in open area is an easy target, way too easy.
I'm surprised you did not include the fancy actor that makes bots translocate along a path then, sektor.
In regards to the sniperTracker, not too sure i'm recognizing what it does - perhaps its not working on my side :noidea . As base, sniping bots don't make much sense to me sometimes in the way they behave in this game. Using MindReader, they can see the target but still don't shoot; im assuming thats due to some hardcoded bot behavior.

By the way, thank you for your work.

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Re: Botpathing request thread

Post by sektor2111 » Tue Dec 28, 2021 3:16 pm

Allow me a few explanations.
I went here for simple paths which means whatever distances. Common stock Translocator goes somewhere at 800-900 UU distance after my observations. In this case Bot being triggered the mostly after some MoveTimer - post latent functions from roaming - I believe won't cause too many instances for using Translocator and this might not be that helpful as expected - perhaps I was wrong but... out of Translocator it won't help either.
Since the stage when Bot can see an enemy, it's completely Bot decision - I could do some nasty code for a berserk attack but it might be frustrating - depending on rifle used. Bot decisions are taken based on settings, it depends on aggressiveness, skill, etc. Code can help, or it causes Bot to retreat chickening out, Bot is only noticed by an enemy, the rest is its own rule and internal decisions. I could do a call to "ShootTarget(APawn)" which could completely wipe floors as long as they aim exactly the target and there I'm not aware if they have some skill-related errors because there shooting weapon has a different deal.
Perhaps I have to import some of my oldies for checking if TBooster is helpful or awful here, or trying a different sniping method. This might be a future task...
In my case by disabling sniper actor they were a bit more blind, more lazy in reactions - perhaps because I'm using them a bit over-skilled right in default settings in User.INI they react more intensive in front of enemy, to not forget, weapon has also a word in A.I. behavior from AIRating response.

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Re: Botpathing request thread

Post by OjitroC » Tue Dec 28, 2021 3:30 pm

sektor2111 wrote:
Tue Dec 28, 2021 3:16 pm
I could do a call to "ShootTarget(APawn)" which could completely wipe floors as long as they aim exactly the target and there I'm not aware if they have some skill-related errors because there shooting weapon has a different deal.
Could you do a call to "ShootTarget(APawn)" with some degree of random error built in? So, say 60% of the shots hit the target exactly (or even a % that can be configured) - if there are skill-related errors then they would be over and above this.

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Re: Botpathing request thread

Post by sektor2111 » Tue Dec 28, 2021 3:41 pm

Technically if that will be used, the only way to stop a mass-kill would be to grow a bit cycling timers simulating like Bot did not see Target because was busy with other things. "ShootTarget" being hard-coded I don't think you have options unless you flood map with some fake targets living a shorter life placed around Victim location and by this way causing some aiming errors, but you might have chances to gain more damage than supposed. You can try it, I'm not 100% curious here, but you can let me know if things are getting more evil than expected. Imagine some RedeemerSniper what "SplashDamage" does, if we talk about such a weapon, a bit of aiming error is not relevant at all, the blast is powerful and does damage even if you have small errors. Let me think what else I can use...
During this time you can point me some map that supports Bot gaming but is not having it and let's stick with topic. Sooner or later someone must open a topic with these things doable for A.I. activity from UT including pathing hints and such...

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Re: Botpathing request thread

Post by Ubir4 » Wed Mar 16, 2022 9:29 am

sektor2111 wrote:
Fri Nov 26, 2021 12:55 pm
Yep...
Map has Incomplete Translocator combos and... usual bugs...

Code: Select all

LostData: ReachSpecs missing from Paths[0-15] 		= 38.
LostData: ReachSpecs missing from upStreamPaths[0-15] 	= 16.
FixedWithSuccess: ReachSpecs successfully attached 	= 54.
FixFailures: ReachSpecs attaching failures - probably no place = 0.
I'll complete combos and reducing useless "paths".

Edit: Done ?
Asked because:
- map is aiming Translocator as I see in original version - here is taken from time to time;
- without Translocator and using ImpactJumping there is no interest to waste life for an Armor which is not too protective - I did not see more activity there;
- without Translocator in Low Gravity this is often taken - so paths are connected properly, the rest is how much is desired this thing.
No adds and no items removal has been done, paths-network here doesn't have lost reachspecs and it's minimized to a decent charge.
DM-1on1-DavidM_rS360.7z
Next...
Hi sektor2111, I know it's been a while since I asked for this map. I realized today that the bot never takes the elevator. Is there a way to get him to take the elevator often?Let the bot go up or down the elevator.
With the use of the elevator can you make him get the armor?

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Re: Botpathing request thread

Post by sektor2111 » Wed Mar 16, 2022 6:24 pm

I'll drop an eye over there, it might worth a try to setup a jumper like my bots are using but adjusted a bit.
Here are needed a plenty of tests because... game settings and Bot skill is causing different reactions concerning movement speed. Landing spot is not that big and I can expect flaws in certain conditions. I'll try to write a jumper for that particular case.

Elevator usage can be a little bit accelerated for normal situations but combining with a jump for taking armor would need more fine tuning. Let me see what can be done.

Edit:
This is what I could do so far... Some small corrections at costs and route to armor + a conditional trigger. Let me know if this is what was expected - a bit more intensive usage of lifts. I did not do any check with Translocator active, neither with LowGrav (here it's possible to see flaws at jumping from lift...)
DM-1on1-DavidM_rS364LJ.7z
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Re: Botpathing request thread

Post by Ubir4 » Thu Mar 17, 2022 4:51 am

sektor2111 wrote:
Wed Mar 16, 2022 6:24 pm
I'll drop an eye over there, it might worth a try to setup a jumper like my bots are using but adjusted a bit.
Here are needed a plenty of tests because... game settings and Bot skill is causing different reactions concerning movement speed. Landing spot is not that big and I can expect flaws in certain conditions. I'll try to write a jumper for that particular case.

Elevator usage can be a little bit accelerated for normal situations but combining with a jump for taking armor would need more fine tuning. Let me see what can be done.

Edit:
This is what I could do so far... Some small corrections at costs and route to armor + a conditional trigger. Let me know if this is what was expected - a bit more intensive usage of lifts. I did not do any check with Translocator active, neither with LowGrav (here it's possible to see flaws at jumping from lift...)
DM-1on1-DavidM_rS364LJ.7z
Wowww!!!!! He did!, He did!, The bot did a nice jump and flew on top of the armor. I put 2 bots and I was spec and right at the beginning I already saw an elevator going up and a "Malcon" with belt flying towards the armor. Amazing, really what I wanted to see for a long time. (You know I played with bot on this map, before, without using the armor since he never would... now yesssss. I got silly when I saw it...

TTTHHAANNKK'SS!, fantastic. Congratulations.

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Re: Botpathing request thread

Post by sektor2111 » Thu Mar 17, 2022 7:06 pm

I think that trigger works even elsewhere if settings are correctly operated.
Solution for using lifts more intensive than ramps is off-topic here and I don't know if tutorials are having more information - I didn't read too many tutorials out of "Mother Epic", except community's tutorials done by guys doing good maps - still incomplete.

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Re: Botpathing request thread

Post by a9902957@nepwk.com » Sun Mar 20, 2022 12:07 pm

sektor2111 wrote:
Sat Oct 02, 2021 1:35 pm
There are several gravity "settings" which I'm afraid that are not Bot friendly at all. I'm not aware if Engine will process paths there when Pawn it's in zone.
Map has brushes, my builder won't map paths in WarpZones but I can use another builder with a limited ScanRange and connecting missing things later, and claiming a fake WaterZone for creating links, then rebuilding map without paths. This way map can be pathed in brute-force mode but there is no warranty about Bot's navigation capabilities toward understanding movement requirements. Bot has not much education for adjusted gravity, creating routes there might not be helpful at all. But I can do some checks with Me in Bot shoes on purpose to see what's the deal. The rest: removing spam actors - DefaultAmmo actors in map are pointless.
sektor2111 wrote:
Sun Oct 03, 2021 8:27 am
Resuming...
[...]

DM2001 vXWhatever
Stage here is not very Bot friendly, Lifts need a rework, rifle area need connected manually and/or WarpZoneInfo actors relocated for generating markers where they need to be placed and not on the walls. I'll do some editing here, but if results are not valid for Bots I'll drop it away. When paths are created but impossible for being used, it's not like users are happy this way.
I guess I will try around to see if I can get them to go more places in this beauty.
With the LazyMatrix mutator turning hitscan weapons into true projectile ones to work through warpzones and
gametypes that make the bots roam around the entirety of the pathed parts of the map, this nicely interconnected historical mapping masterpiece begs to get played more.

Original epic documentation says bots should be able to take adjusted gravity into account for jump pathing so some more places
to open up for the bots should be possible.
I will also likely add some ZoneName descriptions and maybe even try the LocationID actors.

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Re: Botpathing request thread

Post by sektor2111 » Sun Mar 20, 2022 1:59 pm

a9902957@nepwk.com wrote:
Sun Mar 20, 2022 12:07 pm
Original epic documentation says bots should be able to take adjusted gravity into account for jump pathing so some more places
Yes, but... there are certain gravity related settings where NO PATH is being created, believe me or not I witnessed such a stage in whatever AMC map... too much creativity with other words. Problem usually is solved with forced connections letting zone to do the task but... informing A.I. about their destination and motivating them to go there like everything is fine.

We can have some pieces of maps with nasty zones which we can check and try figuring solutions if Engine is accepting them.

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Re: Botpathing request thread

Post by a9902957@nepwk.com » Sun Mar 20, 2022 4:01 pm

Also I am not sure how to make the bots jump into a warp zone above them that has no floor for them to land on.
Like on the upper sides of the four long lift shafts. I doubt a jump spot on the other side of the warp zone can coax them to start a jump
in the corresponding warp zone that is miles away.

I did see an MBot fly into the middle low grav area (from the red/green upper lift area) but I will have to check the map if there's just a playerstart there.

Humans can also drop down from the shuttle area to that outside bridge part where a flak is on two boxes.
This is neat.

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Re: Botpathing request thread

Post by sektor2111 » Sun Mar 20, 2022 7:35 pm

If Bot knows how to examine "NavigationPoint(MoveTarget)" explained/delivered/pointed by Engine, it can be educated to jump or doing something else. So the need is connecting a combo into a Warp-Zone from a ceiling spot as Main Goal. Here the only thing which I can recommend for testing is claiming Warp-Zone as Water-Zone and so could be possible to have a connection from LiftExit placed in Warp to the WarpZoneMarker in cause - speaking about Editor...
In other hand, user can generate a ReachSpec in 227 Editor, or in UT Editor using my XC toy connecting this combo on demand. And then, we can have here logic paths but... the equation is if Bot wants to move there. Perhaps if JumpSpot target is placed inside warp-zone it will attempt an Impact Jump or a Translocation there.
Right now I think I will want to setup a small stage for probing original UT Bot if it's capable to deliver this sort of stunt because certain factors depend on "SpecialHandling" and we have to track if Bot it's not intended to keep his MoveTarget when actually it was warped already elsewhere and his movement goal must be reoriented/hacked. Technically we can have triggers for pointing a new target or... causing a Navigation Point to react when it gets touched by A.I. (and/or human tester). Things are not that harder but... these need patience and time for testing various stages. As far as I recall I wrote some Fake Teleporter for Translocator purpose and the goal was reducing ReachSpecs charge by using only 2 instead of 4. This target Teleporter can also get linked anywhere in a water area - after pathing stage, water-zone can be reverted back without rebuilding paths.

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Re: Botpathing request thread

Post by a9902957@nepwk.com » Sun Mar 20, 2022 8:06 pm

Thank you!
Hmm, there is no playerstart and the bot was definitely comin from the red/green upper turbolift warp zone.
So he must have taken this route for some reason (well or he ended up in the warp zone by freak accident (jumping during combat?):
LiftExit to WarpZoneInfo
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Re: Botpathing request thread

Post by sektor2111 » Sun Mar 20, 2022 8:37 pm

If Red Line is a R_Fly then Bot was moving there by accident. If Red Line is "BotPath", moving there was a logic calculus.
I prefer a JumpSpot linked because JumpSpot "talks" to the Bot to jump or to Translocate. In Low Gravity Bot doesn't need too many Tools, it's simply jumping.
Give me a few minutes for painting something...

Edit: This is what I wanted to check:
Warp-Jump.PNG
To figure if Bot keeps moving to JumpSpot post warping. It might need geometry re-build for assigning zone properties correctly - or maybe it's not needed at all.
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Re: Botpathing request thread

Post by a9902957@nepwk.com » Sun Mar 20, 2022 9:08 pm

Thanks! I should give that a try.
Yes, seemed like an accident to me, although I found another bot in the hub area.
Here is the map with ZoneInfos for LocationStrings and an attempt to make the yellow/red lift usable by the bots.
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Last edited by a9902957@nepwk.com on Thu Mar 24, 2022 7:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.