Botpathing request thread

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Re: Botpathing request thread

Postby sektor2111 » Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:18 pm

Tick-tock clock said... And then rang "BumpTime" sound. Question is: What for ?
Explanation:
Due a discussion toward some evil borked content from a MH map over fixed and not fixed I think I was waiting enough for a potential author to show up with reasonable explanations about settings done there and what "Editor" was used. While we can still waiting a sudden appearance I think I got a temporary (or permanent) replacement for some Level which I call CryptRunners, probably an ode to the same texture(/s).
ChangeLog:
- Destroyed mystical quality setup of movers from this level that fart with bNoDelete=False was set back to True because is Mover not Pickup;
- Entire content except LevelInfo actor and builder brush was copied into a clean location in order to gain an "Autofix" a la Edy Goblin as follows:
a) Edy has blocked/caped insane rotations done at some brushes without screwing them and just giving them normal values;
b) Edy has removed duplicated actors by setting two of them in spot and then I happily removed the second one;
c) Edy has rammed screenshot probably borked as well and I got it as a 256 color texture looking as original;
- map has now some Bot Support a bit protected for default MH crapped A.I. code - including a HuntNode for reducing a bit bot's retarded behavior and there is also a small fine tuning toward some random water problems of default Bot (for whoever uses it). For this reason I think map can go here;
- LevelInfo's fake Info has been updated - for sure this is not for 32 players as it was described and we cannot use 18 playerstart actors in default MH because that thing uses TDM code which has a deal for 16 players (males, females, grandmothers, grandfathers and/or kids + 2 moron neighbors and a dog - okay not really).

A small description about this map is written here and some downloads of previous bugged ones
http://blackmore.no-ip.pl/uttracker/map ... runners-v1
where it seems to be promised a never came fix.
Allright, the file...
MH-Sk_Cryptrunners.zip
(3.99 MiB) Downloaded 28 times

Archive Description:
Using Zip and having all supposed non-stock required files except MonsterHunt.u file (you should have it if you start playing a MH map don't you ?). If some file is missing let me know. MapManager did this task and it goes retarded at random. Archive do includes two files for redirects - old "uz" and less older "lzma".
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Re: Botpathing request thread

Postby R3plicant » Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:18 am

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=12999

I'd like to submit a request to get this map fully pathed.

I've added path-nodes, lift exits, lift centers etc but I am not at all good enough when it comes to bot-pathing. I can do the geometry, lighting and basic texturing etc but none of the finer intricacies of pathing.

So, if someone would like a proper mention within the map itself, please let me know if you'd like to accept the challenge of doing the pathing for me.

Some basic facts for you (numbered for your convenience, but not in any particular order):

1). The 2 'on Earth' spawn halls (blue and red) require bots to use a teleporter (4 in each hall) to get to the main orbiting multi platform play area. This is a compulsory necessity.
2). The jump pads are powerful but finely tuned, bots need to use these with some finesse yet also definite purpose; however I acknowledge the map's jump pads make this task very complicated.
3). I'd like the bots to take the most challenging routes more often (say appx 60% of the time) than the easier ones, if possible.
4). Bots showed 'lemming-like' behaviour too often, seemingly happily jumping off the ledges (into oblivion) with wanton abandonment. Hilarious, but frustrating.

If you want to do this pathing task for me, as promised there will be a good mention within the spawn halls for you.

One other thing, no matter what I've tried, the reach-specs are well over 4000,.. why this is, I have NO idea. Yes, I have tried ordering all path-nodes (and path-related 'actors') to last and rebuilding the map, but this has no effect. I have ALSO tried entering: "paths undefine" into the editor console, again to no effect, it says "4000 reachspecs cleared",. but it seems not to have when I rebuild, they're right back there again, so if you know a THIRD trick to clear them, then please do what you can. Thanks.

Hoping to hear from someone soon - thanks! :highfive:
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Re: Botpathing request thread

Postby Barbie » Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:37 am

R3plicant wrote:I have ALSO tried entering: "paths undefine" into the editor console, again to no effect, it says "4000 reachspecs cleared",. but it seems not to have when I rebuild, they're right back there again, so if you know a THIRD trick to clear them
I'd remove the paths, save the map, reopen and trying building paths again. (I found that UnrealEd starts enumeration again from 0 for new things when map was saved/opened.)
"Multiple exclamation marks," he went on, shaking his head, "are a sure sign of a diseased mind." --Terry Pratchett
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Re: Botpathing request thread

Postby Red_Fist » Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:44 am

I can take a look, but I see no download links.
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Re: Botpathing request thread

Postby R3plicant » Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:31 am

Red_Fist wrote:I can take a look, but I see no download links.


Ok, thanks! :) Can I DM it to you please?

--post merge by UnrealGGecko--

Barbie wrote:
R3plicant wrote:I have ALSO tried entering: "paths undefine" into the editor console, again to no effect, it says "4000 reachspecs cleared",. but it seems not to have when I rebuild, they're right back there again, so if you know a THIRD trick to clear them
I'd remove the paths, save the map, reopen and trying building paths again. (I found that UnrealEd starts enumeration again from 0 for new things when map was saved/opened.)


Ha,. I added paths long after the reachspecs were proving high and difficult to remove. Even with no actors,. (yes, none),. the reach specs were high - how that's even possible |I have no idea. I even tried to export the BSP as a .t3d and restart,.. (EARLY in the remaking process) and that had no effect either,. crazy, huh?
Last edited by UnrealGGecko on Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Please avoid double-posting within 24 hours.
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Re: Botpathing request thread

Postby papercoffee » Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:30 pm

R3plicant wrote:Even with no actors

No actors? No weapons, no health, no player-starts?
All of them count as well as path-node.
Turn your "show paths" on and see what you have there.
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Re: Botpathing request thread

Postby R3plicant » Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:05 pm

papercoffee wrote:
R3plicant wrote:Even with no actors

No actors? No weapons, no health, no player-starts?
All of them count as well as path-node.
Turn your "show paths" on and see what you have there.


Instagib map,.. no weapons, no health and long before the player starts went in the reachspecs were high. During the early stages of the rework, I accidentally once built the map (with paths) with no actors (trigger happy; I pressed build without unchecking the 'Build Paths' button) and the reachspecs were climbing - I couldn't (and still can't) figure out why or what was causing them. There's no clear way to work out what's causing them now or how to bring them back to their lowest count.
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Re: Botpathing request thread

Postby papercoffee » Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:26 pm

You should open this map in Unreal UEd2.1 that Editor can clean up the reach spec.
But you need to link Unreal and UT ...Dr.Flay posted the set up for this. I have to search for it.
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Re: Botpathing request thread

Postby R3plicant » Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:55 pm

papercoffee wrote:You should open this map in Unreal UEd2.1 that Editor can clean up the reach spec.
But you need to link Unreal and UT ...Dr.Flay posted the set up for this. I have to search for it.


I've used UnrealEd 2.0 all along, it's the editor for UT99.
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Re: Botpathing request thread

Postby papercoffee » Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:26 pm

UEd2.1 is the Editor for Unreal 227, which right now much more advanced then our old UEd2.0 ...You have to install Unreal and then get the patch from OldUnreal.
Then link both games.
I just linked UT to Unreal:
Go to unreal.ini and Look for
Code: Select all
[Core.System]
.
.
.
Paths=..\System\*.u
Paths=..\Maps\*.unr
Paths=..\Textures\*.utx
Paths=..\Sounds\*.uax
Paths=..\Music\*.umx

And add beneath
Code: Select all
[Core.System]
.
.
.
Paths=..\System\*.u
Paths=..\Maps\*.unr
Paths=..\Maps\UPak\*.unr
Paths=..\Textures\*.utx
Paths=..\Sounds\*.uax
Paths=..\Music\*.umx
Paths=..\Meshes\*.usm
Paths=C:\ - your-install-path - \UnrealTournament\System\*.u
Paths=C:\ - your-install-path - \UnrealTournament\Maps\*.unr
Paths=C:\ - your-install-path - \UnrealTournament\Textures\*.utx
Paths=C:\ - your-install-path - \UnrealTournament\Sounds\*.uax
Paths=C:\ - your-install-path - \UnrealTournament\Music\*.umx

Of course you have to put in your own install path :wink:

Then you can use UEd2.1 for pathing your map, it will clean up the reach specs and optimise the pathing by cutting redundant connections.
Brushe errors can also be fixed.
Don't use anything else most of that stuff won't work in UT because it's too much advanced.
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Re: Botpathing request thread

Postby R3plicant » Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:42 am

papercoffee wrote:UEd2.1 is the Editor for Unreal 227, which right now much more advanced then our old UEd2.0 ...You have to install Unreal and then get the patch from OldUnreal.
Then link both games.
I just linked UT to Unreal:
Go to unreal.ini and Look for
Code: Select all
[Core.System]
.
.
.
Paths=..\System\*.u
Paths=..\Maps\*.unr
Paths=..\Textures\*.utx
Paths=..\Sounds\*.uax
Paths=..\Music\*.umx

And add beneath
Code: Select all
[Core.System]
.
.
.
Paths=..\System\*.u
Paths=..\Maps\*.unr
Paths=..\Maps\UPak\*.unr
Paths=..\Textures\*.utx
Paths=..\Sounds\*.uax
Paths=..\Music\*.umx
Paths=..\Meshes\*.usm
Paths=C:\ - your-install-path - \UnrealTournament\System\*.u
Paths=C:\ - your-install-path - \UnrealTournament\Maps\*.unr
Paths=C:\ - your-install-path - \UnrealTournament\Textures\*.utx
Paths=C:\ - your-install-path - \UnrealTournament\Sounds\*.uax
Paths=C:\ - your-install-path - \UnrealTournament\Music\*.umx

Of course you have to put in your own install path :wink:

Then you can use UEd2.1 for pathing your map, it will clean up the reach specs and optimise the pathing by cutting redundant connections.
Brushe errors can also be fixed.
Don't use anything else most of that stuff won't work in UT because it's too much advanced.


Hold on a cotton pickin' minute lol :lol:,.. isn't v436 AFTER v227? MY UT99 is the v436 patched one (no delta patch version, ahem) - I should quickly, in my defense add that I had bought the game on DVD twice prior, from GAME no less) I'm confused. :confused2: I REALLY don't want to f-up my UT99 if I get this even the slightest bit wrong. Can I not go wrong with your method then? :)
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Re: Botpathing request thread

Postby Red_Fist » Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:24 am

It's for "Unreal" but they remade a new editor for it which does more than "UT".

But I keep Unreal and UT separate installs, he is just saying to link the folders in the ini.
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Re: Botpathing request thread

Postby R3plicant » Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:19 am

Red_Fist wrote:It's for "Unreal" but they remade a new editor for it which does more than "UT".

But I keep Unreal and UT separate installs, he is just saying to link the folders in the ini.


Ah, got it. Ok, thanks. 8) Ok, so I've installed Unreal Gold (from my CD with UT99 and UT2004 on it), and I've installed the .227i patch for the Unreal Gold and I've updated the Unreal.ini file with the code. So, now what I do is to open my map in the Unreal [gold] editor and rebuild the map to get rid of the excessively high reachspecs? :)

Edit, hm,.. I get this error message when trying to open my map in the 2.1 editor: 'Can't open map: Can't find Struct in file 'Struct Engine.HUD.HUDLocalizedMessage'', try to load map anyway? Note, this may crash editor.
I clicked yes but it didn't crash the map but the map still failed to open. Something I'm doing wrong? :(

Edit 2,. Ok, I have the map open in the 2.1 editor. Now what do I do? Just set the 'Order of any path related actors and rebuild, save and then reopen in UnrealEd 2.0 and save there?

Edit 3. Map's paths rebuilt in 2.1,.. map saved. Map opened in 2.0,.. paths rebuilt, reachspecs 4137 (something like that). I have no idea why UnrealEd 2.0 is STILL calculating well over 4000 reachspecs,.. for a map that has only a handful of path-nodes, player starts and lift exits. Crazy. I typed in 'Flush' into the editor's console,.. and paths undefine,. (515 reach specs removed, or so it said),. and a texture cull for good measure. I'm lost.

Edit 4. Sorry for all these edits! lol :mrgreen: Ok, so,. NOW what I did was a FULL map rebuild in the 2.1 editor,. after ordering all path-related actors in my map (NOT the one you tweaked for me) to last and the reach-specs are a very respectable 330. So, I reckon if I did the same to YOUR teaked path version, the reach specs might well be even lower. In short, I THINK it's fair to say: RESULT! :) The main test will be if the map works without crashing in multiplayer mode on a dedicated v436 server. Fingers crossed for that! :)

Edit 5. However, if I open the map in UnrealEd 2.0 the excessively high reach-specs is still well over 4000. I have no idea why it's such a pervasive problem. :(
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Re: Botpathing request thread

Postby Barbie » Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:53 pm

R3plicant wrote:However, if I open the map in UnrealEd 2.0 the excessively high reach-specs is still well over 4000. I have no idea why it's such a pervasive problem. :(
Have a look in Editor.log to see what happens.
Example:
Editor.log wrote:DevPath: Remove 2261 old reachspecs
DevPath: Add WarpZone and Inventory markers
DevPath: Scout didn't fit
DevPath: Scout didn't fit
DevPath: Add reachspecs
DevPath: Added reachspecs to PlayerStart0
DevPath: Added reachspecs to PatrolPoint5
DevPath: Added reachspecs to PatrolPoint6
Log: WARNING: InventorySpot37 and PlayerStart4 may be too close!
DevPath: Added reachspecs to PlayerStart4
...
DevPath: Added reachspecs to InventorySpot148
DevPath: Added reachspecs to InventorySpot149
DevPath: Added 2254 reachspecs
DevPath: Prune reachspecs
DevPath: Pruned 811 reachspecs
DevPath: All done
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Re: Botpathing request thread

Postby sektor2111 » Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:47 pm

R3plicant wrote:Hold on a cotton pickin' minute lol :lol:,.. isn't v436 AFTER v227?
Cough, Unreal Tournament is not Unreal. Unreal Tournament was patched to 451b around 2004 and UNREAL was patched around 2012-2013 if I'm not mistaking. The reality... Unreal227 has new assets which if by chance are called into UT in a bad moment will crash game due to null content accessed so think twice.
Aside info: XC_PathBuilder Editor Add-on by Higor for UT99 is very helpful to "order" connections between nodes as you like, you can even restrict linking range preventing useless bad links by definition of "ScanRange" parameter from builder - ALL stuff created (special path) is compatible with Plain UT. Not that last option you can use anytime bOneWayPath if you have a special situation. You don't need any 227 if your geometry is OK, map can be build and pathed properly with normal Editor from Unreal Tournament.
Xc_PathBuilder is getting over default restrictive build letting you to deal with special situations. If you need evidences, you can test a bit that SkaarjTower Map which Higor has adjusted (map has BSP problems no worries) and see some "crazy" type jump performed by Bot. In other cases with default Editor you can fool Engine to do what you want > New Nodes, Combos, Scout adjusting, etc...
Another Hint:
Scout didn't fit - message is proving that some InventorySpot Marker could not be added for certain Inventory in map - Bot won't see it unless is closer to that spot ( except some MBot ). This happens when Inventory is located in a small spot where Fat-Ass Scout having 50×50 collision won't ever move for signing agreement for InventorySpot, but default Bot is not that big - by using a "normal" Scout, your map will have spots completed properly, there are months since I saw that message.
Else if your map is an "Insta" I mean an empty thing, then with all apology, say a pray or something :lol2: . Bot is roaming through map based on Inventories not based on a "Nothing-To-See", unless your Bot is a serial killer scanning constantly for victims rather than for Items, default Bot is addicted to items and 1on1 matches as a default habit - good luck then with no Inventories and Bot support...

For cleaning map from "history" type reachspecs data you don't need any U227 U4000 or U12012321 Editor, simple as that. My friendly advice is to stay away from that if you don't map for U227 game.
- Load map in Editor and Use Console;
- By any chance Edy will respond at command PATHS UNDEFINE happily destroying Paths and InventorySpots;
- Save Map and CLOSE EDITOR;
- Open Editor and Map;
- Press RebuildAIPaths button or input command PATHS DEFINE - for these commands I have buttons defined, I'm not writing commands.
See what you get... I'll bet you'll gain InventorySpot0 in map (if exist - if not, good night, Mr. Bot). Less number of ReachSpecs are developed if ScanRange is smaller - POSSIBLE in XC_PathBuilder.
Next Hint-problem:
If your map is really big then you can forget Bot Pathing - no kidding - if you want to figure why I'm saying this you can take in account map MH-GardenOfDeath which for Player is AWESOME but for DevPath from Engine is GARBAGE at full power. Engine doesn't even show a "Reachable" actor there, or you can take in account some CTF map which EvilGrins has asked for Bot Support (old map) where Bot was working by only removing large zones from map, all PathNodes there have simply USELESS getting over processing cycles which Engine uses for DevPath :thudown: . Like Polge said: When Pawn is entering the Paths-Network this is VERY EXPENSIVE for Engine.
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