MH-AMC-Mesospheric

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Re: MH-AMC-Mesospheric

Postby Barbie » Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:48 pm

sektor2111 wrote:Is this that pillar that can be semisolid ?
There is quite more semi solid than the pillars :lol: (pillar: see Wikipedia).
And please could you move Brush127 a bit more away from the wall so that the HealthVials can be reached without jumping? Thanks. :)

PS: Has anyone noticed the spelling error "Startgate" (sic)?
"Multiple exclamation marks," he went on, shaking his head, "are a sure sign of a diseased mind." --Terry Pratchett
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Re: MH-AMC-Mesospheric

Postby sektor2111 » Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:58 pm

Eh, for spelling I think (general grammar not only english) it's "Good luck, soldier !" - Right ? And so on... In first version says Stargate.
I moved Tunnel building geometry again and paths, then some flickering was bugging here and there, I set other parameters to building task, the three holes water-zones weren't water, then building again and water has been recovered. All items are piece of cake to fix, I want to see geometry in a good stage - probably won't be perfect but not looking screwed up. Then building all with water and all walls and... suddenly some last movers were painted with Engine.DefaultTexture LOL. I set movers visible (referencing some texture and building again) and... right now looks good but I want to see if all zones are normal. In a random build something went wrong at swJumpads dropping pawn away - deadly - I put them directional oriented properly, after re-build were working OK again. Heck, kill one problem, another shows up...

PlayerStarts - more times I was dealing with them in pathing task but right now I see all of them rotated in default rotation, but all of them, and Spawnpoints too. From my experience indeed monster turned with back at player won't notice him too quickly. Distances are big, too big, are out of monster range, I'm not surprised to see monsters floating around utterly blind at those distances - I brought them closer to islands, way better.

Keep testing...
Purpose is to make something stable and a playable map, and maybe later if I'll have more Ideas, I'll deploy some stuff linked in map. Those movers heading to nowhere, I can connect them and open them in run-time if are there I can spread another teleporter to somewhere - relocating objectives, a new factory might spawn other creature etc. If geometry is good, all later gaming can be randomized and changed/adjusted challenging, simple, etc, etc.

To note: in first spawn room there are some lamps added on top inside walls like some spots. It's unbelievable how some tiny lousy subtracts are triggering BSP cuts in main area, that's why I have to look well at geometry... Building shows more corrections but I don't think that everything it's well corrected...
__________________________________ _______________________________________
Edit: I think On-Line testing it's finished. Original map used as support for this modification is AMC one as simple as it is. Source being no longer available for figuring changes, modification will be sent in private to whoever wants to deal with it.
For me, idea looks like a No Go for default MonsterHunt grounds because of incompatible stuff generally:
- first thing was that map had no dispersion but only the modified/edited one and original MonsterHunt has no amplifier - this is the only "stock like" weapon for High Ranges because...
- monsters used here - those which can fly - are capable of roaming out of default weapons range. By asking about setting up a KarmaHunter answer was no, so those monsters can roam with no goal outside of battling grounds. While monsters are moving, aiming with such slow projectiles are a hard task. Else without "zoom" I'm not sure if a fly can be seen at those distances - I'm very serious here;
- other ground units can be convinced to jump into death by swearing them with some Stinger or whatever suitable gun for this task - including Queen. More monsters in map = more suicide rate - it's hilarious. This is happening due to hunting state code used by ScriptedPawn which is not so smart at all;
- tunnel area MUST be hacked for getting paths - future edits would need some new "tutorial" about "How To" or else mappers editing map will lose some paths, not sure if all are needed, but... I'm not going to write those tutorials because the most of people are not understanding a word from what I'm saying (they are lying of course, as primary excuse).

Due to said requirements for On-Line (zooming and stuff replacements operated to MH servers), I think not even the edited one is suitable for new comers at MonsterHunt, these guys being confused about purpose of their mission and why map can be ended with monsters remaining and why they cannot be killed. I played around 7 - 8 matches going into the same nasty situations.
Performance is not bright - a weak machine might run it, but slower somehow and I got over lagging times when I was used to see maps running in under-resourced instances like in years 2008+.

I'm closing Editing task here, now I wanna clone some XC options used as editing devs for preventing some actors like ammo to be mapped as paths and making Levels more simple, Bot having weapon and engaged in fight will get "wild" ammo too, we don't need that paths blabbering.
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Re: MH-AMC-Mesospheric

Postby OjitroC » Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:49 pm

sektor2111 wrote: From my experience indeed monster turned with back at player won't notice him too quickly. .
Yes, that's what I said about the Mantas, though it applies to some of the Gasbags as well.
sektor2111 wrote: ..modification will be sent in private to whoever wants to deal with it..
I'm certainly interested in playing your modification!
sektor2111 wrote: monsters used here - those which can fly - are capable of roaming out of default weapons range..
I'm not entirely sure that flying monsters are appropriate in this type of map. They're OK on the first island but, unless they can be triggered to spawn when a player/bot sets foot on the other islands, personally I wouldn't use them for the reason you state. The flies, mantas and gasbags on the other islands spawn too early in my view. Dragons could be used in some places as they tend not to wander and would fit in well with the overall ambiance of the map.
sektor2111 wrote: other ground units can be convinced to jump into death by swearing them with some Stinger or whatever suitable gun for this task - including Queen..
Personally, I don't think that's a major problem; it's just one way of killing the monsters and as legitimate as shooting them - Terraniux hints at this as being one way of getting rid of his powerful Queen.
Last edited by OjitroC on Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MH-AMC-Mesospheric

Postby sektor2111 » Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:19 pm

I think you have right in big parts, they should spawn on landing after those jumps and not immediately after stargate, here... monsters flying should attack player or have no purpose. Probably ground units should track a spot away from ledges because when is no battle, is None score and None challenge. Monsters killing themselves are no threat and Queen... excuse me but I'm used with such fake threats. When is firing from a long range you can retreat in a safe spot and get some sleep until projectiles are exploding around, to summarize battle-zone it's too big, maybe I have to reconfigure monsters with some SkaarjRemover which I used in my Sk_BattlingLottery - THAT is a threat not that chicken called Queen, to not forget OMG titans but which are part of some junk called BPak, those are real enemies not queens looping when a player wants to be a jerk annoying queen and running away - I was inspired to fix my Queens in a different way.
I'll put a temporary name to this modified one - geometry a bit changed, removed collisions from factories, adjusted paths and MH objectives, changed death zone, added dispersion from later version (for described reasons - it helps to trigger monsters back) + PowerUp for MH mods supporting these, rotated SpawnPoints according to islands view, unPathed Playerstarts and moved accordingly, Mobile Diamond in base with shiny feature (I did not see any bStatic rotating so far, that's why is modified), Introdude is replaced - adjusted, MonsterShadow added, A.I. tweaks... you'll see if I failed some setup. Small flickering might be encountered but it's nothing to kill player as I could see so far...
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Re: MH-AMC-Mesospheric

Postby Barbie » Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:05 pm

sektor2111 wrote:modification will be sent in private to whoever wants to deal with it
Thanks for your work, but wouldn't it be the best solution if you send the modified map to Terraniux so that he can publish the map finally? Maybe he wants also fix "Jumpad" and "Startgate" on Texture 'MyLevel.123'. ;)
"Multiple exclamation marks," he went on, shaking his head, "are a sure sign of a diseased mind." --Terry Pratchett
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Re: MH-AMC-Mesospheric

Postby Terraniux » Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:25 pm

I do not understand what's been fixed and what not. Too much complex coder talk. Going to reinstall my pc as soon as possible.
But yes, show me what's left to be done (in plain , simple english -- like im a six year old ) and you will be well credited. :thuup:

Thank you! All of you! :gj: :highfive:
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Re: MH-AMC-Mesospheric

Postby papercoffee » Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:57 pm

You know something went right in the community when so many people are eager to help and fix your stuff :D
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Re: MH-AMC-Mesospheric

Postby sektor2111 » Sun Dec 23, 2018 7:51 am

Map which I was touching here and there is not last map posted, it's a previous one different from final, irrelevant to fallback. For me after doing a few On-Line tests I could see the same problem - Monsters OUT of RANGE. What is doable here except adding karma and making monsters to hunt players ? Which means is not for my game grounds, not everyone allows "sniping" in servers, some dude here even wants to stop it... and for MonsterHunt you, admins, should allow this freedom to player because monster is not complaining in forums :loool: . You are cheating enough this game already with "mutators", by allowing zooming is nothing evil than the chance to not see monster ambushing you from your left or right because of closed FOV, so player will self limiting in using such feature - else this is one of maps requiring such things.
@Terraniux
Changes (at some previous AMC - no longer posted):
- removed MonsterWaypoint Position 0 - read again what Shrimp said - it's Position 1 for starting A.I. race not 0.
- Diamond from base is net compatible and rotating (not with 50000 but 5000).
- IntroDude is another guy - net compatible.
- Position 4 is at Bottom ( first Level nearby crystal ) and paths linked properly (if Editor is moron XC_PathBuilder is the answer - like in tunnel) - else triggers have been adjusted a bit - the one with no Event is removed.
- PulseGun a bit Moved from slant.
- paths through tunnel are available for human tester and more convinced A.I..
- gravity from tunnel should not make pawn like a balloon levitating, will cause collision issues if a player is moron or a bot is blocking exit - this is not the best idea for multiplayer.
- rotated SpawnPoints and removed navigation data and Tags set to all of them.
- PlayerStarts (all) are also out of navigation data and UPPER located for preventing any telefrag of any roamer fresh spawned when other one spawns immediately.
- Movers are - loved automated by builder so I did not count how many fixes are here.
- Trees - oh... gulp... I loved a bit their PrePivot in order to have a proper collision cylinder which they don't have and rounding cylinder.
- I changed all battle zone into a single semi-solid - too much load and BSP cuts in original.
- all straight stairs have merged polygons, as the rest of co-planar surfaces.
- All BBoyShar...crap have been deleted and lights have been imported from CM4 as suggested - no bugs no crashes here. It's BBoyShare not Shars and... Mylevel these if you need them. Discussions about packages can be open if people are interested. Barbie for sure will report a lot of "scientific" magic which jesters were doing over years.
- death from Bottom is a default ZoneInfo tweaked to be killer.
- some modified sprites have been reverted because they are not nice masked like that, and changes were not useful at all.
- decollided factories - already trigger is doing ignition.

Due to these MAIN "Attack Range" problems I did not wasted time with last AWC map. Perhaps I sustain idea about re-creating a similar Level according to native good ranges from UT in order to make A.I. more sensitive and "brushing" with less mixed polygons.
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Re: MH-AMC-Mesospheric

Postby OjitroC » Sun Dec 23, 2018 7:14 pm

@sektor2111
Yes, what you have done with the SpawnPoints, etc has certainly improved the map, the monsters are now facing the right way to see and attack players/bots. Spawning also happens in a more ordered and logical way, though sometimes there were flies still spawning on the first island when I had reached the final tower.

Spawning off the ground at the start is a bit weird (though I understand why it is done this way) as is gong through the tunnel backwards!

@Terraniux
Other things to do/suggestions include
    1 As Barbie indicated, some of the steps need to be altered as they are too high to be walked up - for example, those to the 'shiny object' on the first island and the first and last step of the spiral staircase in the final tower (plus those to the inaccessible small building on the Queen's island). The platform on which the 'shiny object' stands needs to be moved away from the wall a bit and, I think, the platform itself is too high to step onto.
    2 The jump pad from the Queen's island to the Sliths' island causes damage on landing - not a lot but enough to be annoying.
    3 The start room is rather drab and the rusty barrel certainly out of place alongside the other objects - perhaps consider moving the instructions for playing the map here as well as there is certainly enough time to read them before the door opens.
    4 The jumppad into the gasbag/fly/tentacle 'house' is rather erratic and one can sometimes not get thrown straight up into that space - I also found the same thing with the one at the end of the 'tentacle tunnel'.
    5 Think about placing the sniper rifle earlier in the map as the gasbags, mantas and flies have a tendency to roam out of range as sektor2111 says.
    6 You've got the ideal player count as 12 - I think this is way too high; I would say 6 tops, ideally 4 or 5 (4 bots completed the map by themselves in about 15 minutes in one game I watched; playing with 4 bots it took me a bit less).
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Re: MH-AMC-Mesospheric

Postby papercoffee » Sun Dec 23, 2018 10:43 pm

I delay the gathering of the contest maps till after Christmas Eve ...because I didn't expect to celebrate X-mas myself. But I got invited by a good friend. ;)
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Re: MH-AMC-Mesospheric

Postby sektor2111 » Mon Dec 24, 2018 8:36 am

An improved map would be good even out of contest - contest idea can be discarded and some setup for MH communities might be welcomed. Right ?
@Oijtroc - it's possible to see flies roaming around more than mantas as long as I did not debated their skill as I did at manta types... and maybe their SpawnPoints have to be moved closer to hunter routes else they are going into wild - fly usually has a tendency to crawl around. Eh... it's nasty for tracing codes these big sized maps but people are not getting that engine is limited in Cycles and not using CPU as it should - they are based on CPU frequency but not appreciating correctly the power of cores which definitely are stronger than a PIII at 950 MHz because chips are different having other performance at the same clock frequency. Map runs smoother in high-end systems, but A.I. goes crapped at sensors because of these internal limitations when engine is exhausted with useless processing...
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Re: MH-AMC-Mesospheric

Postby papercoffee » Mon Dec 24, 2018 1:37 pm

@sektor2111, I think that's Terraniux who has to decide if this map should be included into the Map Pack.
He worked his ass of to deliver it in time and it would be a bummer if his map would be excluded because the map isn't working as it should.
Terraniux wrote:show me what's left to be done
So, what should it be Terra?
I want this map in.
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Re: MH-AMC-Mesospheric

Postby Terraniux » Mon Dec 24, 2018 2:26 pm

Like my reply in the contest topic, do as you see fit papercoffee, regardless of version. I can't do much at the moment. Early January is the perhaps the time me can be active in UT again.
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Re: MH-AMC-Mesospheric

Postby FraGnBraG » Mon Dec 24, 2018 3:24 pm

Terraniux wrote:Like my reply in the contest topic, do as you see fit papercoffee, regardless of version. I can't do much at the moment. Early January is the perhaps the time me can be active in UT again.


Don't know if you were planning to, but you could write a readme file to acknowledge all these interested parties that helped your work succeed!
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Re: MH-AMC-Mesospheric

Postby papercoffee » Mon Dec 24, 2018 3:34 pm

@Terraniux
Ok... I'm pretty lazy right now because of the x-mas spirit (alcohol lol) ... is sektor2111 allowed to upload his version to the Map Pack?
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