KingJoshCity2 - Community Map

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KingJoshCity2 - Community Map

Postby KingJosh » Wed Nov 21, 2018 3:34 am

Hi all

Here is KingJoshCity2, the largest playable urban map for UT99. I included both a low grav and regular edition of the map. Map is fully bot pathed. It works great in OpenGL and software rendering mode. It doesn't work in the original Direct3d rendering mode. I haven't tested it in D3d9/10 but should be fine. KingJoshCity2 is better then the old KingJoshCity in many ways: much smaller download size, better layout and better lighting.

Everyone is free to edit/remix/re-release the map in any way that they see fit, without any need of contacting me. The only requirement is that your readme still contains proper credits to the texture creators such as FnB for example.

The map is fully pathed and perfectly playable offline and online (tested with JackGriffin server).

Some ideas of what this map be used for besides playing in stock form: Testing vehicle mods, testing Royale mods, testing redeemer mods, testing sniper mods and anything else you can think of that requires a GIANT map.

This map is not for the AMC contest because certain large sections of the map have been copied and pasted from some of my older 2010-2014 maps from my Unreal 1 inf maps that I made for the RedRum server.

DOWNLOAD AT MODDB HERE: https://www.moddb.com/games/unreal-tour ... gjoshcity2

VIDEO OF MAP HERE: https://streamable.com/s/fl33s/uhqhwg

KJC_Shot0008.jpg


KJC_Shot0007.jpg


KJC_Shot0004.jpg


This map is currently on Jack Griffin's test server. I really like his royale mod and it would be fun on this large map if we could get 16 players on there.
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Re: KingJoshCity2 - Community Map

Postby FraGnBraG » Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:01 am

Holy Crap that's huge! Kinda makes my huge space station thingy look kinda tiny :P

I would imagine the lighting and bot-pathing to be a bit difficult in there!? That's a LOT of surfaces :)

Definitely have to run around in this one :thuup:

Cheers :rock:
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Re: KingJoshCity2 - Community Map

Postby OjitroC » Wed Nov 21, 2018 2:31 pm

It's an amazing map - could spend hours playing it :gj:

For me it seems to work better with D3D9 because when using OpenGL I just started skating after ten minutes or so.

There are loads of lines like these in the log
Spoiler: show
DevPath: 1000 navigation nodes searched from PathNode1053!
DevPath: 1000 navigation nodes searched from PathNode741!
DevPath: 1000 navigation nodes searched from PathNode1498!
Log: Breadth path list overflow from PathNode1498
DevPath: 1000 navigation nodes searched from PathNode740!
DevPath: 1000 navigation nodes searched from PathNode740!
DevPath: 1000 navigation nodes searched from PathNode740!
DevPath: 1000 navigation nodes searched from PathNode1499!
DevPath: 1000 navigation nodes searched from PathNode738!
DevPath: 1000 navigation nodes searched from PathNode144!
DevPath: 1000 navigation nodes searched from PathNode143!
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Re: KingJoshCity2 - Community Map

Postby FraGnBraG » Wed Nov 21, 2018 3:42 pm

OjitroC wrote: ... There are loads of lines like these in the log [spoiler]DevPath: 1000 navigation nodes searched from PathNode1053! ...


This is the "killer" of large maps, where bot-play is concerned and potential to LAG out. You have to simplify/reduce the pathnode network (or just remove it and don't support bots)
or play the map for short periods offline only.

Weirdly, in CTF BigAndUgly I was getting tons of these messages in my unrealtournament.log file, but then reduced the path-nodes and routes to the point where the messages were completly gone.

A little while later, Jack reported the same CTF map was filling up his server's log with the same "1000 pathnodes" messages. I don't know why that would happen. I don't get those messages any more.

Mind you I am running plain UT (v436) and not a server. Perhaps engine is using different bot-code when running as a server? All I know is once there's a load on an affected map and sooner or later the
lagging and stuttering will start and get worse and the log gets hammered.

Jack - can you tell which map on the server produced the error messages ... maybe it was a map other than BigAndUgly?

Wondering...
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Re: KingJoshCity2 - Community Map

Postby JackGriffin » Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:59 pm

I have two instances in my logs from the last couple of weeks. The first is this one:
ScriptLog: Team 1
ScriptLog: Login: XXXX
Log: Possessed PlayerPawn: TMale2 DM-KingJoshCity2.TMale6
DevNet: Join succeeded: XXXX
DevNet: Connection timed out after 150.000000 seconds (150.026031)
NetComeGo: Close TcpipConnection33 11/18/18 08:21:56
DevNet: Connection timed out after 15.000000 seconds (15.058814)
NetComeGo: Close TcpipConnection31 11/18/18 08:27:44
DevPath: 1000 navigation nodes searched from PathNode389!
DevNet: NotifyAcceptingConnection: Server MyLevel accept


Which was a single entry and this one, which went on thousands of lines
ScriptLog: Team 1
ScriptLog: Login: XXXX
Log: Possessed PlayerPawn: TMale2 CTF-BigAndUgly-BETA1.TMale4
DevNet: Join succeeded: XXXX
swjumppad0: ERROR: Could not calculate JumpSpeed U=[kickout200] PN=[KingJosh] N=[swjumppad0] D=[swjumppad86]
swjumppad0: ERROR: Could not calculate JumpSpeed U=[kickout200] PN=[Dessloch] N=[swjumppad0] D=[swjumppad86]
DevPath: 1000 navigation nodes searched from DefensePoint7!
DevPath: 1000 navigation nodes searched from InventorySpot1215!
DevPath: 1000 navigation nodes searched from DefensePoint7!
DevPath: 1000 navigation nodes searched from InventorySpot1395!
DevPath: 1000 navigation nodes searched from DefensePoint7!


Oddly enough it was the same player. I'll ask them if it's OK to let you know who it was.
All mazes should have a minotaur.

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Re: KingJoshCity2 - Community Map

Postby FraGnBraG » Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:00 pm

I don't think a human player generates the path related messages, that would be from bots searching the network for something, right?

...maybe this particular issue of path-network/logs etc should move to another thread (so as to not hijack King Josh!)

EDIT: okay, sorry guys - yeah beta1 is borked for messages. I just compared bata1 and 2. beta2 is better, the map has no messages and is almost ready.
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Re: KingJoshCity2 - Community Map

Postby KingJosh » Thu Nov 22, 2018 8:14 am

FraGnBraG wrote:Holy Crap that's huge! Kinda makes my huge space station thingy look kinda tiny :P

I would imagine the lighting and bot-pathing to be a bit difficult in there!? That's a LOT of surfaces :)

Definitely have to run around in this one :thuup:

Cheers :rock:


The lighting wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. The bot-pathing was a nightmare. Initially I had 3,000 nodes and unreal ed refused to rebuild. It kept getting stuck at the 'cleaning up stage'. I deleted all 3k nodes and started from scratch, it has a little under 2,200 nodes currently. When I add additional nodes to current 2157 nodes it can rebuild but then UED crashes when I try to save the map after the rebuild. To have the full paths that I wanted, it would require the initial full amount of around 3,000 nodes. I ended up giving up and just being grateful that UED was merciful enough to allow the 2,157 nodes to build the paths without erroring the editor. The 65k map node limit used to be my number one enemy, now its the bot pathing

:loool:
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Re: KingJoshCity2 - Community Map

Postby JackGriffin » Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:37 pm

This map is really, really well done. When the contest is over and things get back to normal I'm going to write a small mutator to run with the map so that additional decorations are placed without a need to rebuild the map. It's obviously pushing the limits of ed so what I'm going to do won't need editor at all.

Also this map is so big you shouldn't path it all the way around. The bots don't need to cross the entire map. If you go back into editing this you should path the areas around the playerstarts thoroughly but not worry so much about joining them into a single network. As long as bots have access to weapons and pickups it's fine to let them stay within a map section. They will still have a large area to roam.
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Re: KingJoshCity2 - Community Map

Postby Red_Fist » Thu Nov 22, 2018 7:12 pm

Well you could path long runs with lift exit-centers and a few nodes so the bots won't hang out looking stupid. Or just get lost
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Re: KingJoshCity2 - Community Map

Postby sektor2111 » Thu Nov 22, 2018 8:34 pm

FraGnBraG wrote:I don't think a human player generates the path related messages, that would be from bots searching the network for something, right?
Try me in a 436 server, I can even crash server if I want, and you might think how this goes... Give me a map with warp-zones and say a pray (like when Nali is mooing at walls :lol: ). For you people... ANY PAWN in UT436 can be a paths seeker and server-crusher, that simple.
More hints for causing spam ? Seeking paths in big maps during a falling state - smile or cry because I'm going to laugh a little bit :P .

Another problem: In big maps with some plain large areas you can use some triggering systems for not losing Bots out of Network - that's why I did NoLost Actor. The rest of a crap-ton of Inventoryspot actors can be removed using XC_PathsBuilder. You people do have resources but you are not using them, it's your loss.

Aside for the KingJosh - the main big mistake which you are IGNORING is adding Pathnode nearby Vials and other Pickups - ALL of such nodes are entirely USELESS. Vials are heading to InventorySpot actor which can easily substitute a PathNode - Polge said - and it's True. Do check this using debugging stuff <RememberSpot ShowPath>. This is definitely a reason for me to not use such spam maps.

@RedFist: New Navigation Actors won't solve problems caused by an Over-Pathing Spree. A trigger does the task properly - See that GardenOfDeath with "paths", Bot might hunt to the end without a single path :lol2: .

Arguments for hunting an enemy 10 minutes rather than fast killing ? NONE arguments...
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Re: KingJoshCity2 - Community Map

Postby Red_Fist » Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:27 am

I disagree, this is a perfect map for using lift exits and centers since there is basically one line long paths which will be as much accuracy as all those nodes. Then you would need nodes for offshoots because bots can still get stupid if they go off that one path. But for the majority of the map you could drop the nodes by half and have it work the same as it would right now, hell maybe even 3/4 of the nodes or more could be dropped. Plus right now the path nodes don't have to be that close to get a path.

What I would do is make it a hunt and search map, set keys, as small movers, and you have to find them all before the exit opens. toss in some creature factories for some MH action as you look for the keys. And those small movers wouldn't give that flicker problem, put like 64 keys in there.

And use distance view triggers for snipers all over the place, be a killer game-map.
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Re: KingJoshCity2 - Community Map

Postby sektor2111 » Fri Nov 23, 2018 3:18 pm

Red_Fist wrote:I disagree, this is a perfect map for using lift exits and centers since there is basically one line long paths which will be as much accuracy as all those nodes.
Still disagree with you too and I'll explain why in simple terms as possible. Pawn seeker will gain access to paths in around 800 UU range in normal mapping - Polge capped this because it's very expensive. If you have a large area you can dream at that LiftCenter etc because nothing will move Pawn nowhere. For Bot, NoLost actor might be done configurable and will debate ALL such areas if Bot is far from paths over 750 UU. This actor will trigger Bot to move at a nearest node in a predefined or hard-coded range even 3000-5000 units saving more such navigation combos and decreasing iterations very useful in big maps with thousands of actors. Also when Bot goes nasty in water, swimming is granted forced in order to unlock dumb behavior, there are more issues to solve at Bot and I assure you that such an actor will except another load for no purpose. I wouldn't talk if I wouldn't have evidences about what I'm saying.
Red_Fist wrote: hell maybe even 3/4 of the nodes or more could be dropped. Plus right now the path nodes don't have to be that close to get a path.
This is NO Go by default, If pawn is engaged in fight between spots losing MoveTarget between these two points very far from them and even out of visibility will wander there for a while being useless, actually you are not saving nothing, you just make stuff worst. Once again Removing InventorySpot actors added for no purpose + a helper are way more useful than any stock soup. 3 4 nodes might be 2500 range if paths are properly set, in the middle, accessing network will be None, do check these like I said with Rememberspot and ShowPath, try to find a path from 900 UU and tell me what you get... even some tutorials weren't recommending such practices toward Liftcenter and Co... Experimental environment: a modified SkaarjTower map - recovering Bot from large water zones after fall... Tested and working, NoLost has recovered every single Bot from that lake without any closer path.

And for these big maps, pathing only a few spots is pointless, I would do map smaller because a bigger one is not helping anybody.
What I'm saying it's not a must-be or must-have, I was only sharing my solutions as long as I could do these properly. Of course in MH stuff which I did Bot is unlocked at more than 3000 UU and even MBot can do this natively but not default Bot. So it's a long chat here, I can draw some environment for you to setup and to check pointing spots and you'll figure that Bot Needs a POINT as a MoveTarget not a path-line, path-line shown in Editor means a link of those two nodes not a MoveTarget direction, their goal it's a Navigation actor not an imaginary line even if they are moving among that line. Definitely I have to chat more with you about BlockedPath as well and how does it work because I'm not sure if you understand that.

The other note: navigation can work combined with a zone - custom things here. Zone might have simple paths but iterating through zone actors if has a Pawn lost, pushing it in a traceable navigable spot... solutions are lot preventing to be added not only 3 4 nodes, you can save MORE than that. Each map can be customized on its own way for making all A.I. good, it's only a matter of motivation and hobby.
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Re: KingJoshCity2 - Community Map

Postby Red_Fist » Fri Nov 23, 2018 5:37 pm

I do agree that the size is overkill here, just have lots of wondering bots, I had trouble on smaller areas, bots just don't see, don't know, other than animations looking lost, homeless. :lol: Not even including server problems.
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