[WIP] CTF-Austere99

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rizbef
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Re: [WIP] CTF-Austere99

Post by rizbef »

I played it last night and it ran very smoothly! Bots went off and picked up the enemy flag just fine... the map is very big and roomy! I'm not even sure I saw all of it. I'll have to play it again because I still haven't figured out how to get to the damage amplifier :) very nice work though!!
ojrask
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Re: [WIP] CTF-Austere99

Post by ojrask »

Hi rizbef, thanks! I bet you'll find the next version even roomier as I added an entirely new route between each lift/Ripper and the mid shield belt. :D

The samage amplifier is in fact an Invisibility Powerup, and is reachable only with a translocator (as it was in the UT3 version). That room also provides a shortcut between the two pulse gun hallways if you're handy with the xloc.

I might have to do some general changes to item layout as I introduced the new routes. Will try to get a new map version available soon so folks can check it out. The new routes are underground caves exposed from broken walls, so not much going on in terms of theming there yet. I need to redo them at some point, as the BSP got too funky and I've got some HOMing and collision issues here and there. Bots do route through it properly right now though.
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sektor2111
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Re: [WIP] CTF-Austere99

Post by sektor2111 »

SilverSound wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:54 am Did you use the ed command for the paths.....? That is some weird placement.
ojrask wrote: Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:14 pm I might have to do some general changes to item layout as I introduced the new routes...
Also would be more comfortable to optimize routes by reducing useless nodes. Take a look here
Overcrowded.PNG
Here it's only a sample of two Navigation Points at less than 50 UU each-other which are only loading paths for no reason. Polge from Epic described clearly requirement for some optimization. If pawn has a nearby Node it doesn't need another 3 ones with no use just to make sure about navigation.
See what Polge said:
Polge wrote: Once the level geometry is complete, the level designer should fully map the level into the navigation network using PathNodes. Place PathNodes at intersections and turns so that there is as much clearance as possible from corners (at least 50 world units if possible). Paths need a line of sight to each other, clear to the width of the maximum width (2 * collisionradius) of creatures which will use this path. PathNodes should not be placed more than 700 units apart. Since PlayerStarts and Inventory will be placed on the navigation network, the designer can (and should) not place PathNodes where these other NavigationPoints can substitute. On stairs and ramps, the PathNodes should only be 350 units apart. The objective should be to use a minimum number of PathNodes to completely cover a level.
...
There are several common problems that result from assumptions and approximations made by the AI to minimize CPU overhead. Make sure that all NavigationPoints are separated by at least 50 world units. If two pathnodes are too close together, a bot may get stuck on them. The editor log window will display warnings during a PATHS DEFINE if paths are too close together. This problem commonly occurs with InventorySpots, which are automatically placed near all inventory items. Don't place PathNodes too near to inventory.
Except that ramp myth with 350 UU (he forgot what he did at random) the rest can be even a bit loved at 710-750 UU distance with no single issue and even more depending on map. Lift/Jumpy combinations might accept small distances because are restrictive in creating paths.

Else, btw, combos for Invisibility are incomplete and PathNode in the room can be removed because it won't help with anything. Another spot has routes over some boxes in direction Down, routes heading UP in reverse are not completed.
As another sample, TranslocDest1 has a connection from the lower located TranslocStart1 and reversal, nothing more, resulting an EndPoint with no interest for pawns. Do you know what is about these problems ? It's about the MINIMAL charge for these combos which means THREE points not TWO. TranslocStart is a LiftExit like TranslocDest is a LiftCenter. A LiftCenter in plain pathing won't have connections with PathNodes because it's not on purpose. Such a combination has always minimum 3 elements:
- LiftExit - Which is an entry in stage;
- LiftCenter - Which is MID Point;
- LiftExit - Which is exiting causing a link with nearby nodes.
Of course these are working in reverse too: Exit becomes Entry and Entry becomes Exit at return. It's the same rule for child classes as TranslocStart and TranslocDest.
Only two = NO paths chained for drawing route to target.

Map is a good looking thing, worth playing with human folks, as for Bots there is needed some fine tuning because this is not a paths network. Here are multiple networks isolated by these wrong combos.
ojrask
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Re: [WIP] CTF-Austere99

Post by ojrask »

sektor2111: Whoa, thanks for taking the time to write feedback, I will make sure to follow these best practices in upcoming versions. The pathing itself "works" but I can now see that it must be optimized. I was not that certain about the xloc nodes as in how they work, thanks for clarifying!

I have been a bit "better safe than sorry" regarding the pathing node positions, but will try to have a little less clutter in the future. :)
ojrask
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Re: [WIP] CTF-Austere99

Post by ojrask »

I have uploaded the current alpha version (alpha02) and it is available at https://www.ottorask.com/files/CTF-Aust ... lpha02.unr

Let me know if the file download or the map file itself does not work for some reason:

Apart from fiddling and little stuff all around, I added the initial version of a third "bottom" route that takes players from the lift to the shield belt in the middle atrium. The BSP work is shoddy right now and the route itself needs to be wider and illuminated a bit better. There are some HOM errors and a few collision nags, which I need to fix as well. Super shoddy, but you get the picture.

In any case let me know if the new routes make this better or worse, or if the endpoints for the routes could be altered to make it play better.

The next thing I will be looking at is to see how to make the new routes a little more connected with the other routes, e.g. a "drop down hole" from the minigun room to the cave or something similar?
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