MH-AMC-Mesospheric

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Re: MH-AMC-Mesospheric

Postby sektor2111 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:26 am

I'm going to play more sessions, so far Bots finished map getting over all sort of steps with my pathing way of doing (- I like reachFlag 9) coming from builder itself after my placement of nodes, only in gravity tunnel I had to modify default strategy... I'll think about HealthVial16 if will do some Bot lockdown - if yes, it will be discarded. Probably routes via "jumpers" masked ( not open ) must have paths locked for preventing any attempt to crawl map unauthorized.
Probably after looking at it stable, I will return a bit map to Terraniux if wants to put some adds and then might need again some love for paths because default build might screw up routes - it's advisable to not rebuild paths and leaving them as I did.

Damage at bottom should be suffice so far with another setup for a default ZoneInfo actor, if CloudZone is causing a critical destruction for fresh spawned actors (gibs, decals, effects, etc.) my games having more decals I won't allow any risk in such instances.

Perhaps some of those building parts should be mixed in single brushes semi-solids because are very loaded in that stage and I see huge BSP cuts.
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Re: MH-AMC-Mesospheric

Postby Barbie » Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:08 am

papercoffee wrote:Then can you explain this?
Yes: you have selected the file "BBoyShare.u" in Windows Explorer but UT is complaining not finding the file named "BBoyShares" (extension is not shown but is "u" probably).

Terraniux wrote:But can the situation be altered? not using either actors or something else? like a kill - all zone?
Maybe I'm on your ignore list but I've already written a possible solution.

OjitroC wrote:2 I don't know if it is the model I use but a significant proportion of the steps can't be walked up, one has to jump
Yes, that's very annoying. Whoever fixes this map, please fix all stairs to be walkable. It is UT, not Mario.
OjitroC wrote:5 I don't think all the tentacles in the building noted in 4 have projectiles
Their RangedProjectile is Class'UnrealI.Tracer' which has a damage of 0. (The Krall0 of the previous map version had the same but that was already changed.)
OjitroC wrote:9 Not sure mixing Berserkers with other Skaarj Warrior types is a good idea as the former tend to kill the latter
A SkaarjBerserker hates everything except Pupaes. If the game controller does not changes this (as mine do) players and admins have to live with it. ^^
Function SkaarjBerserker.AttitudeToCreature
Code: Select all
function eAttitude AttitudeToCreature(Pawn Other) {
   if ( Other.IsA('ScriptedPawn') && !Other.IsA('Pupae') )
      return ATTITUDE_Hate;
   else
      return ATTITUDE_Ignore;
}
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Re: MH-AMC-Mesospheric

Postby sektor2111 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:22 am

Barbie wrote:A SkaarjBerserker hates everything except Pupaes. If the game controller does not changes this (as mine do) players and admins have to live with it. ^^
Very true but... it can be more cute as it is like I said I had evil maps, and... things are changed. However, the fat ass might crash in this case for recursive calls in a death triangle: WhatToDoNext = Sort a closer enemy - SetEnemy = True - Attacking ? No because pawn is dead - then WhatToDoNext and so on. Solution is wrapping well WhatToDoNext or SetEnemy or a better state Attacking - this bug is a critical one un-fixed by nobody.
Me one I do not have issues here, but if you people have original stock you must live with this risk if Berserker won't dodge to the death during combat..
Barbie wrote:Maybe I'm on your ignore list but I've already written a possible solution.
Yes, that's very annoying. Whoever fixes this map, please fix all stairs to be walkable. It is UT, not Mario.[/quote]I think I couldn't jump too much because Bots did the task "inside" while I hunted monsters outside...
Barbie wrote:Maybe I'm on your ignore list but I've already written a possible solution.
Default ZoneInfo set as a killer looks suffice here and some spawning can be moved over islands not in the wild because they won't see players from there and then... if player is not hunting them, they are pointless.
Barbie wrote:Their RangedProjectile is Class'UnrealI.Tracer' which has a damage of 0. (The Krall0 of the previous map version had the same but that was already changed.)
I don't have issues here too but... these are too wick and... I think some DAmmoX it's more recommended - changed them already.
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Re: MH-AMC-Mesospheric

Postby OjitroC » Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:20 am

A simple solution for the Skaarj Berserkers is not to use them or to spawn them via a trigger once Players/bots reach a certain point on the 'WarLord Island' (as a form of ambush perhaps).

Mantas - they seem to be placed facing away from the route that they are likely to be approached with the consequence that they only attack after being shot at (I was able to stand behind them on the first island and headshot them as they spawned).

There is also the issue of the placement of the Pulse Gun and Shock Rifle which causes bots to get stuck, jumping up and down on them.

Are tentacles really appropriate in the building with the flies/gasbags on the 'Queen's Island' given that they are as likely to kill the flies/gasbags as anything else?
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Re: MH-AMC-Mesospheric

Postby sektor2111 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:31 pm

OjitroC wrote:Mantas - they seem to be placed facing away from the route that they are likely to be approached with the consequence that they only attack after being shot at (I was able to stand behind them on the first island and headshot them as they spawned).
Those have no skill... as people are not using good MH controllers...

Manta below...
Code: Select all
function PreBeginPlay()
{
   Super.PreBeginPlay();
   if ( skill <= 1 )
      Health = 0.6 * Health;
   if ( skill == 0 ) //LOL - MH won't do nothing for later spawned mantas
      AttitudeToPlayer = ATTITUDE_Ignore; //Ignoring me ? Epic... lol to those mushrooms...
}

OjitroC wrote:There is also the issue of the placement of the Pulse Gun and Shock Rifle which causes bots to get stuck, jumping up and down on them.
Moved already by MR. Builder.
OjitroC wrote:Are tentacles really appropriate in the building with the flies/gasbags on the 'Queen's Island' given that they are as likely to kill the flies/gasbags as anything else?
A.I tweaking won't allow too many rebels... Friends forever... In this map, any future version might have a full Monsters Soup and except accidental damage they won't react that much each-other. 2 actors are addressing A.I. sides (Monster and Bot), You won't have unarmed Skaarj - if you want some, etc.
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Re: MH-AMC-Mesospheric

Postby OjitroC » Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:00 pm

sektor2111 wrote: ... except accidental damage ...
It was that I was thinking about really. When the tentacles see players/bots and start firing they are likely to hit the gasbags and flies below them. I would suggest leaving the tentacles out and having more gasbags (if there's enough room) and/or flies.
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Re: MH-AMC-Mesospheric

Postby sektor2111 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:10 pm

If map has a high load, even Titans from that island might kill a lot of monsters, this is the reason for making MH maps with rooms and monsters organized because in a monsters soup they are forcing server with no purpose. Mutators are preventing kills but they are annoyed by damage, a tick is blocking their self fight and all that load... Gasbag attacked me but titan saved me so I said Thank you Kind Titan I'm appreciating you so I will kill you next... This is just MonsterHunt... which I play when I don't want to be defeated by MBots at 200 ms ping in a DM...

Here maybe some two Monsters here and there but stronger are a better option than 500 losers killing each-other or themselves by dodging to death - see my maps - max 32-50 Monsters at time or even less. Even for pupae, I spawn them with PrePivot adjusted, then more health, re-skinned, re-skilled, more sensitive at sight (not sightradius), more sensible at noise (an advanced Factory here). Such 4 Pupaes are more entertaining that 30 wick default ones good as a toilette paper because I cannot call that a challenge not even at 100 HP without regenerators and these won't load paths with default SpawnPoint.

Perhaps here I can speak about a default version and... whatever "lite" version making two things for different tastes... But I have a BIG problem: Death Zone is not for me, it's unfair (for monster because I'm not jumping there).

So far:
- A.I. tweaks are implemented;
- Factories are good as they are for preventing more Monster on Monster Kills - have slow spawn-rate;
- Tentacles have some dispersion projectiles;
- Krall0 will do also damage;
- Paths are ready except Playerstarts and SpawnPoints - they are in array but without reachFlags;
- items a bit relocated;
- diamond is... nice;
- Bots confirmed that map is ending correctly.

Questions:
Should I setup some party for preventing Manta to be retarded ? - simply screwing three lines or a single line in a self-map-tweaking actor
Code: Select all
class'manta'.default.skill = 3.000000;
class'cavemanta'.default.skill = 3.000000;
class'giantmanta'.default.skill = 3.000000;

or
Code: Select all
ConsoleCommand("SET MANTA SKILL 3.000000");

Should I use a KarmaHunter which I did for some other map where I got tired to run for killing monsters (no good visibility there) and and I allowed monsters to find me, I was Waiting together with Bots and Monsters Roaming to hunt us - It's another MonsterHunt definition which I found in some manuals... for maps with a decent number of creatures else... :satan:
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Re: MH-AMC-Mesospheric

Postby OjitroC » Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:45 pm

sektor2111 wrote: ... But I have a BIG problem: Death Zone is not for me, it's unfair (for monster because I'm not jumping there).
Personally, I wouldn't worry about that - it's a group of islands in the sky, you fall off, you die. It's as legitimate for a player to try to blow a monster off one of the islands to kill it as it would be in a map with lava to blow a monster into that lava. Players or bots can be blown or fall off the islands as well of course.
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Re: MH-AMC-Mesospheric

Postby papercoffee » Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:51 pm

Barbie wrote:
papercoffee wrote:Then can you explain this?
Yes: you have selected the file "BBoyShare.u" in Windows Explorer but UT is complaining not finding the file named "BBoyShares" (extension is not shown but is "u" probably).

Ugh... so I have to ad a "s" to play this map?

@OjitroC can you give me the working version you have ...I want to play-test it.
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Re: MH-AMC-Mesospheric

Postby sektor2111 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:54 pm

It's BBoyShars.u identical with file 177 kb BBoyShare.u from 2015. You can create the same copy... because I think You need Both of them.
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Re: MH-AMC-Mesospheric

Postby OjitroC » Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:39 pm

sektor2111 wrote: Should I setup some party for preventing Manta to be retarded ?
Yes, good idea.

sektor2111 wrote: Should I use a KarmaHunter which I did for some other map where I got tired to run for killing monsters (no good visibility there) and and I allowed monsters to find me, I was Waiting together with Bots and Monsters Roaming to hunt us
NO!!! - that won't fit at all well with the type of map this is, which is partly objective driven (it's a completely different kind of map to EG's DarkForest edit in which I assume you did a KarmaHunter?). In any case each island is small and it's not much effort to go and seek out the monsters, not that a lot of that needs to be done as it is. I can complete it in just over an hour by myself, with four bots it's much quicker.

sektor2111 wrote: ...because I think You need Both of them.
As a matter of interest, how come I can run the map without any of the BBoyShare variants?
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Re: MH-AMC-Mesospheric

Postby sektor2111 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:15 pm

Modified map won't have any longer any junk called BBoyShar.. That one will cause pain because not everyone can figure what's going on.
Edit:
Solved a bit Manta problem but engine is loaded here, so A.I. stimulus is a bit weak, but... Manta might attack a closer pawn on sight without shooting at it, or if pawn it's in combat with nearby monsters making noise around. At long distances will need additional support - "fake sensors".
Probably is OK as it is.
To mention: I did not touched geometry, I see a few not funny BSP cuts so I don't take any risk for ruining map.
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Re: MH-AMC-Mesospheric

Postby Barbie » Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:30 pm

OjitroC wrote:it's a group of islands in the sky, you fall off, you die.
That's ok, but there is a place where you can walk down the slope and then you die immediately without any hint or warning. That's annoying.

sektor2111 wrote:I did not touched geometry, I see a few not funny BSP cuts so I don't take any risk for ruining map.
I think at least the pillars can be changed to semi solid.
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Re: MH-AMC-Mesospheric

Postby sektor2111 » Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:31 am

Last time I changed those "isolated ones" with semsolids and map has started flickering because BSP cuts are doing funky builds... but maybe here and there some box can be changed... Else number of polygons in direct view is still "illegal"... and geometry could have a different concept - columns could be more simple but using the right texture for looking complex and fooling eye rather than loading polygons.

Edit: Network is Hitting
In first ON-Line testing I could see something (Not IntruDude garbages - now it's another un-animated class), that statue won't have the right frame into client for net play. So... I have to setup some net party again... because it has to be with hand holding the placard and not initial animation frame...

EDIT2: Examination at topic
Barbie wrote:I think at least the pillars can be changed to semi solid.
Umm, I think I might have some language barrier and that's why I'm asking: Is this that pillar that can be semisolid ?
Mesosph_ist_0.PNG
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Re: MH-AMC-Mesospheric

Postby sektor2111 » Wed Dec 19, 2018 5:55 pm

Bump: More tests operated...
Bot stuff in cause.
Items after opening so called "WayPoint-Pos-4" (which has been moved properly in desired area) movers open have destroyed items around in collision with them - so items have been relocated a bit - I did not check original map because it's a waste of time.
So - Position 4 has been moved down around triggering area else random failures might be expected. Useless trigger having no event has been removed, collisions adjusted around.

Semisolid here (only one) might do tiny little bits of flickering but not intensive, else monsters in this contest are looking a bit more sensitive than before - engine has the word here not me, else I could say more... Right now if I'm camping without helping Bots they might end map by themselves, I added uni-directional paths in missing spots and map should be normal. Original has 1279 actors (brushes included) - Edited Map has 960 actors (brushes included) - probably I'm under 1024...

Next stage is attacking AWC after finishing this AMC full testing/adjusting. I prefer this Level as Two versions because indeed are somehow different.

As a tech note: Brush making that "warp-tunnel" - a subtract - is creating a known-to-me BSP cut type (I saw these in my Godz map) - stupid crap because it's isolated as space - but this doesn't seems to mess up battle zone in a critical way, perhaps I will do a more detailed examination and moving that into another space for making BSP cuts out of any room in a total isolation.
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